Author Topic: Ex-Dallas cop Amber Guyger found guilty of murdering her neighbor  (Read 1623 times)

MechAg94

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http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=58207.0
Original discussion a year ago.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/courts/2019/10/01/jurors-begin-second-day-deliberations-amber-guygers-murder-trial/
Amber Guyger convicted of murder for killing Botham Jean; sentencing phase to continue Wednesday

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2018/09/18/timeline-case-unfolded-since-dallas-officer-amber-guyger-killed-botham-jean/
Timeline: How the case has unfolded since Dallas officer Amber Guyger killed Botham Jean

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A Dallas County jury on Tuesday convicted Amber Guyger of murdering Botham Jean in his apartment last year
Quote
Guyger, 31, fatally shot 26-year-old Jean in his apartment last year. She was off-duty but still in uniform when she shot Jean with her service weapon. She had said she mistook his apartment for her own and thought Jean was a burglar. She is the first Dallas officer convicted of murder since the 1970s.

The original discussion is at the first link.  This is the case of the Dallas police officer who came home after a long shift and managed to walk into the wrong apartment.  She said she thought the guy was an intruder and shot him.  Then apparently realized she was in the wrong apartment when calling it in.  That is the official story as I understand it.  I have heard other speculation, but I don't think there is any proof.  

I can't think of any other this would go.  I recall wondering what sort of circumstances it would take to justify this or lessen the charges and couldn't come up with anything.  Best I could think of was maybe getting it down to manslaughter.  I heard she testified that she did indeed intend to kill him at the time which may have helped the murder conviction.

My main take away from the whole story is keep your doors locked so people can't just walk in. 
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Fly320s

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Re: Ex-Dallas cop Amber Guyger found guilty of murdering her neighbor
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2019, 09:28:03 AM »
My first thoughts about this case was that she should be convicted of manslaughter, not capital murder.  I had assumed that a murder charge requires premeditation or intent.  Then I read the Texas definition of capital murder, and her actions fit the definition.

I'm pretty sure the ex-officer did not intend to kill the guy, despite what she said in trial, but her actions do meet the definition of capital murder. 

As for punishment, I'd give her 20 years max.
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zxcvbob

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Re: Ex-Dallas cop Amber Guyger found guilty of murdering her neighbor
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2019, 09:30:15 AM »
My first thoughts about this case was that she should be convicted of manslaughter, not capital murder.  I had assumed that a murder charge requires premeditation or intent.  Then I read the Texas definition of capital murder, and her actions fit the definition.

I'm pretty sure the ex-officer did not intend to kill the guy, despite what she said in trial, but her actions do meet the definition of capital murder. 

As for punishment, I'd give her 20 years max.

Twenty years minimum, here.  But maybe not much more than that.
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makattak

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Re: Ex-Dallas cop Amber Guyger found guilty of murdering her neighbor
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2019, 10:05:01 AM »
While I think manslaughter was likely a more appropriate charge1, this woman clearly ought to be in jail.


She was in the wrong at every turn. I don't know what was said, but she seriously failed, leading to a man's death.

LIKELY (now I'm speculating) because police aren't trained to de-escalate situations and she went full bore on "control the situation" until she shot a man because of her own mistakes.

And that's the BEST CASE scenario. The other is she just started shooting immediately without any attempts to "control the situation".













1: But I wasn't on the jury, so there may be very good reasons they chose otherwise.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Ex-Dallas cop Amber Guyger found guilty of murdering her neighbor
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2019, 10:19:48 AM »
I still haven't wrapped my head around how you can walk into the wrong apartment. Yes, the doors all look the same and, yes, you might be a little dazed from a long day at work, but there are numbers on the doors and there is that whole thing of basic familiarity with your domicile's location. Even if all the doors were identical with no numbers, there are still a set number of doors/units on either side of you that are a visual indicator of location.

There's also the issue of pleading "Not Guilty" when she was the one who most definitely pulled the trigger, and in highly questionable circumstances. I'm wondering if her attorney was counting on getting her off scott-free because she's a pretty female cop. If that's the case, wrong ploy. One guaranteed to piss off the jurors who probably saw right through it.

If they'd been intelligent they would have plead down to something like negligent homicide. She'd have gotten a literal slap on the wrist. At most a few months in minimum a minimum security facility and a couple years probation. Now? Prison, the real kind, and for a long, long time.

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« Last Edit: October 02, 2019, 10:32:02 AM by Brad Johnson »
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Ex-Dallas cop Amber Guyger found guilty of murdering her neighbor
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2019, 10:20:08 AM »
 Wonder if her victim had been a white guy if they would have gone for manslaughter?
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MechAg94

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Re: Ex-Dallas cop Amber Guyger found guilty of murdering her neighbor
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2019, 10:31:41 AM »
I still haven't wrapped my head around how you can walk into the wrong apartment. Yes, the doors all look the same and, yes, you might be a little dazed from a long day at work, but there are numbers on the doors and there is that whole thing of basic familiarity with your domicile's location. Even if all the doors were identical with no numbers, there are still a set number of doors/units on either side of you that are a visual indicator of location.

There's also the issue of pleading "Not Guilty" when she was the one who most definitely pulled the trigger, and in highly questionable circumstances. I'm wondering if her attorney was counting on getting her off scott-free because she's a pretty female cop. If that's the case, wrong ploy. One guaranteed to piss off the jurors who probably saw right through it.

If they'd been intelligent they would have plead down to something like negligent homicide. She'd have gotten a literal slap on the wrist. Now? Prison, the real kind, and for a long, long time.

Brad
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MechAg94

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Re: Ex-Dallas cop Amber Guyger found guilty of murdering her neighbor
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2019, 10:34:54 AM »
It has been a while, but I thought Texas had "Murder" and "Capital Murder" as two different charges.  Capital Murder requires premeditation and could be eligible for the death penalty.  Murder does not require premeditation.  I don't remember exactly how manslaughter is different, but I think "intent" comes into play.  She didn't plan to kill the guy, but you can't say should didn't do it deliberately. 
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Fly320s

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Re: Ex-Dallas cop Amber Guyger found guilty of murdering her neighbor
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2019, 10:52:56 AM »
Even if the outside is the same, as soon as you step in, everything would look different and smell different. 

Speculation:  she was drunk or on drugs.
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Fly320s

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Re: Ex-Dallas cop Amber Guyger found guilty of murdering her neighbor
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2019, 10:57:02 AM »
It has been a while, but I thought Texas had "Murder" and "Capital Murder" as two different charges.  Capital Murder requires premeditation and could be eligible for the death penalty.  Murder does not require premeditation.  I don't remember exactly how manslaughter is different, but I think "intent" comes into play.  She didn't plan to kill the guy, but you can't say should didn't do it deliberately. 


This says they have Capital Murder and Manslaughter.  That's all

https://statelaws.findlaw.com/texas-law/texas-criminal-laws.html
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MillCreek

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Re: Ex-Dallas cop Amber Guyger found guilty of murdering her neighbor
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2019, 11:00:00 AM »
For a case with such media attention, I wonder if the prosecutor even offered a plea deal or refused to accept one offered by the defense.
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MechAg94

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Re: Ex-Dallas cop Amber Guyger found guilty of murdering her neighbor
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2019, 11:31:02 AM »
On the lighter side.................
https://babylonbee.com/news/legal-experts-warn-amber-guyger-verdict-sets-dangerous-precedent-of-justice-being-served
Legal Experts Warn Amber Guyger Verdict Could Set Dangerous Precedent Of Police Officers Not Being Allowed To Shoot Anyone They Want

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Spokespeople for the justice system assured Americans the decision was a fluke and that it "won't happen again."
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HankB

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Re: Ex-Dallas cop Amber Guyger found guilty of murdering her neighbor
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2019, 11:59:57 AM »
Had some NON police officer  walked into someone else's apartment and gunned them down, I'm sure they would have been first charged with B&E, burglary, unlawful entry, or something of the sort.

And then by virtue of killing someone during the commission of another crime, it wouldn't surprise me if CAPITAL murder charges would have been filed.

Amber Guyger may in fact be getting off lightly, compared to what could have happened with a NON-cop.
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Re: Ex-Dallas cop Amber Guyger found guilty of murdering her neighbor
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2019, 05:30:16 PM »
Just saw breaking news that she got 10 years.  Cue the cries of racial bias in sentencing...
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Re: Ex-Dallas cop Amber Guyger found guilty of murdering her neighbor
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2019, 06:50:05 PM »
Quote
Impassioned Black Lives Matter activists expressed outrage at what they considered a light sentence, scheduling a protest for Wednesday afternoon.


Protestors rallied outside the courthouse chanting, "No justice no peace," with one man saying, "Are we surprised? I'm not surprised. The system doesn't value us and it never will and I don't expect it to."


Prosecutors had requested jurors sentence Guyger to 28 years in prison to represent Jean's 28th birthday this past Sunday.

Good thing she didn't shoot a toddler, they would have asked for nearly nothing. Don't those BLM people know anything sentencing guidelines, and all the other factors that go into a sentence.... wait.... that was rhetorical.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/amber-guyger-sentenced-to-10-years-in-shooting-that-killed-botham-jean-in-dallas



bob


« Last Edit: October 02, 2019, 07:15:48 PM by BobR »

Ben

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Re: Ex-Dallas cop Amber Guyger found guilty of murdering her neighbor
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2019, 10:35:02 PM »
The guy's brother is a better human than I am:

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2019/10/02/i-dont-wish-anything-bad-on-you-brother-of-man-murdered-by-former-dallas-cop-asks-in-court-if-he-can-give-her-a-hug/

Just had a chance to read the story.  The brother is a man worthy of admiration.  As the mob mentality began the "No justice,  no peace" chant outside, he chose forgiveness.   God bless him.
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Re: Ex-Dallas cop Amber Guyger found guilty of murdering her neighbor
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2019, 07:57:21 AM »
I know prosecutors go for the easiest thing they can prove to keep their conviction rate high, but *expletive deleted*ck this bitch.  She got off light because she's a cop.
She should be held to a higher standard, not a lower one.  Any one of us white cisgender males would have not gotten off so lightly.
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Ben

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Re: Ex-Dallas cop Amber Guyger found guilty of murdering her neighbor
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2019, 09:24:37 AM »
Apparently the judge also hugged her after the brother did and also gave her a bible.

I have to wonder what went on in the courtroom for both of them to do that. From the bleachers, I subscribe to what Jamis said regarding cops, other civilians, and standards. It's more society/the government's fault that cops get more leeway than other civilians, when in fact they should likely be held to a higher standard, or else non-LEO civilians should at least be given the same leeway as cops.

I agree that your average Joe shmoe, especially if white, would likely have the book thrown at him in this case. However, given the unusual things the brother and judge did,  I wonder if there's more to the story here.
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MechAg94

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Re: Ex-Dallas cop Amber Guyger found guilty of murdering her neighbor
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2019, 09:37:22 AM »
I have heard all sorts of rumors, but few seemed likely.  The only one that could easily be true is she had been drinking and the police allowed some time to pass before checking.  The others were speculation about relationships and speculated she knew what she was doing.  I find that last hard to believe as it would be pretty stupid.
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Firethorn

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Re: Ex-Dallas cop Amber Guyger found guilty of murdering her neighbor
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2019, 09:45:49 AM »
Apparently the judge also hugged her after the brother did and also gave her a bible.

I have to wonder what went on in the courtroom for both of them to do that. From the bleachers, I subscribe to what Jamis said regarding cops, other civilians, and standards. It's more society/the government's fault that cops get more leeway than other civilians, when in fact they should likely be held to a higher standard, or else non-LEO civilians should at least be given the same leeway as cops.

I agree that your average Joe shmoe, especially if white, would likely have the book thrown at him in this case. However, given the unusual things the brother and judge did,  I wonder if there's more to the story here.

Uh, she is white.

Elsewhere, I'm pointing out that statistically, her light sentence likely has more to do with being female, rather than being white.  I pulled up a study showing that being black results in a 20% longer sentence, on average, but being female results in about a 40% reduction, again on average.

Lots of pictures of her being hugged/comforted by black females - a police officer, the judge, etc...


Ben

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Re: Ex-Dallas cop Amber Guyger found guilty of murdering her neighbor
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2019, 09:52:17 AM »
Uh, she is white.

I know.  I was unclear. White male, non-LEO.
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Re: Ex-Dallas cop Amber Guyger found guilty of murdering her neighbor
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2019, 11:05:30 AM »
I wonder if it is also because she is reasonably attractive.
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cordex

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Re: Ex-Dallas cop Amber Guyger found guilty of murdering her neighbor
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2019, 11:33:38 AM »
As long as we're speculating, maybe she convincingly expressed remorse for killing the guy?