Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: TechMan on February 21, 2012, 01:11:49 PM
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http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2012/02/21/adults-bully-adults-in-workplace-what-to-do/ (http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2012/02/21/adults-bully-adults-in-workplace-what-to-do/)
Workplace bullying is defined as repeated mistreatment of an individual employee by a person or group that takes the form of verbal abuse, behavior that is humiliating, threatening, intimidating or sabotages the targeted person’s work, according to the Workplace Bullying Institute (WBI).
Bullying plays out in the workplace in many ways, according to the survey:
43% of workers say their comments were dismissed or not acknowledged
40% claim they were falsely accused of mistakes
38% say they were harshly criticized
38% report they were forced into doing work that really wasn’t their job
37% claim standards and policies applied to them were not used on others
A little more than 30% say they were given “mean looks” and 27% report colleagues gossiped about them. Still others, 24%, say their bosses yelled at them in front of coworkers.
Ah the everybody gets a trophy has now entered the workplace.
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One thing I have noticed about "bullying" in the schools recently is that "bullying" has become left-wing code for "being made fun of because he declares he's gay in front of the whole school and makes a big nuisance of himself by acting like an ass."
As far as "bullying in the workplace," man up and grow a pair. I think that these folks could use a year or two in the Army or USMC to get some perspective.
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I wonder if it would be OK to fire someone if you didn't give them a "mean look" or criticize them? Next thing you know OSHA will require a box of kleenex in every room as PPE.
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Seems to me that the term "bullying" is being used to include BS "it hurt my FEELINGS" stuff in with actually abuse.
Basically, it's confusing actual abusive behavior with stupid petty crap people need to learn to ignore.
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As far as "bullying in the workplace," man up and grow a pair. I think that these folks could use a year or two in the Army or USMC to get some perspective.
Have one guy at work that I think is trying to be one. Guy works out a lot, and I believe thinks he is still in HS by insulting the nerd. It is hard work not to start giggling and to instead maintain a straight face. Coworkers mostly try not to facepalm.
I obviously don't talk to the guy, and most of the coworkers don't either. A fair percentage of the coworkers have caught onto the whole "Rev ain't quite right" vibes, but I keep their internet working, so they're mostly happy with me. It may be telling that not a single coworker has clued the guy in. I suspect because there may be a betting pool involved.
I have known office bully types over the years. Decent managers either can them, or isolate them if they're actually good at what they do. Clueless managers think avoiding the situation will magically solve the problem. In the meantime, team dynamics tend to get screwed up.
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Have one guy at work that I think is trying to be one. Guy works out a lot, and I believe thinks he is still in HS by insulting the nerd. It is hard work not to start giggling and to instead maintain a straight face. Coworkers mostly try not to facepalm.
I obviously don't talk to the guy, and most of the coworkers don't either. A fair percentage of the coworkers have caught onto the whole "Rev ain't quite right" vibes, but I keep their internet working, so they're mostly happy with me. It may be telling that not a single coworker has clued the guy in. I suspect because there may be a betting pool involved.
How would one get in on this action? I could use some easy money
=D
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I never thought of workplace problems as "bullying" but I guess these days it fits. As far as I'm concerned, it's just something to ignore unless it comes from one's own management - bad behavior there that I rarely saw when I first entered the workforce has become much more common.
Beyond that, I'll just say that my workplace is beginning to look more and more like the one Dilbert works in every day . . . but with short-tempered managers that don't have quite the intellectual capacity of Dilbert's PHB.
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While easy money would be nice, I would like to be the guy filming it when Rev's co-worker earns he has messed with the wrong geek. [popcorn]
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While easy money would be nice, I would like to be the guy filming it when Rev's co-worker earns he has messed with the wrong geek. [popcorn]
I'm betting Rev will make him cry, and watching a grown man blubber makes me cringe.
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Yes. There are workplace bullies. Should the state deal with it? No, unless there's actual physical violence or threats thereof. Next question?
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While easy money would be nice, I would like to be the guy filming it when Rev's co-worker earns he has messed with the wrong geek. [popcorn]
"...
Piss him off, and you'll be fired by tomorrow morning
'Cause he's the one that knows you've been surfin' porn!"
---The Sysadmin Song (http://www.deadtroll.com/index2.html?/sysadmin/~content)
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I detest bullies.
