'Renewable energy good, but we need oil now'

[Desertdog]

They never seem to realize that there are many, many gasoline and diesel powered vehicles on the road that are going to be running for a lot more years.
The way the global warmist talk you would think that every one of the gas guzzlers would be dead and buried in about 5 years if they get their way.

'Renewable energy good, but we need oil now'
Perino objects to Dem plan to keep prices high, 'move beyond petroleum'
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=70473


Renewable energy is a praiseworthy goal, but the U.S. needs more oil now, according to White House spokeswoman Dana Perino.

She told a press briefing today it's going to take time to switch from oil and gas to "alternatives and renewables."

Her comments came in response to a question from Les Kinsolving, WND's correspondent at the White House.

He asked: "On Bloomberg Television, Washington State's Democrat U.S. Sen. [Maria] Cantwell said that Democrats don't want to increase oil supplies because they want to wean Americans off petroleum and into 'things like wind and solar that can help us with our high cost of natural gas.' And my question: Does the White House believe this is at all helpful to our present rising costs of more than $4 a gallon?"

"We have said that we believe there needs to be a transition period between the traditional oil and gas use that we have today to when we would [be] able to run on alternatives and renewables," Perino said, "and it's going to take a little while of time.

"That's why we think that we need to open up more of our own resources here at home so we can add more supply to the market," she said.

Asked point-blank if Democrats in the Senate would consider how increasing the supply of oil would lower the prices that are pinching U.S. consumers, Cantwell replied: "Oh, we definitely want to move beyond petroleum. And so there will be a supply side offered by the Democrats and it will include everything from battery technology to making sure that we have good home domestic supply, and looking, as I said about moving faster on those kind of things like wind and solar that can help us with our high cost of natural gas."

Her negative point was underlined by Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, who said Democrats are not even permitting debate on legislation and amendments designed to increase the supply of oil and gasoline to U.S. consumers.

"Today, the appropriations markup that was going to include amendments that would open up the outer continental shelf and maybe even shale in Colorado and Utah was canceled," she told the same Bloomberg interviewer. "It wasn't postponed, it was canceled. So that indicates to me that the majority is not going to try to have an open debate, but I hope I'm wrong. If they have an open debate, and we're allowed to have amendments, and we have a balanced plan that includes production in all the sectors, then I believe we can meet this problem in a bipartisan way, and that's what we should be doing for America."

In a second question, Kinsolving asked, "Does the White House believe that our nation's media should strive for neutrality in covering the presidential race? And do you believe that most of them are neutral, or that most of them are biased in support of one candidate?"

"I'll answer the first, but not the second. Yes, I think that everyone should try to cover candidates equally. But it will be up to everybody else to analyze," Perino said.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I bet that reporter is really popular with all of the other reporters...

[Scout26]

Can someone please explain to me how my car is going to run on Wind or Solar.  A giant Mainsail on a pole through the roof ??  Solar cells covering the rest of car ??  How do I go anywhere if there's no wind/calm or it's dark out ??

[longeyes]

The Democrats are behaving like children and like fascists, take your pick.  Actually, contrary to the belief of Romantics, there isn't much difference.

[ilbob]

while i am in general areeemnt that we need to dril, we also need to develop new energy sources if we want to get the economy moving again. our economy is based in large part on expending a lot of energy per capita. we will end up being mexico or europe if we have to continue to reduce our per capita energy consumption.

[Scout26]

while i am in general areeemnt that we need to dril, we also need to develop new energy sources if we want to get the economy moving again. our economy is based in large part on expending a lot of energy per capita. we will end up being mexico or europe if we have to continue to reduce our per capita energy consumption.

I'm all in favor of off-shore (as "out in" or "underwater") nuclear plants turning seawater into hydrogen and pumping it to the coasts for distribution to hydrogen transportation refueling stations.

[Manedwolf]

while i am in general areeemnt that we need to dril, we also need to develop new energy sources if we want to get the economy moving again. our economy is based in large part on expending a lot of energy per capita. we will end up being mexico or europe if we have to continue to reduce our per capita energy consumption.

Europe? No, France of all places has reactors all over.

Embarassing.

[The Annoyed Man]

while i am in general areeemnt that we need to dril, we also need to develop new energy sources if we want to get the economy moving again. our economy is based in large part on expending a lot of energy per capita. we will end up being mexico or europe if we have to continue to reduce our per capita energy consumption.

Europe? No, France of all places has reactors all over.

Embarassing.

Finland, and also IIRC Germany is building new reactors as well. Not us though. For some reason, we've been "blessed" with a green party that's totally batshit insane. The Greens in Germany say "Oh, nuclear, AWESOME, build MOARMOAR!!!111!!". There's a reason why our Green Party is referred to as "the Green Khmers". Luddite-fascists through and through.

