Author Topic: Paulians join forces with extreme leftists, ACLU  (Read 4536 times)

Manedwolf

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Paulians join forces with extreme leftists, ACLU
« on: July 25, 2008, 04:07:26 AM »
Now do some people see why I dislike and distrust the Paulians? They're bomb-throwers, and their hatred of the administration will lead them to ally with ANYONE who shares that blind hatred of all things Bush.

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The saying goes that politics makes strange bedfellows, and this axiom is especially appropriate to describe the new coalition that has formed to fight telecom amnesty legislation. So appropriate, in fact, that the group has adopted the phrase into its title.

Several left-of-center bloggers, Ron Paul activists, and the ACLU joined forces recently to wage a multi-phase offense against so-called Blue Dog Democrats, several of whom are accused of acquiescing to the Bush Administrations demands for telecom immunity. At the center of this war lies a new FISA bill reportedly being drafted by Democratic Congressman Steny Hoyer  a bill that news reports say will include retroactive immunity to telecom companies that have participated in illegal wiretapping.

Rick Williams is a trial lawyer and was at the forefront of the online activism that formed around presidential candidate Ron Paul; he was part of the driving force behind the multi-million dollar campaign fundraisers that helped propel Paul into the national spotlight. He and his business partner, Trevor Lyman (who engineered the money bomb that raised $6 million for the presidential candidate in a 24-hour period), launched Break the Matrix, a social networking site aimed at harnessing the momentum of the massive online Paul movement. In a phone interview yesterday I asked Williams how this coalition formed.

One of our members at Break the Matrix works in the media in DC, he told me. He was in touch with the leftist bloggers and he came to us saying that we should meet. So we started having some conference calls with the leftist blogs and we came up with the idea to form this group. The Ron Paul community has very strong shared values on constitutional rights  the left and Break the Matrix are on the same page when it comes to these civil liberties issues.

Spearheading this group is Salon blogger Glenn Greenwald, a former civil rights lawyer who writes frequently about what he calls telecom amnesty. Over the past six months he has already worked feverishly with other bloggers to run advertising campaigns against Blue Dog Democrats that supported the new FISA legislation proposed by the Bush Administration.

Eventually the ACLU started getting involved as well, Williams said. They were participating in our conference calls because I think they saw the potential for a leftist group teaming up with the limited-government right. Glenn has been comparing us to an ideologically-diverse coalition that has formed in Britain to fight government expansion over there.

Liz Rose, a spokesperson for the ACLU, told me today that its not uncommon for the special interest group to work with people from both the right and left on civil liberties issues. In this case, a vote is coming up in Congress on this bad FISA bill and we need to convince the Democratic leadership not to go forward with what we think is an unconstitutional bill, she said. So this Strange Bedfellows presented itself as a great opportunity to get involved with the right and left who are against the bill. And eventually wed collaborate on other civil liberties concerns.

But as for what role the ACLU will play in Strange Bedfellows, Rose said this wasnt yet clear. Its still the beginning, she said. The ACLU has been fighting the gutting of FISA nonstop since last July. I think honestly were going to keep doing what weve been doing. Were up on the Hill lobbying. We offer talking points and reach out to our affiliates. With Strange Bedfellows, I think were getting a kind of new energy and renewed excitement online. I mean, weve been reaching out to bloggers for an entire year, but bringing in these Ron Paul supporters is a big deal.

Matt Stoller, one of the founders of the popular Open Left blog, has been a part of Strange Bedfellows since its creation. In a phone interview today he told me that the ACLUs resources will be a vital asset to the groups political influence. They do a lot of lobbying and so thats pretty important, he said. Fighting telecom amnesty has been a major campaign of theirs. They sometimes do organizing work and they already have a base of supporters. They also have a good bit of credibility, and so I think theyre going to bring a lot of credibility to our group.

Stoller pointed out that leftist bloggers and Ron Paul supporters have already been fighting telecom amnesty for months, so it naturally made sense for the them to join forces.

So now that the coalition has formed, how does it plan to fight the revised FISA bill? In a blog post today, Greenwald indicated that the groups campaign will be divided in two phases. Phase I [will] entail an immediate ad campaign aimed at three key Democratic enablers of this bill  Hoyer, Chris Carney, and Blue Dog Rep. John Barrow of Georgia, he wrote. The reasons for targeting Hoyer are self-evident and were set forth yesterday, and the campaign against Carney  who has long been one of the Blue Dogs spearheading the effort behind this bill  is already underway and will continue.

Phase II, Greenwald says, will involve a massive money bomb. This large fundraiser will be utilized in a number of broader civil liberty campaigns to oppose and punish those vulnerable members of Congress who continue to support the evisceration of our constitutional framework and core civil liberties, while supporting candidates and office-holders who meaningfully oppose that assault. As for what these campaigns will be, the dates and other details for that will be announced shortly.

And lest one snicker at this ambitious proposal, consider the fact that the group has managed to raise $90,000 in just the first 24 hours of its campaign. This number indicates there is a growing unrest with civil liberties activists.

Whether this coalition will be able to harness that unrest remains to be seen. Williams, for his part, is optimistic.