I was "the new kid" 7 times by the time I started 8th grade. I had experienced some degree of bullying as a youth.
From the one on one @sshole that had to try me on to the 7-8 @ssholes all at once that may well have caused me serious injury if it hadn't been broken up. at one school That sort of attack went on on a weekly basis, sometimes several times a week I did learn to defend myself more or less effectively by trial and error. The folks wouldn't couldn't accept that I wasn't somehow starting it.
The last school I had a problem with it lasted about 7 weeks into my eighth grade year, I had walked away from a numerous attempts to draw me out but one fellow decided to take it from simple antagonizing to full on attack, local tough guy, farm boy, strong as an ox. I'd had enough and kind of made short work of it. I don't think he'd ever been in a real street fight.
We are very good friends to this day
Actually had a guy at my current job thought thought he was gonna get his bluff in on me and tried to intimidate with with some veiled threats of violence. My supervisor at the time was also a former sub sailor, I talked to him about it and he told was also aware of the jerks mode of operation but hadn't gotten anything solid enough to discipline him but if I felt threatened I could deal with it up to and including defending myself physically.
We got assigned to work stripping a disused wire frame down n the sub-basement soon after that talk.
The young man learned a few new words, new ways to use them and learned that ex-navy sub sailors didn't take well to bullying. Never even suggested I would lay a finger on him but I did have him in tears.
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I did have him in tears.
that can be a life changing event for a young feller.
they learn about a new facet of life
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The problem I see with all these "specialty laws" Bullying, Hate Crime, etc...is that there are rules/laws already in place that cover most abuses.
That said, there are circumstances that are unique. When I was in school I took a job in a large corporate mail room on third shift. I was one of two white guys out of about 50 employees that worked in, or with, the operations group...the rest were black. While the vast majority of them were great to work with, it was very common to hear derogatory racial comments from a a half dozen or so employees (white people this....white people that)...and these were ignored by the rest. I really didn't give a crap, and ignored them, knowing that I'd graduate and be out of there in a few years. But I can understand how someone who really depends on the job/income long term can get in a situation that causes them to either endure the "bullying" or find a new job, which isn't always an option in some circumstances. And unlike the Marines, or High School, you can't fight your way through your problems.
Again, that is already covered by HR policy...but sometimes things just escalate after a report is made to HR (or a school administration) and perhaps this is an attempt to put some teeth in those rules. Generally sounds like unenforceable BS though.
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Workplace bullying is defined as repeated mistreatment of an individual employee by a person or group that takes the form of verbal abuse, behavior that is humiliating, threatening, intimidating or sabotages the targeted person’s work, according to the Workplace Bullying Institute (WBI).
Bullying plays out in the workplace in many ways, according to the survey:
43% of workers say their comments were dismissed or not acknowledged
40% claim they were falsely accused of mistakes
38% say they were harshly criticized
38% report they were forced into doing work that really wasn’t their job
37% claim standards and policies applied to them were not used on others
A little more than 30% say they were given “mean looks” and 27% report colleagues gossiped about them. Still others, 24%, say their bosses yelled at them in front of coworkers.
I just realized what I found so silly about that entire list: It assumes that the employer owes the employee a stress free workplace where even incompetent work is rewarded instead of critiqued.
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While easy money would be nice, I would like to be the guy filming it when Rev's co-worker earns he has messed with the wrong geek. [popcorn]
I've used the line "Wow, I never figured you for the kind of guy who would send such a nasty email to the CEO." Then waited for the light to come on.
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I just realized what I found so silly about that entire list: It assumes that the employer owes the employee a stress free workplace where even incompetent work is rewarded instead of critiqued.
There are a few real issues in that list, most of which, I beleive, would be covered by laws already in place.
Everyone has interactions with their coworkers and bosses that are not pleasent.
I would bet a former emplyee at my own work place would accuse my bosses of bullying. She happens to be an adict who blames everything wrong with her life on anyone but her, and does really stupid things on a regular basis. Which was why she was treated the way she was, and why she was eventually fired.
On the other hand, my ex quit a good job after sucking it up for three months with a supervisor who gained his attention by saying "hey, dumbass" on a regular basis.
I can tell you right now, I wouldn't have lasted three months with that.
However, since my ex is a dumbass, he didn't attempt to find out if he had options other then quiting, like going to someone over the abusive supervisors head.