[Scout26]

For some reason, we've been "blessed" with a green party that's totally batshit insane.

We'd happily send you all of ours to go along with the ones you have !!!!

[The Annoyed Man]

For some reason, we've been "blessed" with a green party that's totally batshit insane.

We'd happily send you all of ours to go along with the ones you have !!!!

Oh no you don't!  We do not need moar of them. . The ones we have cause enough trouble as it is. I'd have a bunch of the German ones over though to "indoctrinate" our own on the joys of nuclear power.

[MicroBalrog]

Can someone please explain to me how my car is going to run on Wind or Solar.  A giant Mainsail on a pole through the roof ??  Solar cells covering the rest of car ??  How do I go anywhere if there's no wind/calm or it's dark out ??

You use an electric car and charge it from the grid.

Seriously, the level of our society's moral corruption is shown by the fact this has become a political issue.

The method chosen to produce energy should not be a political issue. It should be an issue for investors and power consumers to work out.

If you can maintain a wind farm and make profit from it, more power to ya.

[Regolith]

The biggest problems with electric cars are their range.  I think the best currently available gets 100 or so miles on flat terrain.  That doesn't cut it if you are required to make long distance trips.  For distance, you need a highly concentrated source of energy that can be quickly replenished.  Electricity isn't there, and neither is hydrogen.  So far, only gasoline and diesel make the cut.

Now, what that does mean is that gasoline or diesel/electric hybrids that can be run purely on electric power for short trips, and kick in the fossil fuel when the batteries start to run low are a good idea.  So, for a five mile trip to the store, you wouldn't burn anything, but if you need to run to the next town over, you might burn a few gallons of fuel.

However, even once these cars get popular, you STILL have to deal with the fact that there are a lot of older vehicles out there that drivers simply aren't going to be willing to replace because they do not have the money to do it. That alone is going to mean that gasoline is going to be required for the next couple of decades.

[Manedwolf]

However, even once these cars get popular, you STILL have to deal with the fact that there are a lot of older vehicles out there that drivers simply aren't going to be willing to replace because they do not have the money to do it. That alone is going to mean that gasoline is going to be required for the next couple of decades.

Like me.

I.

do.

not.

WANT.

an electric car.

And there's millions of people just like me.

[MicroBalrog]

Pure-electric mopeds (that's the word, yes?) are already on the market down here, and pretty popular, too.

[Regolith]

However, even once these cars get popular, you STILL have to deal with the fact that there are a lot of older vehicles out there that drivers simply aren't going to be willing to replace because they do not have the money to do it. That alone is going to mean that gasoline is going to be required for the next couple of decades.

Like me.

I.

do.

not.

WANT.

an electric car.

And there's millions of people just like me.

Same here.  Although I don't mind the idea of having a hybrid that I could run just on electricity to do errands around town, I do not have the money to buy one.  Full stop.  Won't for several more years.

And by hybrid, I do not mean something like a Prius.  No way in hell;  I'm not even sure if I'd even fit in one of those.  I'm thinking more something like this:

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/07/23/video-ford-f-150-hybrid-pick-up-truck-gets-41-mpg/

It even gets a boost in torque due to the electric motors.

[mtnbkr]

Cars don't last forever, so I'm quite sure I'll be replacing mine eventually.  That said, I'll gladly consider an electric car as long as:

It is the size and capacity of a current model Corolla (in terms of luggage and human carrying capacity).

It can do at least 70mph in moderately mountainous terrain (think Blue Ridge Mtns).

It can go at least 300 miles on a single charge.

Can be charged at home via a 220V (120v even better) outlet overnight and at special charging stations ("gas" stations) in no more than 15 minutes.

0-60 in less than 15sec with a driver, one passenger, and a moderately full trunk (think average weekend trip).

Those specs will make the car usable to me.  They're not ideal, but it overcomes any hurdles I currently have about the technology.  I can forgo the charging stations as long as I can go at least 500 miles and charge from 120v outlets overnight.

Chris

[wmenorr67]

What about moving freight.  Don't think electric is a good option for that.  Now if you could create a decent vehicle that ran on CNG that could solve that problem.  Otherwise diesel is still the best option for that.

[Waitone]

Those specs will make the car usable to me.  They're not ideal, but it overcomes any hurdles I currently have about the technology.  I can forgo the charging stations as long as I can go at least 500 miles and charge from 120v outlets overnight.

I suggest you add to your specs the requirement for a kevlar lining of the battery compartment.  It will be sorely needed when the batteries blow. 

What intrigues me is the selection of batteries.  Seems I remember from somewhere (like experience for example) the highest demands on an engine and therefore on mileage occurs during acceleration and the greatest of waste of energy is during braking.  That being the case why would not the propeller heads design a hybrid that shifts to a non-internal combustion power source during the time when energy demands are the lowest (steady state cruising)?

