Why they didn't sign the Stimulus (Pork) Package. Nancy Pelosi, nota bene!

[buzz_knox]

The first bailout was targeted at Wall Street, banks, etc.  The second is targeted at socialist causes.  The first had a chance (slim but there) of breaking the credit logjam and getting things running.  The second has no hope whatsoever of being effective in assisting the economy.

[lone_gunman]

Do you really believe the Bush bail out had a chance?

And do you also really believe the money was used appropriately?  As I understand it, not all the money given has to even be accounted for.  If it is not used appropriately, then how is it any better than money used to advance socialist causes?

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

I thought the icecaps are all going to melt in a few years? :rolleyes:

It actually makes sense. Increasing temps will melt the glaciers - and as they melt, icebergs ought to break off 'em at a faster than normal rate.

• $1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.

I got me one of those last summer. Useful programs, as they employ a significant number of knaves people who would otherwise be a drain on the resources of parents. Besides that, my job's pretty much guaranteed for this year. 

[wmenorr67]

• $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.

Can they not use their own funds from the casinos that they all seem to have nowadays?

[Waitone]

Bush Derangement Syndrome has two manifestations:  rabid, drooling hatred of anything Bush and second, rabid, drooling support of anything Bush.

The US is a two party government but the parties aren't democrat and republican.

[Boomhauer]

I got me one of those last summer. Useful programs, as they employ a significant number of knaves people who would otherwise be a drain on the resources of parents

Every year, we employ high school students under "Youth Conservation Corps". They don't actually do a damn thing, except break stuff. Expensive stuff. Our boss really likes having them work, though, so he doesn't care. The YCC can do no wrong.

That's government employing youth under programs for you.

[Perd Hapley]

Is there any reason other than partisan politics? 

Why did Bush get support for his plan from most of them, but Obama did not?

You are the one playing partisan politics.  Look at the facts.  The Republicans initially OPPOSED the Bush bailout.  They voted against Bush's first bill.  Some of them voted for the second bill.  So, what was your question again? 

Here's a better question.  Why is it OK for Nancy Pelosi to call the Republican Congressmen unpatriotic for opposing the first bail-out bill, when her party has been telling us for eight years that no one's patriotism must ever be questioned?

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

Every year, we employ high school students under "Youth Conservation Corps". They don't actually do a damn thing, except break stuff. Expensive stuff. Our boss really likes having them work, though, so he doesn't care. The YCC can do no wrong.

That's government employing youth under programs for you.

I only broke a shredder. 

[Boomhauer]

I only broke a shredder. 

You didn't tear up a $7000 fourwheeler.

Or rip the canopy off the golf cart.

Or run into a tree with another golfcart, which promptly caught on fire...

These are just a few things that have happened with our idiot YCC workers.

[MicroBalrog]

You are the one playing partisan politics.  Look at the facts.  The Republicans initially OPPOSED the Bush bailout.  They voted against Bush's first bill.  Some of them voted for the second bill.  So, what was your question again?

How is he playing partisan politics? Did Lone_gunman said Democrats were better?

[lone_gunman]

If you look at percentages, a much higher percentage of Republicans voted for the Bush bailout than for the Obama bailout.  Thats what I am wondering about.

I am not interested in what the Democrats have or have not done.   I am not a Democrat, and haven't supported a Democrat at any point.  So bringing up anything Nancy Pelosi says is sort of irrelevant.  The Democrats suck, but does that mean its ok for the Republicans to suck just a little bit less?

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

You didn't tear up a $7000 fourwheeler.

Or rip the canopy off the golf cart.

Or run into a tree with another golfcart, which promptly caught on fire...

These are just a few things that have happened with our idiot YCC workers.

Now I see why my supervisor(s) thought so highly of me (aside from the whole efficiency bit). I seem to recall that I had access to a .gov truck/SUV when I got courier duty a time or two, never took it though.
Where are you at? Kamikaze golf carts interest me. 

FWIW, I consider the program useful because the program include(d/s) me. If I am part and parcel of it, it can't be all bad - 99% so, sure. The folks where I worked did have a poor opinion of their previous two summer hires. I get the notion that the bad ones get moved around base a lot, to spread the misery along. Also get the notion that you can't fire these summer employees unless they're actively selling secrets to Iran.

[lone_gunman]

The first bailout was targeted at Wall Street, banks, etc.  The second is targeted at socialist causes.

As I recall, the Bush bail out bill resulted in the government having an ownership interest in private banks.  Isn't that pretty socialist?

[Nitrogen]

Most Americans are for the idea of a stimulus bill, but most Americans see the current Democratic bill for what it is, a stuffed pig.  (Myself included)

I'd have far less problems haveing a trillion of my tax dollars stolen for something that might help the economy as a whole, but I have far more problems with only 600 billion of 1 trillion being stolen for this purpose, with the rest of it being porky.

[Perd Hapley]

If you look at percentages, a much higher percentage of Republicans voted for the Bush bailout than for the Obama bailout.  Thats what I am wondering about. 

Why do you seem to presume that the only difference in the two bills is the party of the President who supports it?  They're two different bills, so where's this partisanship? 