Which works sometimes. Doesn't work other times.
and when it doesn't work, well, that sucks but that's life, buttercup. Suck it up and move on.
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She happens to be an adict who blames everything wrong with her life on anyone but her, and does really stupid things on a regular basis. Which was why she was treated the way she was, and why she was eventually fired.
you possess insight and wisdom she would run from if it arrived to her on a silver platter. its a shame when good bosses try to make accommodation for fools that don't appreciate it
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She happens to be an adict who blames everything wrong with her life on anyone but her, and does really stupid things on a regular basis. Which was why she was treated the way she was, and why she was eventually fired.
you possess insight and wisdom she would run from if it arrived to her on a silver platter. its a shame when good bosses try to make accommodation for fools that don't appreciate it
I had become close to her over the years. I ended up telling her off and kicking her out of my life because of her behavior towards them.
They bent over backwards to help her, and she turned around and trashed talked them.
I wish beating the stupid out of people was legal. :mad:
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you did her a favor telling her off. folks like her are passive aggressive bullies. i remember your description of her too well. folks like her make bosses reluctant to help the next person trying to turn their life around.
i'm outa patience with addicts right now
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>"being made fun of because he declares he's gay in front of the whole school and makes a big nuisance of himself by acting like an ass." <
Yep... coming out of the closet, followed by having your junk grabbed violently in the hallway by a jock, is "acting like an ass"... :facepalm:
Seriously though, a LOT of what is termed "bullying" can be handled wither by laws already in place (in the above case, "sexual assault"), or a simple old-fashioned confrontation (ala Rev's "problem child").
Unfortunately, so much is now considered "bullying", that actual problems are cheapened. Kinda like false reports lessen the response to actual cases of sexual assault...
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In the school context even simple emotional bullying (especially in early age, less so with later years) can be very harmful and vicious - remember that the children and adolescents involved have no way to leave. In the real world we are all free to quit our jobs if the people around us are a-holes. Not so with schools.
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I'm betting Rev will make him cry, and watching a grown man blubber makes me cringe.
Making bullies cry always makes me happy.
Russ
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In the school context even simple emotional bullying (especially in early age, less so with later years) can be very harmful and vicious - remember that the children and adolescents involved have no way to leave. In the real world we are all free to quit our jobs if the people around us are a-holes. Not so with schools.
While, on the most part I do agree with you, not all adults are in a position to leave their jobs due to being bullied.
While I don't think there should be a law regarding workplace bullying, I would hope a majority of businesses would prevent bully type behavior. It is one of those things that just makes sense. Confrontational workplaces cut down on productivity.
Making bullies cry always makes me happy.
Russ
You have a stronger stomach then I, my friend.
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In the school context even simple emotional bullying (especially in early age, less so with later years) can be very harmful and vicious - remember that the children and adolescents involved have no way to leave. In the real world we are all free to quit our jobs if the people around us are a-holes. Not so with schools.
Being "free" to leave a job may not be an option for many folks. A lot of jerks know that, and that's why they act they way they do. Their bad behavior probably starts because of power and control issues. For many people in this economy (and any economy in some geographical areas) it's a choice between providing for oneself and family, being on welfare, or being homeless. There is a choice o relocate - but that may not be feasible for people who are too poor, or who care for extended family locally.
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While, on the most part I do agree with you, not all adults are in a position to leave their jobs due to being bullied.
While I don't think there should be a law regarding workplace bullying, I would hope a majority of businesses would prevent bully type behavior. It is one of those things that just makes sense. Confrontational workplaces cut down on productivity.
This is of course true.
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In the school context even simple emotional bullying (especially in early age, less so with later years) can be very harmful and vicious - remember that the children and adolescents involved have no way to leave. In the real world we are all free to quit our jobs if the people around us are a-holes. Not so with schools.
Actually not so. What with the plethora of lawsuits that have been filed, schools are not well on judicial notice that they must do "something" about each case of bullying that is reported to them. Repeated reports of bullying pretty much mean moving at least one of the kids at least out of the classroom, if not out of the school. Kids who are the subject of multiple bullying reports can look forward to being assigned to "alternative education programs". The biggest problem is that parents will not stand up and demand action from the schools and the juvenile justice [/ maniacal laughter] system, as well as searching out tile-crawlers who will file damage suits against the schools.