Why not supplement the IC source during periods of highest demand?  Why not recover the lost energy expended during braking? 

I would love to have an automotive design engineer explain why flywheel technology and regenerative braking are not part of the solution being developed.  As a concept flywheel energy would be tapped to assist the engine in acceleration.  During steady state driving when the engine is at its highest efficiency the flywheel's energy state would be restores.  Then when the vehicle is braking a hydraulic regenerative system would feed energy back into the flywheel.  My suggestion would be an absolute candy land for mechanical engineers while the electrical guys would have to go sit over in the corner.  The technology is old, proven and reliable.  The biggest downside is as reliable as a flywheel is when it fails catastrophically it is a sight.  Then again a battery fire is ugly also.

Sorry to intrude with my engineer's inquisitive nature.

[mtnbkr]

What about moving freight.  Don't think electric is a good option for that.  Now if you could create a decent vehicle that ran on CNG that could solve that problem.  Otherwise diesel is still the best option for that.

While they do it a bit differently, trains essentially use electric to move freight (they just bring the power station along for the ride).  Anyway, I'm only thinking about individually owned cars/trucks, not heavy freight capabilities.  Just like the hardware for that is fairly specialized and different than what's used in "normal" cars and trucks, it will continue to be so even if people use electric cars for transport.  I see no problem with that.

Chris

[Desertdog]

Another great fuel is propane.  Uses your standard gas engine with added propane tanks, carb, modifacations to ignition system.  Also can be duel fuel, gas/propane.  
It does not get any more, maybe less MPG, but is a cleaner air vehicle if you really give damn.  Advantages of no fuel delution of engine and engine stays clean internally and last longer.  Disadvantage is there are less places to fuel up.

Could be a good fleet fuel as you can have your fueling station on your property.

[mtnbkr]

I heard on the news the other day that there is a local Honda CNG dealership that is technically a "fleet" dealer, but can sell to individuals a "fleet of one" for those wishing to buy a single vehicle for personal use.  At first I thought that was a great idea since I use natural gas at home, but it would have to be a locally driven vehicle only since I wouldn't be able to refuel it easily.

Chris

[longeyes]

Rational men have been exploring, and continue to explore, modern vehicular technology for two centuries.  It's not as if stuff isn't being done, tried, explore.  Constantly.  In depth.

Isn't the problem that the green movement is based on fantasy and, more to the point, emotion?  The enviro-fanatics don't really care what "works," because they have no grounding in science and engineering, only in quasi-religious notions of How The World Ought To Be.  Their movement runs on emotion, and if they had their way, technology would run on emotion too.  Their is really a pre-technology mind-set, back in the good old days of dungeons, dragons, and tyrants.

[lysander]

Rational men have been exploring, and continue to explore, modern vehicular technology for two centuries.  It's not as if stuff isn't being done, tried, explore.  Constantly.  In depth.

We are gonna get there...and we should be trying. Trying very, very hard. Let's at least be real and accept that oil is, at best a mid 20th century power source. Electric, compressed air, fuel cells...it is all coming...and the market will support it, because consumers want it.

[MechAg94]

The only issue with CNG and propane is that fuel leaks can lead to problems.  Natural gas can trap in cover areas or in the passenger compartment.  Propane is heavier than air and can trap in low spots.  There is also the danger that you are driving around with pressurized fuel tanks that will release nice little vapor clouds of flammable gas if they are punctured.  Might be a little more dangerous than gasoline.

Also, natural gas isn't all that cheap these days, but I have no idea of the actual cost comparrison.  The Houston Metro used to have a bunch of buses that ran on LNG.  I think the scrapped the project when the tax incentives ran out. 

My senior design class converted a Dodge minivan to propane for a competition.  We used vapor fuel injectors.  The performance was almost the same as gasoline except you lose some top end power at speed.  We were actually able to rent a minivan and do some 1/4 mile runs to compare.  The range was somewhat less than with gas.  This was all 10 or 12 years ago though. 

[K Frame]

What about moving freight.  Don't think electric is a good option for that.  Now if you could create a decent vehicle that ran on CNG that could solve that problem.  Otherwise diesel is still the best option for that.

They don't call them diesel electric locomotives for nothing.

Essentially the diesel engine on a train powers a HUGE electrical generating plant. IIRC one D-E locomotive can power something like 150 homes.

The power is fed to electric traction motors on each axel, and that is what propells the train.

I suspect, however, you mean overhead gantry wires, the kind the power trollies and the like. No, I don't believe those would be suitable for moving freight. Too many trains pulling too much power at one time could be a problem.