Author Topic: How many Libertarians  (Read 4254 times)

Paddy

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How many Libertarians
« on: December 04, 2005, 02:20:16 PM »
give blood, and/or contribute to other charitable causes?  Just curious. (small "l" libertarians included)

Guest

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2005, 02:36:59 PM »
I do, but I'm confused by the question.

Libertarians are not opposed to helping out others. We're just opposed to doing it at gunpoint.

Iain

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2005, 02:55:06 PM »
Barbara, what I think you're being asked if you (libertarians in general) talk a good game, but don't match it on the field.

Apologies to Riley if I'm wrong.
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Guest

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2005, 03:09:18 PM »
Ah, ok. Sorry if I misunderstood.

I've volunteered for Habitat for Humanity, Relay for Life, and served as a volunteer tutor at my local elementary for year, plus some other stuff.  I also donate as much as I can to charitable organizations like the Salvation Army and Hunters for the Hungry.

Fjolnirsson

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2005, 04:35:35 PM »
I give blood, and donate to Salvation Army whenever financially feasible. My wife and I run a belly dance studio. for the last couple of years she has provided entertainment for Relay For Life. We do a show at the local convalescent home once a month, and frequently help out with local fundraisers for business and city interests. I'm planning on a donation to Locks For Love in the future, when my hair is long enough. I'm also involved with an outreach group which works with prisoners in the Oregon and Washington area.
Hi.

Firethorn

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2005, 04:50:34 PM »
I regularly give blood, occasionally give my time/or money for other worthy causes.

Standing Wolf

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2005, 05:20:59 PM »
I don't give blood, but have been volunteering for worthy causes for decades, as well as writing checks.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

grampster

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2005, 05:40:28 PM »
Barbara,

You are not poor my friend.  You are rich in the spirit of a good life.  The more you give, the more you gain.

I'm leaning more toward the libertarian point of view recently.  I do believe that under our system of governance, Constitutional Republic; Representative form of governance, that people need to be involved in that governance in order for it to succeed in the way it should.  I am not opposed to good government.  Perhaps government should be a catalyst for things that make life better, and then stand aside except as ombudsman.  I am working toward that end in my township and county.

Regarding other acts of support to worthy causes, I participate but don't crow about it.
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

Justin

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2005, 08:15:57 PM »
Have given blood and donated to charities.

Barabara put it perfectly.  It ain't charity if I don't have a choice in the matter.
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Fly320s

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2005, 08:41:45 PM »
I've given blood, money, food, and clothes.  I don't give blood anymore, too much hassle with my job.  The rest I give when the mood strikes.
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jefnvk

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2005, 09:41:26 PM »
Gave blood up until the point where medical conditions disallow me to.  I would continue to do so if I could get a straight answer one way or the other on if I can.

Never a big monetary giver, but then I have never really been out making money either.  Did a lot of community work in high school, but I would be lying if I said there was nothing in it for me.
I still say 'Give Detroit to Canada'

SkunkApe

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2005, 09:59:24 PM »
Quote from: RileyMc
give blood, and/or contribute to other charitable causes?  Just curious. (small "l" libertarians included)
I figure I give roughly 40% of my real income to  state and federal governments.  If those aren't charitable cause, I don't know what are.

How about giving me that money back, then asking the same question?

HForrest

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2005, 10:56:46 PM »
I agree with SkunkApe, was about to chime in with a similar thought. People will give a lot more money (this doesn't really apply to blood) to private charities if they aren't being taxed up the ass, giving almost half of what they make to the government. The only real fair way to ask this question is if income taxes were cut dramatically or eliminated.

griz

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2005, 04:31:13 AM »
I have donated over 10 gallons of blood, donate money and goods to several different charities, and can honestly say I would give more if my taxes were lower. Admittedly I might not give to the same causes my government has picked to help, but I wouldn't whine if someone else donated to a charity other than mine.

Forced "charity" is like mandatory volunteering.
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Zundfolge

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2005, 06:38:38 AM »
Small "l" libertarian here.

I've given blood (but not recently), I donate tons of stuff each year to the Salvation Army (which is a religious group, so that should count twice since libertarians tend to be anti-religious :p ).

And like SkunkApe I allow myself to be raped by local, state and federal governments to the tune of close to half my annual income.

Paddy

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2005, 08:30:42 AM »
The question was not meant as a setup to an attack on libertarianism, but rather for my own edification as I search for a new political affiliation.   I'm a lifelong Republican who has been abandoned by his party on too many levels to accept, and a Democrat Party affiliation is completely out of the question.  I cannot reconcile with the LP views on open borders and drug legalization.  I did, however, want more information on individual libertarian's views.  This is one of them.

I (like to think I) live by the 'do unto others' credo.  My personal beliefs include an eventual judgment day when we will all be held accountable for our actions on earth.  I also think that no amount of 'personal responsibility' can prepare for every possibility, and that charitable organizations serve an integral function in a civlized society.

