Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on May 23, 2007, 09:22:25 AM
Police Raid Lingerie Shop
Quote
LUBBOCK, TX -- An obscure law sends one local lingerie store clerk to jail. And now she may forever have to register as a sex offender.
The lingerie store, Somethin Sexy was raided by police last week for violating Lubbock`s sexually oriented business ordinance.
"I feel like I`m in 1690 Salem, Massachusetts and we`re looking for a witch to burn" says the stores owner.
The witch: the owner of Somethin Sexy. He`s speaking out about the raid of his shop and the arrest of his employee. Now, if convicted, the clerk will have to register as a sex offender.
"I think it`s ridiculous. She`s not a sex offender, she was selling something that I had instructed them it was ok to sell, I think it`s ridiculous" he says.
Earlier this month, four officers raided the shop, confiscating several toys deemed to be illegal by the Texas penal code. The code states "a person who possesses six or more obscene devices is presumed to possess them with intent to promote the same." In other words, intent to sell.
But if this is a state law, how do other Texas cities match up?
"We went to several places in Dallas where the merchandise that was deemed obscene here they have in open view on the shelves. Lubbock seems to be taking the most hard line approach that we`ve seen anywhere in Texas" says the owner.
He says not only did he keep the devices out of view, but he says there`s a huge demand for these products.
"We kept it in a closed cabinet, we did not promote it. If someone asked, then we showed them the merchandise. Our guest book, we`ve had over 1500 people sign up to receive emails and mail outs" he says.
The store is still open and the owner says hes playing by the rules.
"We`ll sell everything that`s legal" he says.
The Lubbock Assistant District Attorney couldn`t speak specifically about this case, but did speak to us in general about obscenity laws and what the definition of obscene is in Lubbock.
"If they tell them this is a candle put in on the birthday cake this is a novelty if they tell you to use it to enjoy sexual gratification, its no longer a candle on the birthday cake" says Assistant D.A. John Grace.
Whats illegal and whats not when it comes to sexual devices comes down to marketing and intentions.
"If the seller is selling it as a novelty and the buyer is buying it as a novelty to make fun of, then it probably has not reached the level of an obscenity" says Grace.
According to state law, its illegal to sell obscene devices with the intention of sexual gratification. But what is an obscene device and who`s going to be the judge of that?
"Whats considered obscene in LA is different than Lubbock and different than Des Moines. The community ultimately decides what is obscene" says Grace.
He says obscenity laws have been on the books as long as they`ve had books as a way of protecting the community from what he calls the secondary effects of obscenity which are child pornography, money laundering and prostitution.
He says its not the D.A.s job to decide whether a law is fair or not but it is their job to enforce it. And if the citizens have a problem with that, its their job to take it to the Texas legislature.
"As a voter and a taxpayer, if you think the law is not fair, thats what democracy is all about. Go talk to your congressman and see if you can get the law changed" says Grace.
The lingerie store, Somethin Sexy was raided by police last week for violating Lubbock`s sexually oriented business ordinance.
"I feel like I`m in 1690 Salem, Massachusetts and we`re looking for a witch to burn" says the stores owner.
The witch: the owner of Somethin Sexy. He`s speaking out about the raid of his shop and the arrest of his employee. Now, if convicted, the clerk will have to register as a sex offender.
"I think it`s ridiculous. She`s not a sex offender, she was selling something that I had instructed them it was ok to sell, I think it`s ridiculous" he says.
Earlier this month, four officers raided the shop, confiscating several toys deemed to be illegal by the Texas penal code. The code states "a person who possesses six or more obscene devices is presumed to possess them with intent to promote the same." In other words, intent to sell.
But if this is a state law, how do other Texas cities match up?
"We went to several places in Dallas where the merchandise that was deemed obscene here they have in open view on the shelves. Lubbock seems to be taking the most hard line approach that we`ve seen anywhere in Texas" says the owner.
He says not only did he keep the devices out of view, but he says there`s a huge demand for these products.
"We kept it in a closed cabinet, we did not promote it. If someone asked, then we showed them the merchandise. Our guest book, we`ve had over 1500 people sign up to receive emails and mail outs" he says.
The store is still open and the owner says hes playing by the rules.
"We`ll sell everything that`s legal" he says.
The Lubbock Assistant District Attorney couldn`t speak specifically about this case, but did speak to us in general about obscenity laws and what the definition of obscene is in Lubbock.