I brought up the Pelosi thing because it is a very tantalizing bit of trivia, which no one talks about.  And since your question has been answered, we might as well talk about something more interesting.  So, no, I'm not saying that the Republicans are OK because the Dem's are worse.  Why would you draw such an unwarranted conclusion?

[Perd Hapley]

As I recall, the Bush bail out bill resulted in the government having an ownership interest in private banks.  Isn't that pretty socialist?

Something pointed out by myriad Republican and/or conservative commentators. 

[MicroBalrog]

Something pointed out by myriad Republican and/or conservative commentators. 

Quite, but not listened to by the Party leadership and its key politicians.

[lone_gunman]

I think it is ironic for Republicans to say Obama's plan is socialist, only to have voted for a plan a few months earlier that allows for government ownership of banks.

[Perd Hapley]

Quite, but not listened to by the Party leadership and its key politicians.

Are you sensing a pattern, too?   

I think it is ironic for Republicans to say Obama's plan is socialist, only to have voted for a plan a few months earlier that allows for government ownership of banks.

I think it's ironic for anyone to say it. 

But to restate something that seems to have been ignored, a good many Republican Representatives voted AGAINST the first bail-out that Bush supported, just as they voted against the Obama bail-out. 

So can we all acknowledge that this is not a case of out-and-out partisanship? 

[BReilley]

I think it is ironic for Republicans to say Obama's plan is socialist, only to have voted for a plan a few months earlier that allows for government ownership of banks.

So which is more socialist?  Government nationalizing finance, or government redistributing wealth?  The pot and the kettle are both black.  If you're going to throw *expletive deleted*it at the wall, at least pick GOOD *expletive deleted*it.

Here's one for you:
Show me how Bush and those who supported his finance bailout stand to gain politically from its passage.

The people are pissed at the bailout's execution and lack of accountability, and all of the huge financial entities who took receipt of our money are still having bad times.  Not a proud vote for a lot of supporters.

Now, show me how Obama and those Democrats who supported this new bill stand to gain politically from its passage.

The people are pissed, but expect MASS contributions from labor organizations, contractors, utility companies, etc. to Democrat politicians who signed on for their little piece of the pig.  They'll be OK.

So can we all acknowledge that this is not a case of out-and-out partisanship?

Those of us who can, have.  Those of us who can't, will keep complaining.

[Gewehr98]

Merged threads, Lone_Gunman didn't need to create a separate one.

Here's the link for JamisJockey:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/02/gop.stimulus.worries/index.html

If it looks like pork, and smells like pork...  :|

[buzz_knox]

Do you really believe the Bush bail out had a chance?

And do you also really believe the money was used appropriately?  As I understand it, not all the money given has to even be accounted for.  If it is not used appropriately, then how is it any better than money used to advance socialist causes?

A chance?  Absolutely.  What was killing the economy was the inability of companies to utilize lines of credit for operations.  That was a standard business model for a large number of the companies the economy relied upon.  When that was blocked due to fear over the "toxic assets" (a stupid term but one that has become a term of art), companies began going under and employees began losing their jobs.  That helped aggravate the job loss cycle that did further damage to the economy, that in turn continued the cycle, etc.

What happened after the bill was introduced (nationalization of a significant portion of the banking industry via coercion, abuse of the money, failure to lend the money, etc) didn't affect the underlying principles of the bill.  The new bill, however, isn't just possible or likely to be abused, it is abuse. 

[lone_gunman]

A chance?  Absolutely.

I disagree.  The Bush bailout was a set up for abuse, and if no one saw that beforehand, it is because no one was looking.  The banks don't even have to account for all the money they recieve.  If that is not a set up for abuse, nothing is.

Do not misconstrue my opposition to the Bush plan as support for Obama's plan.  My point is that socialism and increased federal intervention is bad, no matter if it is a Republican or Democrat doing it.  Bush got a free ride from many supposed conservative republicans, including my Republican senator Saxby Chambliss.  Anyone who supports either the Bush or Obama bailouts should never complain about socialism or communism, because they have effectively advanced those systems here.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Back when the Bush Bailout was passed the Fed was losing control of interests rates and the money supply.  Interest rates were spiking because banks were insolvent.  The bailout was intended to bring those rates back under control.

It worked.

Obama's plan?  That's not a bailout or stimulus or anything remotely similar.  It's a spending plan on a massive scale, nothing more.

Is it partisan to give passing support to one bill and then completely oppose an entirely different bill?  Of course not.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I disagree.  The Bush bailout was a set up for abuse, and if no one saw that beforehand, it is because no one was looking.  The banks don't even have to account for all the money they recieve.  If that is not a set up for abuse, nothing is.

Do not misconstrue my opposition to the Bush plan as support for Obama's plan.  My point is that socialism and increased federal intervention is bad, no matter if it is a Republican or Democrat doing it.  Bush got a free ride from many supposed conservative republicans, including my Republican senator Saxby Chambliss.  Anyone who supports either the Bush or Obama bailouts should never complain about socialism or communism, because they have effectively advanced those systems here.

My understanding is that the Bush bailout money was used primarily to buy preferred stock in the banks.  Preferred stock is a loan, not an ownership interest.