We think that having the grass roots people from the left and grassroots people from the right come together will be a very powerful tool, he said. These issues are not ones that are going to go away.

http://bloggasm.com/strange-bedfellows-bloggers-from-the-left-and-right-team-up-with-the-aclu-to-fight-telecom-immunity

MicroBalrog

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Re: Paulians join forces with extreme leftists, ACLU
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2008, 04:24:44 AM »
Because the telecom amnesty is so awesome.
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GigaBuist

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Re: Paulians join forces with extreme leftists, ACLU
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2008, 10:01:44 AM »
Whoa.. political alliances that aren't based on an ultra simple left vs. right paradigm?

BURN THEM! BURN THEM WITH FIRE!

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Paulians join forces with extreme leftists, ACLU
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2008, 10:35:33 AM »
Ditto to the reactions here.

So, by that logic if George Bush doesn't want to nuke Cedar Rapids, IA, then by default Nancy Pelosi HAS to want to nuke Iowa?

That's just dumb.

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Scout26

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Re: Paulians join forces with extreme leftists, ACLU
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2008, 10:51:01 AM »
Nancy Pelosi HAS to want to nuke Iowa?

I could agree with her on that...... grin
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Paulians join forces with extreme leftists, ACLU
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2008, 10:58:39 AM »
I would be suspicious of anyone working with the ACLU.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Paulians join forces with extreme leftists, ACLU
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2008, 11:40:55 AM »
I would be suspicious of anyone working with the ACLU.

The NRA is indeed extremely suspect.
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The Annoyed Man

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Re: Paulians join forces with extreme leftists, ACLU
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2008, 12:24:44 PM »
Don't forget; both the NRA and the ACLU agreed that the REAL ID was a bad idea. So, common ground can be found when common enemies are made.

Having said that, I don't agree with all things ACLU: like the ACLU's "collective right" stance on the 2nd Amendment.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Paulians join forces with extreme leftists, ACLU
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2008, 01:32:31 PM »
I believe Oleg put it best with this image (look at the picture, not just the slogan):

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Silver Bullet

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Re: Paulians join forces with extreme leftists, ACLU
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2008, 03:20:49 PM »
Whoa.. political alliances that aren't based on an ultra simple left vs. right paradigm?

BURN THEM! BURN THEM WITH FIRE!

 grin grin grin

De Selby

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Re: Paulians join forces with extreme leftists, ACLU
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2008, 03:22:56 PM »
Because the telecom amnesty is so awesome.

Don't worry-they're only going to spy on guys with beards and funny hats.  No civil rights issue is a problem as long as you select the proper targets for a violation.
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yesitsloaded

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Re: Paulians join forces with extreme leftists, ACLU
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2008, 03:27:10 PM »
Beards and funny hats....YOU MEAN SANTA. That evil terrorist scum laugh
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Finch

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Re: Paulians join forces with extreme leftists, ACLU
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2008, 08:24:50 AM »
The enemy of my enemy is my friend...

But let's forget that. We can't let an opportunity to bash Ron Paul supporters get away...  rolleyes
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roo_ster

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Re: Paulians join forces with extreme leftists, ACLU
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2008, 09:17:12 AM »
Hmm.

I have very few problems with the bill in question with the exception of the telecom amnesty.

If the telecoms violated agreements with their customers, they ought to hang.  I expect them to hold on to the data of their customers unless handed a warrant by John Q. Law.

OTOH, requiring a warrant for an overseas wiretap is just asinine.  Clarifying that there is no need is a good thing.
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LAK

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Re: Paulians join forces with extreme leftists, ACLU
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2008, 11:41:28 PM »
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Paulians join forces with extreme leftists, ACLU

Now do some people see why I dislike and distrust the Paulians? They're bomb-throwers, and their hatred of the administration will lead them to ally with ANYONE who shares that blind hatred of all things Bush.
This is amusing - considering people like George W Bush have steadfastly continued our funding and engagement with the extreme leftist extraordinaires; the international criminal cartel otherwise known as "the United Nations".

The Blair government comes to mind, as well as a few others.

The telecom immunity is just another example of the element of facism running alongside the deeply entrenched socialism in Washington. Giving this kind of immunity to a group of private corporations and their employees is a crime against the people of this nation, and "all things Bush" should have been consigned to a Federal prison a long time ago.

Balog

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Re: Paulians join forces with extreme leftists, ACLU
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2008, 10:13:06 AM »
So are you in favor of telco's being able to use the Nuremberg defence? "Sure we illegally wiretapped American citizens, but the fed.gov asked us to!"
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ilbob

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Re: Paulians join forces with extreme leftists, ACLU
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2008, 12:56:05 PM »
So are you in favor of telco's being able to use the Nuremberg defence? "Sure we illegally wiretapped American citizens, but the fed.gov asked us to!"
pretty much. the feds had a pretty good legal argument going. not perfect but pretty good. the rionic part is this kind of thing has been going on since the telephone was invented.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Paulians join forces with extreme leftists, ACLU
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2008, 02:19:07 PM »
So are you in favor of telco's being able to use the Nuremberg defence? "Sure we illegally wiretapped American citizens, but the fed.gov asked us to!"
pretty much. the feds had a pretty good legal argument going. not perfect but pretty good. the rionic part is this kind of thing has been going on since the telephone was invented.

1. Close only counts in horse-shoes and hand grenades.

2. And theft has been going since property has been 'invented'. Doesn't make it right.

Would you agree to an amnesty for illegal aliens? Thought so.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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