While, on the most part I do agree with you, not all adults are in a position to leave their jobs due to being bullied.
Agaihn, not quite so. Thanks to the courts, you can quit and not only get unemployment but win law suits for being the victim of adverse/hostile work environment.
I'm not suggesting that those are "the" answers to all situations. But if you try all the other ways of dealing with the situation - short of committing a violent crime yourself - and can't resolve the issue, the avenues are open to be used.
stay safe.
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Ah the everybody gets a trophy has now entered the workplace.
It arrived at least 25 years ago.
I had one of the guys I supervised come into my office and go on a screaming (literally) rampage at me ... because I didn't thank him for doing his job. This was a guy who had previously worked in a union position for a large defense contractor. He was the living, breathing embodiment of the union mentality -- never arrived at work more than 30 seconds early, always had his coat on and was ready to be out the door at 5:00 sharp. His work wasn't horrible, but he was a cross-trainee from a different type of work so his work wasn't especially good, either, and he wasn't trying terribly hard to catch up to the people who knew what they were doing.
He honestly believed that I should give him special recognition for being a 9-to-5'er doing barely acceptable work at a barely tolerable rate of production.
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Actually not so. What with the plethora of lawsuits that have been filed, schools are not well on judicial notice that they must do "something" about each case of bullying that is reported to them.
That's certainly a good thing to know. Although I imagine it can also lean the otherway, with students being subject to unfair punishments.
It's not really clear how one can well resolve these issues.
But declaring "they should just toughen up" and ignoring them is not the answer, neither "purge the unclean" and punishing anything looking remotely suspicious.
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It arrived at least 25 years ago.
I had one of the guys I supervised come into my office and go on a screaming (literally) rampage at me ... because I didn't thank him for doing his job. This was a guy who had previously worked in a union position for a large defense contractor. He was the living, breathing embodiment of the union mentality -- never arrived at work more than 30 seconds early, always had his coat on and was ready to be out the door at 5:00 sharp. His work wasn't horrible, but he was a cross-trainee from a different type of work so his work wasn't especially good, either, and he wasn't trying terribly hard to catch up to the people who knew what they were doing.
He honestly believed that I should give him special recognition for being a 9-to-5'er doing barely acceptable work at a barely tolerable rate of production.
i dearly wish i could assure you he was an anomaly.
i can't
i recently set a kid (30 something with 2 daughters one 6 one 14 who lives at home and can't seem to find steady work) up with a job. was one days pay for 1/2 days work about one mile from his house. job could lead to full time work. no call no show. his truck has been broke 3 months and his ride didn't show. hes got a high dollar mountain bike that he posts vids on you tube from his helmet cam of his 20 mile rides but he "couldn't get motivated, it was so cold" he did get motivated to have a g/f drive up from charlottesville and go down there to play house for the weekend. he manages to pay his child support most months and when he can't his mom bails him out
he can do a real good days work when he wants to
he never wants to for more than 3 days straight by which time he expects his talents to be recognized and be promoted to an executive position
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YoSafBridg was a victim, too.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/21/christina-hendricks-talks-childhood-being-bullied-high-school_n_1291650.html?ir=Style
She may be walking the red carpet with the in-crowd now, but that wasn't always the case for Christina Hendricks. Esquire's 2010 "sexiest woman alive" confesses she was once a tortured high school student, who was spat on in her Virginia school's hallways.
I guess there is a lesson to be learned. No, seriously, read the whole thing to see what she has to say about bullies and being bullied. Plus, for the guys, there are pictures. (Did you expect anything less from AOLHuffington Post?)
stay safe.
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In the real world we are all free to quit our jobs if the people around us are a-holes.
Not all of us are in a position to quit our jobs because our boss is a-hole.
While some of us do try to fight back by sticking up for ourselves or for our coworkers, it can backfire on us, or at least, it does in my work environment. Even if we are right in our point and have the policy in hand to prove our point, two of my managers will say we are still wrong. They are also fond of using everyone's "favorite" motivational technique, being yelled at or called stupid in front of customers. Several of us have even called HR on both our GM and SM because of the way they deal with us, but no luck actually in results, yet. So for those of us that have had enough, it's keep looking for a new job and deal with the two "managers" until something comes up.
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I guess there is a lesson to be learned. No, seriously, read the whole thing to see what she has to say about bullies and being bullied. Plus, for the guys, there are pictures. (Did you expect anything less from AOLHuffington Post?)
Lesson learned is careful who you look down on. Never know when it will bite you on the rear. I go out of my way to treat what many consider to be "menial" persons as friggin people. It has paid off so many times it's not even funny.
Yea, I remember that environment that Hendricks described. Columbine happened when I was in school. I remember the reaction, the administration went into a panic that goth kids might hurt jocks, instead of the other way around. HS football was probably the most important part of "education" to the majority of parents.
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Workplace bullying and unions go hand in hand. I was physically assaulted at a union event in '00 for daring to wear a hat with the employer's logo on it.....
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A few years ago I worked for a privately owned company in a fairly high level position. Seemed like a good job - decent salary, benefits, in an industry I enjoyed. But my second week on the job, the owner walked into my office and yelled at me, to the point veins were standing up on his forehead, about an improperly put together order that had gone out to one of his clients. I don't mind covering for the fact that you're a lazy, inept, idiot but I have to know that it's expected of me, and I didn't. But rather than saying, "Hey, this shouldn't happen, we need to do something to prevent it. Amy, fix this please," he yelled at me. I was so stunned I honestly didn't know how to react. I stood there looking at him until he stomped out of my office. Within minutes half a dozen people popped in to tell me to suck it up and keep going because that's just how things were. Really? You can walk into my office and totally *expletive deleted*ck up my day over something I had no hand in and that's just how it is?
The second time it happened I looked him in the eye and told him to get out of my office until he could speak civilly. He was so stunned he actually did it. The third time it happened, I had a pencil in my hand and held it up as if I were gesturing and as I walked toward him slightly jabbing it toward his face, I said, "You. Will. Not. Speak. To. Me. Like. That." By the time I got to "me" he was gone. He never yelled at me again, but instead switched to passive aggressive tactics which were worse because I couldn't really call him on anything specific, I could only avoid being in situations where he could use his tactics. Like rearranging my office so there was no way he could get between me and the door and always finding a reason someone else had to be present during meetings.
I couldn't leave - I had three kids and a husband so support. But when I was finally able to give notice, I had a ball with it. When he'd stage one of his little displays or attack a co-worker, I'd make very direct comments, like, "If you have a stroke, can we go home early?" Or, "When you're finished screaming, do you suppose we could discuss this rationally and actually solve the problem?" The look on his face, that I would DARE to stand up to him, was priceless.
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The funny thing about bosses bullying is that it really bites them on the ass.
My bosses do thank me for doing my job. When I leave in the afternoon one of them will say "thank you, liz. Have a good afternoon."
Then when I do stuff above and beyond my job, they really thank me, and often give me other rewards.
The thing is, I almost always am availble to do extras and if they call me, I go in unless it really is impossible (like i've been at the ER with dad all night) and I do work harder because of their obvious gratatude.
It can literally pay to be nice.
I've also noticed they get more cranky when we have a screw up employee, and anyones bad attitude can screw up everyone else.
Considering some of the stupid I've seen in the workforce, I can understand why some bosses get nasty. While it doesn't excuse that behavior, it does explain it.
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instead switched to passive aggressive tactics which were worse because I couldn't really call him on anything specific ....
Yes, documentation is key to convincing higher-ups and folks in EEOC/Worker's Comp/Unemployment that youu have an actual case. For those that have not yet looked at it, see if your state allows one-party consent for audio recording. If so, invest between $30 and $50 in a digital audio recorder and turn it on when you hit the parking lot in the morning and off when you get home. Erasing a day of drudgery is not difficult, and uploading the file that just happens to contain those 30 seconds of hell is priceless.
Between HR and your attorney who is dealing with the fact that folks within 3 miles heard the berating you were subjected to, or that the supposedly subtle passive-aggressive dig tossed towards you overstepped the allowable boundaries, it's difficult to refute your own words in your own voice.
I really do believe that bullyng ought to, in the best of circumstances, be handled privately by the person on the receiving end convincing the bully by legal and non-violent means that it is in their best interest to cease the behavior. But I am aware that often either the individual does not posses the skills, the courage, or the ability to accomplish that on their own. Thus, I fully endorse using all of the techniques and tactics out there to both level the playing field and remedy the situation.
stay safe.