"If they tell them this is a candle put in on the birthday cake this is a novelty if they tell you to use it to enjoy sexual gratification, its no longer a candle on the birthday cake" says Assistant D.A. John Grace.
Whats illegal and whats not when it comes to sexual devices comes down to marketing and intentions.
"If the seller is selling it as a novelty and the buyer is buying it as a novelty to make fun of, then it probably has not reached the level of an obscenity" says Grace.
According to state law, its illegal to sell obscene devices with the intention of sexual gratification. But what is an obscene device and who`s going to be the judge of that?
"Whats considered obscene in LA is different than Lubbock and different than Des Moines. The community ultimately decides what is obscene" says Grace.
He says obscenity laws have been on the books as long as they`ve had books as a way of protecting the community from what he calls the secondary effects of obscenity which are child pornography, money laundering and prostitution.
He says its not the D.A.s job to decide whether a law is fair or not but it is their job to enforce it. And if the citizens have a problem with that, its their job to take it to the Texas legislature.
"As a voter and a taxpayer, if you think the law is not fair, thats what democracy is all about. Go talk to your congressman and see if you can get the law changed" says Grace.
Post by: Manedwolf on May 23, 2007, 09:26:05 AM
Quote
four officers raided the shop, confiscating several toys deemed to be illegal by the Texas penal code.
/NO COMMENT POSSIBLE
Post by: charby on May 23, 2007, 10:15:36 AM
Post by: crt360 on May 23, 2007, 10:21:04 AM
http://tinyurl.com/2q7r8s
Police Raid Lingerie Shop
Police Raid Lingerie Shop
Quote
He says obscenity laws have been on the books as long as they`ve had books as a way of protecting the community from what he calls the secondary effects of obscenity which are child pornography, money laundering and prostitution.
I always thought the primary secondary effect of obscenity was children.
Post by: Manedwolf on May 23, 2007, 10:23:04 AM
http://tinyurl.com/2q7r8s
Police Raid Lingerie Shop
Police Raid Lingerie Shop
Quote
He says obscenity laws have been on the books as long as they`ve had books as a way of protecting the community from what he calls the secondary effects of obscenity which are child pornography, money laundering and prostitution.
I always thought the primary secondary effect of obscenity was children.
Well, there was that bumper sticker I saw..."Don't Drink And Park, Accidents Cause People".
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 23, 2007, 10:47:16 AM
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"I feel like I`m in 1690 Salem, Massachusetts and we`re looking for a witch to burn" says the stores owner.
Drama queen.
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on May 23, 2007, 10:51:58 AM
Post by: HankB on May 23, 2007, 11:13:45 AM
(Plus, it's safer than raiding a crack house or meth lab.)
Post by: Tallpine on May 23, 2007, 11:16:34 AM
Post by: Brad Johnson on May 23, 2007, 11:24:17 AM
Quote
No, she's just about right.
No, she's exactly right. Remember that these are the same people who arrested a bunch of Chippendale dancers a few months ago, going so far as to put them in leg irons.
Our city government has become obsessed with being the morality police. This latest eye-roller is in addition to the Chippendales fiasco, and shutting down all the sexually oriented businesses (aka strip clubs) on even the most minute technicality in their permit applications. By the way, the video taped "evidence" the police submitted for proscecution in the Chippendales case was released recently. It is so laughably devoid of any actual violations that I wish the Chippendales organization really had taken the city to court over it, if for no other reason than the negative publicity and to wipe their officious noses in it.
This is also the same city government that has been beating us over the head with red-light cameras. They have endlessly claimed the cameras are there "for safety", only to change the light locations at the last minute "because studies have shown that the intersections in question do not have enough violations for the cameras to be economically viable". (a direct quote from both the city trafic engineer and one of our illustrious city councilpersons).
The most unfortunate part about this whole deal is the store clerk that was arrested. If convicted on the charges they are trying for, the clerk would be forever branded as a sex offender. A lifetime of derision, persecution, and ridicule for someone who is guilty of simply showing up for work, and city doesn't care (see assistant DA's comments in story above). I guess as long as they prosecute someone they feel like they've done their job.
Brad
Post by: Manedwolf on May 23, 2007, 11:56:45 AM
Quote
No, she's just about right.
No, she's exactly right. Remember that these are the same people who arrested a bunch of Chippendale dancers a few months ago, going so far as to put them in leg irons.