However, since libertarians seem to eschew anything and everything of a 'societal' nature, derisively referring to 'collectivism', I was curious about individual activities with regard to giving.

As an aside, SkunkApe and Zundfolge, unless you're including sales, property, and hidden taxes in the cost of goods in those 40% and 50% figures, something is wrong.   There are all sorts of ways to shelter income from federal and state income taxes.  IRA's, 401's if you're an employee, Keoghs if you're self employed, annuities, etc.

griz

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2005, 08:50:14 AM »
Quote
However, since libertarians seem to eschew anything and everything of a 'societal' nature, derisively referring to 'collectivism', I was curious about individual activities with regard to giving. However, since libertarians seem to eschew anything and everything of a 'societal' nature, derisively referring to 'collectivism', I was curious about individual activities with regard to giving.
If I may generalize since I do not speak for everybody:
Libertarians arent denying the societal nature of people nor the benefits of acting collectively. The issue is when the government controls the decisions on what is worthy of charity. Using me as an example, this libertarian gave money to people helping the victims of hurricane Katrina, but I do not support the governments blanket policy of cutting a check to everybody in a shelter.
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Guest

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2005, 09:10:44 AM »
Quote from: Combat-wombat
I agree with SkunkApe, was about to chime in with a similar thought. People will give a lot more money (this doesn't really apply to blood) ....
Eliminating the pre-emptive Iraq war would have increased the possible blood-donor pool by over 2000.

Riley, you might as well admit now that there are no political solutions to the problems aggravating you. Voting itself is not only numerically futile, but coercive (in that it is a proxy for coercing the voters that didn't vote for your candidate). Save time by becoming an anarchist now and staying home from the polls.

To answer the question, all human transactional behavior is economic, so anyone that donates anything gets some kind of benefit in return; it is axiomatic.

Guest

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2005, 10:40:24 AM »
Quote
However, since libertarians seem to eschew anything and everything of a 'societal' nature, derisively referring to 'collectivism', I was curious about individual activities with regard to giving.
A common misconception. Libertarians are opposed to STATE-run welfare and social programs, and feel that the private sector (charities) should be providing for those who are unable to provide for themselves. It is very much within the libertarian philosophy that one should donate to worthy social causes.

CatsDieNow

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2005, 11:29:49 AM »
They won't take my blood - apparently, I don't meet the minimum weight requirements.

...has left the building.

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2005, 12:59:12 PM »
I contribute to charitable causes.

SkunkApe

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2005, 01:31:41 PM »
Quote from: RileyMc
As an aside, SkunkApe and Zundfolge, unless you're including sales, property, and hidden taxes in the cost of goods in those 40% and 50% figures, something is wrong.   There are all sorts of ways to shelter income from federal and state income taxes.  IRA's, 401's if you're an employee, Keoghs if you're self employed, annuities, etc.
I'm counting federal income tax, social security/medicare (both emploer and employye contributions), state income tax, state sales tax, vehicle license fees, and capital gains taxes.    I'm ignoring things like gas taxes, fishing and hunting licenses, Wallop/Breaux tax on sportingfishing equipment, FAET tax on firearms and ammunition, cigarette tax, liquor tax, telephone taxes, toll booth taxes, etc. etc. etc.  It's making me ill even thinking about it. I'm also ignoring local taxes.  I pay a heck of a lot of property tax money for schools, and I don't even have any children.

All of this money is collected under threat of physical violence.  Most of it is given to people who will take all they can get, or for causes that I do not support, with no concern for my well-being.

Quote from: RileyMc
The question was not meant as a setup to an attack on libertarianism, but rather for my own edification as I search for a new political affiliation.
I offer a portion of my remaining time and money to causes of my own choosing.  I do this for my own personal satisfaction.  I could list examples here, so as to impress others.  But that's not really the point of charity, now is it?

Jamisjockey

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2005, 01:46:55 PM »
Quote from: Barbara
I do, but I'm confused by the question.

Libertarians are not opposed to helping out others. We're just opposed to doing it at gunpoint.
Amen.
I give money to the Red Cross, Rails to Trails, donate used goods to several local religious thrift stores, and give blood a couple times a year....that reminds me I need to set up my next appointment Tongue

I think SkunkApes numbers are actually low.  All the Goods and Services we consume are produced, imported, and or sold by companies/people who have to pay taxes, too.   So, we are paying thier taxes through higher prices.
JD

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Standing Wolf

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2005, 06:41:46 PM »
Actually, I do give blood, but only to my kitty.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

MicroBalrog

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How many Libertarians
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2005, 09:57:46 PM »
According to Nationmaster.com, the figure is approcimately 29.27% of the national GDP, including Federal and State taxes.

As for myself, yes.

The War on Cancer Society, specifically. [an Israeli charity]
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"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner