Author Topic: What is our worst case scenario in this election?  (Read 22325 times)

The Annoyed Man

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What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« on: September 29, 2008, 04:33:24 AM »
I've been readding about the polls, and the election, all of the debates, and listening to people talk about the McCain vs. Obama election.  It's got me thinking that there s a real chance that Obama may be elected in November.  But, what  I'm interested in, what does that mean for America?  If Obama is elected, is that the end of the United States of America, as I've heard some people around here at the courthouse say?  They predict all sorts of doom and gloom, such as nationalization of many forms of industry, health care, interstate transportation, etc.  They see an effort to pack the Supreme Court with extreme liberals, much in the manner of FDR, to get Obama's package through Constitutional challenges.  They see a federal lawsuit to ban any and all repeating weapons once the make-up of the court's have changed, or a federal sin tax on ammunition and firearms that would essentially dry up the market, to avoid constitutional challenges.  ON the other hand, there are those who see Obama as just another worthless president who would at best have a year or two of power, with support of Congress, until a backlash occurred in the next election and the Congress is packed with Republicans, leaving Obama virtually powerless.

What do you see as likely to occur if Obama actually is elected? Personally, I see Obama trying to push many liberal ideas and programs, meeting a lukewarm reception in Congress.  Another president who really did nothing more significant than being elected.  This economic turn ain't going to end by January, and if and when it continues with these hard time, he's gonna take the blame for it.  If there's a turnaround anytime soon, the Republican's will take credit for it, saying W's plan worked out.

Any thoughts?

Manedwolf

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2008, 04:47:35 AM »
Congress has a democrat majority. Extreme liberals are at the wheel, people like Pelosi. Obama would sign it all.

I expect the economy would go to hell in a wallowing and capsizing storm of socialism and welfare state entitlements, along with raised taxes destroying businesses. And I would expect the following with regard to firearms, "for the children".

AWB with mandatory registration, a la the 1986 MG ban

which leads to

More than six banned weapons called an "arsenal", subject to an additional tax and yearly inspection. Public database of "arsenal" holders, accessible to your neighbors like a sex offender registry

which leads to

Periodic mandatory turn-ins of "too dangerous" weapons, when some bad guy uses one in a rampage. AK derivatives first. They know you have it. Turn it in, or you get a no-knock.

coupled with

Ban on ammunition storage beyond a certain number of rounds in a private residence. Monthly limits on ammunition purchase, with recordkeeping similar to that now used for purchase of pseudoephedrine-containing cold medicines. No more surplus ammo sales at all.

and finally

National ban on concealed carry for all but police and military, and select high-profile politicians and celebrities deemed to be "high risk", just as it is in New York City.

Don't think that's what they want? I do. It's their dream.

ronnyreagan

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2008, 06:10:07 AM »
To be honest, I don't expect it to be much worse than the last 8 years.

Our economy will probably suck, but that will neither be Obama's fault nor his responsibility to fix. The free market takes a big dump sometimes, it's called a correction. He may muck it up further by trying to fix things though.

I don't see much changing in national security or foreign policy areas either - he might try to pull out of Iraq, but that will affect me about as much as going in did (not much). He might try for an AWB but I kind of doubt it, and I'd be surprised if it actually passed. The deficit will surely increase, but that's definitely nothing new. I guess I might get a tax cut, which would be nice. undecided

Sometimes I wonder if I'm paranoid enough to even be posting here. rolleyes
You have to respect the president, whether you agree with him or not.
Obama, however, is not the president since a Kenyan cannot legally be the U.S. President ;/

ilbob

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2008, 06:31:12 AM »
I expect increased welfare payments to those who don't contribute, and increased taxes on those who do.

And an accelerated reduction in personal liberty.
bob

Disclaimers: I am not a lawyer, cop, soldier, gunsmith, politician, plumber, electrician, or a professional practitioner of many of the other things I comment on in this forum.

TommyGunn

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2008, 06:45:52 AM »
If Obama gets elected, we will have two years of misery and a tanking economy.  In 2010 the midterm elections will give congress back to the republicans and Obama will go along to get along in hopes of rescuing the possibility of a second term. 
Depending on how well the economy is doing in 2012 we may or may not get a republican president, depending also on how dumbed down the American people have become by then.
There are interesting times ahead .....  sad
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Boomhauer

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2008, 06:53:22 AM »
Quote
Sometimes I wonder if I'm paranoid enough to even be posting here

Look, Obama's minions are using their granted powers to attempt to squash dissent.

Oh, but he won't resort to those tactics, of course.

That's just paranoia.

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Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

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the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

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HankB

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2008, 07:17:27 AM »
If Obama gets the Presidency and a veto-proof Senate . . . our future will look like a cross between Venezuela and Zimbabwe.  sad
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ronnyreagan

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2008, 07:40:40 AM »
Quote
Sometimes I wonder if I'm paranoid enough to even be posting here
Look, Obama's minions are using their granted powers to attempt to squash dissent.
Oh, but he won't resort to those tactics, of course.
That's just paranoia.

I don't know maybe I've just seen too many editorials about how unprepared, incompetent, indecisive, and unfit for command Obama is. Now suddenly he's some sort of supreme commander and he's going to do anything he wants unopposed? I heard the same type of dire warnings from my liberal friends about Bush (although those tended more toward warmonger fascist police states than gun grabbing communism). None of them came true. He ended up being a crappy president, floundering and messing quite a few things up - and I certainly would expect that from Obama - but not the end the free world scenario that others seem to buy into. There are plenty of things to attack Obama on, I just think it helps to do so in reality. I already recognize that my rather optimistic viewpoint is probably in the minority here, but I still hope I'm right.
You have to respect the president, whether you agree with him or not.
Obama, however, is not the president since a Kenyan cannot legally be the U.S. President ;/

Manedwolf

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2008, 07:43:03 AM »
I don't know maybe I've just seen too many editorials about how unprepared, incompetent, indecisive, and unfit for command Obama is. Now suddenly he's some sort of supreme commander and he's going to do anything he wants unopposed?

Why not? Daley in Chicago manages to be both.

longeyes

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2008, 07:58:12 AM »
Obama and Obamaism was the inevitable result of forty years of following "the Pleasure Principle."  It will have to be played out.  There will be major hardship and unpleasantness, but it will also engender the hard thinking and sobriety and resistance that those of us who believe in liberty have been avoiding for our own comfort and convenience.  I think the country may well fly apart, the social compact terminally broken, the rule of law mocked and ignored.  What emerges as a result of the economic, social, and moral crisis can't be predicted.  I would like to think that the great and visionary ideas of the Founding Fathers will survive and prevail but perhaps not in the confines of the country as we've become used to it.  That may mean secession, it may mean escape and exile.  The truth will always find a home, somewhere.  Now and then, though, the truth has to go underground or into a monastery in the mountains...
"Domari nolo."

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Scout26

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2008, 08:00:31 AM »
I picture Atlas Shrugged meets Red Dawn....
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

K Frame

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2008, 08:03:01 AM »
Worst case scenario.

Obama wins.

Alternate worst case scenario, one that is equally as bad?

McCain wins.


To quote Bender Bending Rodriquez....

We're boned.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

longeyes

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2008, 09:32:38 AM »
And that means it's back to us, as it always should have been.

No more "great leaders," no more Messiahs.

We need a warrior to deal with national defense, and most of the rest should be as localized as possible.
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

hardwarehacker

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2008, 11:02:01 AM »
Mr. Obama, I totally agree, is more likely to sign off on anti-gun regulations.  Mr. Bush, however, has worked very hard at finding ways around the constitution.  We have no-fly lists which we are not allowed to see and from which there is no way to get an innocent person removed.  All phone networks are now required to have software which permits the NSA to tap any call at any time, and the machines don't ask about warrants.  4000+ of our troops dead fighting a war started over weapons which turned out not to exist.  What a convenient excuse.
 
There is now a class of 'enemy combatants' to whom the administration wants to deny the most basic rights.  They can be held without charges, tortured, tried in closed courts without even being told the evidence against them.  Several of the military's own prosecutors have quit in disgust because this system is so at odds with the US Constitution.

These may be much more serious threats in the long term.  Historically, governments which believe in strong controls have eventually decided that armed civilians are not a good thing.  What if the next secret list is 'assault weapon owners'?  Those new telephone taps would work just as well for catching people who talk about guns and their 'rights'.  Who will be the next class of 'threats' who may get tried on 'secret' evidence?

I personally think that a relatively disorganized party and president for whom gun control is not a top priority is the lesser evil right now.  Honestly, I don't want to see either party in power long enough to re-shape laws and agencies completely.  My answer is to alternate periodically.  Why do we always seem to wind up voting for the lesser evil?

Manedwolf

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2008, 11:04:24 AM »
Mr. Obama, I totally agree, is more likely to sign off on anti-gun regulations.  Mr. Bush, however, has worked very hard at finding ways around the constitution.  We have no-fly lists which we are not allowed to see and from which there is no way to get an innocent person removed.  All phone networks are now required to have software which permits the NSA to tap any call at any time, and the machines don't ask about warrants.  4000+ of our troops dead fighting a war started over weapons which turned out not to exist.  What a convenient excuse.
 
There is now a class of 'enemy combatants' to whom the administration wants to deny the most basic rights.  They can be held without charges, tortured, tried in closed courts without even being told the evidence against them.  Several of the military's own prosecutors have quit in disgust because this system is so at odds with the US Constitution.

These may be much more serious threats in the long term.  Historically, governments which believe in strong controls have eventually decided that armed civilians are not a good thing.  What if the next secret list is 'assault weapon owners'?  Those new telephone taps would work just as well for catching people who talk about guns and their 'rights'.  Who will be the next class of 'threats' who may get tried on 'secret' evidence?

I personally think that a relatively disorganized party and president for whom gun control is not a top priority is the lesser evil right now.  Honestly, I don't want to see either party in power long enough to re-shape laws and agencies completely.  My answer is to alternate periodically.  Why do we always seem to wind up voting for the lesser evil?

DU/KosKid plant alert! cheesy

Your attempt at verbal obfuscation will not work, sorry. When you veer off into the "enemy combatants OMG torture" angle, it breaks the magic spell.

hardwarehacker

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2008, 11:10:23 AM »
>>DU/KosKid plant alert! cheesy

>>Your attempt at verbal obfuscation will not work, sorry. When you veer off into the "enemy combatants OMG torture" >>angle, it breaks the magic spell.

Which parts do you think are not fact? 

I am a very serious gun owner who happens to believe in the US Constitution.  I fear those who try to find ways around it more than just about anything else.

Manedwolf

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2008, 11:12:08 AM »
>>DU/KosKid plant alert! cheesy

>>Your attempt at verbal obfuscation will not work, sorry. When you veer off into the "enemy combatants OMG torture" >>angle, it breaks the magic spell.

Which parts do you think are not fact? 

I am a very serious gun owner who happens to believe in the US Constitution.  I fear those who try to find ways around it more than just about anything else.


I bet you're one of those sorts who think waterboarding is torture, too.

Also, when you do that line about "4000+ of our troops dead fighting a war started over weapons which turned out not to exist.", you are insulting the memory of countless fallen soldiers and also a lot of veterans. They FREED Iraq. Saying that sort of sh_t pisses people off, unless they're Code Pink freaks.

You don't sound like a gun owner. You sound like Cindy Sheehan.

hardwarehacker

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2008, 11:21:34 AM »


I bet you're one of those sorts who think waterboarding is torture, too.

Also, when you do that line about "4000+ of our troops dead fighting a war started over weapons which turned out not to exist.", you are insulting the memory of countless fallen soldiers and also a lot of veterans. They FREED Iraq. Saying that sort of sh_t pisses people off, unless they're Code Pink freaks.

You don't sound like a gun owner. You sound like Cindy Sheehan.
[/quote]

I greatly respect our military and its members.  I think they are being used and abused.

The Iraquis, IMHO, are prisoners of their religion.  My guess is that as soon as we leave their sects will go back to fighting until one of them (again) becomes totally dominant and another brutal dictator emerges.

I wouldn't be on this site if I were not a gun owner -- that is its main attraction, after all.  Do you expect everyone who owns firearms to share all of your opinions? 

The Annoyed Man

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2008, 11:24:30 AM »
If Obama gets the Presidency and a veto-proof Senate . . . our future will look like a cross between Venezuela and Zimbabwe.  sad
I imagine it being more like a cross between Zimbabwe & North Korea. Anarchy, cult of personality, and producing nothing of value after a few years.

macadore

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2008, 11:31:12 AM »
If Obama wins we will finally have a President worse than Carter, and for the same reasons. Carter gutted the military and tried to play nice with Iran and Russia. Carters fiscal policies gave us 18% interest and introduced and gave us the terms stagflation and misery index.

The Annoyed Man

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2008, 03:46:06 PM »
But America survived Carter. Many of these other posters, nd people I hear at work, see Obama as truly the end of America.  I just can't see it getting that bad.  Of course, I am known as being an eternal optimist...

longeyes

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2008, 05:38:14 PM »
Not the terminator, maybe the evictor.
"Domari nolo."

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Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

Manedwolf

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2008, 05:38:40 PM »
But America survived Carter. Many of these other posters, nd people I hear at work, see Obama as truly the end of America.  I just can't see it getting that bad.  Of course, I am known as being an eternal optimist...

Carter was an easy mark, Obama is a con artist.

Tallpine

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2008, 06:07:12 AM »
Quote
Mr. Bush, however, has worked very hard at finding ways around the constitution.  We have no-fly lists which we are not allowed to see and from which there is no way to get an innocent person removed.  All phone networks are now required to have software which permits the NSA to tap any call at any time, and the machines don't ask about warrants.  4000+ of our troops dead fighting a war started over weapons which turned out not to exist.  What a convenient excuse.
 
There is now a class of 'enemy combatants' to whom the administration wants to deny the most basic rights.  They can be held without charges, tortured, tried in closed courts without even being told the evidence against them.

Just picture all of those things under Obama's control ...  shocked
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

seeker_two

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Re: What is our worst case scenario in this election?
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2008, 11:23:29 AM »
But America survived Carter. Many of these other posters, nd people I hear at work, see Obama as truly the end of America.  I just can't see it getting that bad.  Of course, I am known as being an eternal optimist...

The reason America survived Carter was due to having Ronald Reagan on the ballot for the next election....right now, we have a choice between Carter and Carter...and life has taught me that pessimism is the better bet....
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.