Our city government has become obsessed with being the morality police. This latest eye-roller is in addition to the Chippendales fiasco, and shutting down all the sexually oriented businesses (aka strip clubs) on even the most minute technicality in their permit applications. By the way, the video taped "evidence" the police submitted for proscecution in the Chippendales case was released recently. It is so laughably devoid of any actual violations that I wish the Chippendales organization really had taken the city to court over it, if for no other reason than the negative publicity and to wipe their officious noses in it.
This is also the same city government that has been beating us over the head with red-light cameras. They have endlessly claimed the cameras are there "for safety", only to change the light locations at the last minute "because studies have shown that the intersections in question do not have enough violations for the cameras to be economically viable". (a direct quote from both the city trafic engineer and one of our illustrious city councilpersons).
The most unfortunate part about this whole deal is the store clerk that was arrested. If convicted on the charges they are trying for, the clerk would be forever branded as a sex offender. A lifetime of derision, persecution, and ridicule for someone who is guilty of simply showing up for work, and city doesn't care (see assistant DA's comments in story above). I guess as long as they prosecute someone they feel like they've done their job.
Brad
When this sort of thing happened in Florida, the lawmaker that was doing all the pushes for morality usually ended up being caught with a transvestite prostitute, or something worse.
Hopefully something similar will derail the efforts there.
Post by: Brad Johnson on May 23, 2007, 12:05:38 PM
Brad
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 23, 2007, 12:05:54 PM
Post by: Gewehr98 on May 23, 2007, 12:28:12 PM
Post by: nico on May 23, 2007, 01:51:32 PM
stories like this really make conservatives look bad.
Post by: thebaldguy on May 23, 2007, 02:13:09 PM
SWAT teams raiding bedrooms may be next!
"Police! Put the vibrator on the ground and nobody gets hurt!"
Unreal.
Post by: lupinus on May 23, 2007, 02:37:33 PM
When did we get rid of all those illegal alien laws agian? I missed thsoe headlines.
Post by: cordex on May 24, 2007, 03:43:00 AM
You are all a bunch of anarchists who want the mafia to launder money using child porn.
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on May 24, 2007, 03:44:42 AM
Post by: roo_ster on May 24, 2007, 04:33:51 AM
But, the good citizens of Lubbock have the opportunity to register their support or lack of same when election time comes 'round. Or, maybe they have, if similar publicized incidents have occurred in the past? It seems we have a Lubbock citizen on these very boards who might be able to comment on that.
I am reminded of the 10th Amendment:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution,
nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively,
or to the people.
There are 49 other states and lots of other communities in which to reside. Those communities can best decide for themselves what sort of community they want and what sort of spin they want to place on the term "obscene." Even if it makes me giggle at them.
Last, the owner is a drama queen.
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 24, 2007, 05:48:56 AM
You are all a bunch of anarchists who want the mafia to launder money using child porn.
Drama queen. 
Post by: cordex on May 24, 2007, 06:28:35 AM
Drama queen.
What? Me?!? Well, I have NEVER been so insulted in my life! Watch your back around September 21st and 22nd. We'll find a use for you then!Uppity azazel ... hope you remember your wilderness survival basics.
Post by: Brad Johnson on May 24, 2007, 09:50:29 AM
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It seems we have a Lubbock citizen on these very boards who might be able to comment on that.
We do? Where!?
Brad
(
)
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 24, 2007, 09:51:36 AM
Post by: thebaldguy on May 24, 2007, 01:48:53 PM
There are more worthwhile laws to enforce. Enforcing this law is a waste of tax dollars.
There are lots of laws that are antiquidated that are no longer enforced. In many states, it's still illegal to hang men's and women's underware on the same line.
Post by: Matthew Carberry on May 24, 2007, 04:26:55 PM
Ok, cordex, now I'm just confused.
The witches are going to geeet you. I think.
Don't be alarmed. Contrary to popular belief in places like Lubbock, they have neither mystic death rays nor imperviousness to the slugger of Louisville.
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 24, 2007, 05:10:49 PM
Post by: Strings on May 24, 2007, 05:26:43 PM
Post by: cordex on May 25, 2007, 02:59:44 AM
The Day of Atonement or Yom Kippur starts at sunset on September 21st. Just what do you think a scapegoat used to be for?
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 25, 2007, 03:39:00 AM
20 And when he has made an end of atoning for the Holy Place, the tabernacle of meeting, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat. 21 Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, confess over it all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions, concerning all their sins, putting them on the head of the goat, and shall send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a suitable man. 22 The goat shall bear on itself all their iniquities to an uninhabited land; and he shall release the goat in the wilderness.
Doesn't sound so bad.
Post by: Sindawe on May 25, 2007, 03:56:54 AM
Quote
Ok, now I've got the image of Thor (the Marvel comics version) tossing Mjolner aside, and whipping a Mossberg 590 out from under his cloak...
All well and good. Until the occasionally slow witted God discovers that this his half brother Loki has modified the shells to shoot ballooning spiders.
What a waste of resources for the cops to bust a lingerie shop. But as others have observed, it IS safer than going after REAL criminals.
Post by: S. Williamson on May 25, 2007, 11:04:21 AM
That. Is. All.
Post by: Matthew Carberry on May 25, 2007, 12:05:44 PM
Witches?
The Day of Atonement or Yom Kippur starts at sunset on September 21st. Just what do you think a scapegoat used to be for?
The Day of Atonement or Yom Kippur starts at sunset on September 21st. Just what do you think a scapegoat used to be for?
Pardon me, my Puritanical side came out and I, quite understandably, confused Jews and witches.
Seriously, I thought it was some pagan holiday or something. I have a glaring weak spot when it comes to the Jewish calendar and holidays.
It's unbecoming and embarrassing.
Post by: The Rabbi on May 25, 2007, 02:08:16 PM
Leviticus, Chap. 16
20 And when he has made an end of atoning for the Holy Place, the tabernacle of meeting, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat. 21 Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, confess over it all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions, concerning all their sins, putting them on the head of the goat, and shall send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a suitable man. 22 The goat shall bear on itself all their iniquities to an uninhabited land; and he shall release the goat in the wilderness.
Doesn't sound so bad.
20 And when he has made an end of atoning for the Holy Place, the tabernacle of meeting, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat. 21 Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, confess over it all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions, concerning all their sins, putting them on the head of the goat, and shall send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a suitable man. 22 The goat shall bear on itself all their iniquities to an uninhabited land; and he shall release the goat in the wilderness.
Doesn't sound so bad.
Except your translation is bad. It doesnt say "into the wilderness." It says "to Azazel" which is interpreted to mean a high cliff with sharp rocks underneath. They push the goat off onto the rocks....
Post by: Ron on May 25, 2007, 02:09:07 PM
It was a possibility you know.
Post by: Matthew Carberry on May 25, 2007, 05:21:36 PM
Leviticus, Chap. 16
20 And when he has made an end of atoning for the Holy Place, the tabernacle of meeting, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat. 21 Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, confess over it all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions, concerning all their sins, putting them on the head of the goat, and shall send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a suitable man. 22 The goat shall bear on itself all their iniquities to an uninhabited land; and he shall release the goat in the wilderness.
Doesn't sound so bad.
20 And when he has made an end of atoning for the Holy Place, the tabernacle of meeting, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat. 21 Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, confess over it all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions, concerning all their sins, putting them on the head of the goat, and shall send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a suitable man. 22 The goat shall bear on itself all their iniquities to an uninhabited land; and he shall release the goat in the wilderness.
Doesn't sound so bad.
Except your translation is bad. It doesnt say "into the wilderness." It says "to Azazel" which is interpreted to mean a high cliff with sharp rocks underneath. They push the goat off onto the rocks....
Don't suppose you can grill that bad boy after impact?
Post by: Cromlech on May 26, 2007, 07:38:00 AM
Post by: cordex on May 30, 2007, 05:14:57 AM
xcept your translation is bad. It doesnt say "into the wilderness." It says "to Azazel" which is interpreted to mean a high cliff with sharp rocks underneath. They push the goat off onto the rocks....
Don't suppose you can grill that bad boy after impact?And Scapeful, even if your translation isn't bad, the end result is the same. The goat died.
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 30, 2007, 05:23:46 AM
Post by: cordex on May 30, 2007, 07:27:07 AM
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 30, 2007, 07:33:06 AM
Post by: Matthew Carberry on May 30, 2007, 08:33:52 AM
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 30, 2007, 08:39:27 AM
Post by: Brad Johnson on May 30, 2007, 10:41:47 AM
Quote
Wow, this is getting somewhat disturbing.
I don't know what disturbs me more - the disturbing direction this thread has taken or the fact that you find something disturbing enough to disturb you. Or something.
Brad