Choosing a career for the money

[White Horseradish]

Elsewhere, I saw this posted:

Law is an excellent career if it is what you love.  If you are not so sure that you love it, and you think it is the ticket for a well-paying job, that ain't necessarily so right now. 

This got me to thinking. More generally, is any career a good choice just because it has the potential to pay well?

I have a brother in law. Sometime ago someone told him that one could make a lot of money in computers. At the time the tech bubble was still going full tilt and it was relatively true. He stuck with that thought, but completely missed the point where the bubble deflated and fresh graduates from the "computer schools" became a dime a dozen. My BIL has the social skills of a hardcore geek, but unfortunately he also has the technical ability of a true artisté.  This made him pick what the thought was the least technical of "computer jobs" and he became a web designer. He spent a lot of money on his education, he isn't making the gobs he thought he would be. He doesn't really like his work. And he is not a very good web designer.

His situation is the result of his peculiarities and bad choices, but it seems to me that these are the kinds of choices that anyone who picks a career just for monetary benefit might make.

[zahc]

I guess it depends on the career, but I don't know if there is any sort of wage/salary job that I would ever "enjoy". It's more of a matter of picking something that's the least soul-crushing. Making money helps to alleviate soul-crushing. So I think money is definitely a positive factor.

Now, some people claim to own businesses, or have jobs that are fun, or where they have a large degree of freedom; however I think that they are mostly legend. Maybe some people have a better ability than me to convince themselves that their job is really what they want to do. Maybe I'm just underpaid.

[grampster]

   I delivered papers as a youth, then worked as a drug store clerk for my last 2 years of high school and 1st year of college.  Then came my first full time job in LE; 7 years.  I left LE and became a general agent in the insurance industry; 37 years.  Every one of those jobs paid adequate money and the insurance job paid really well.

What I learned is that if you find a career or work that makes you happy, that you enjoy and fulfills your needs, and provides and opportunity to fulfill your wants, that is the work that you should strive for.

There is one more lesson that I learned that was the most important.  There are two ways to labor, only two.  One is working for money and the other is working to do the job the best way that it can be done.
If you work for money, you will find yourself ill serving those who pay you, ill serve the actual job you are doing and in the end ill serve yourself.  Working for money makes you a whore.  If you work to do the job the best way that it can be done, the money will come.  It never fails.  If you are the best at what you do, and you love doing it, the money will come.

The above observations were made over a lifetime and I have never seen it play out other than I have described.

[Tallpine]

If you work to do the job the best way that it can be done, the money will come.

I'm not so sure about that 

But then I am kind of a stubborn old coot and not willing to follow the supposed work to various urban hells.

And I'm not sure that moving every six months to two years is really any kind of a life.  I guess some folks might like that sort of thing - new restaurants and new museums and whatever, but really I was just born in the wrong century.

I found the perfect job for me last week, but it only pays $800 a month, plus a place to live.  I'm not sure if they let you bring your own horses with you ...?

[zahc]

I'm not so sure about that 

Neither am I. I've seen too many incompetents climb up organizations through social engineering, and too many brilliant people stuck in lower ranking positions to fully believe that part of grampsters advice (the guarantee part).

[grampster]

Yeah, but you see, all parts of the puzzle have to fit.  Ya gotta love what your'e doing, opportunity to succeed needs to exist and you gotta do it the best way you can.  Opportunity has to be part of the mix.  If you hire on to a salary job with not much opportunity to succeed except by kissing heiney, then I'll bet that job is merely a stepping stone to something else.

Working for the money usually will put you in the same category with the execudrones we all despise, who advance due to connection and the Peter Principal and stabbing their coworkers in the back.

[Monkeyleg]

I got into photography because I loved it. The money followed as I became a better photographer (and went when the industry went downhill).

For me, enjoying the work is primary, although a decent income is required. When I look at the jobs friends, relatives and neighbors have, I feel lucky to be doing what I am.

My BIL has a small plumbing/HVAC company, employs seven guys, and makes a ton of money. He really doesn't enjoy anything except making money. He could afford any car he wants, but he drives a truck because it serves a purpose. He doesn't do anything I can see to enjoy the fruits of his labor. He doesn't enjoy music, or movies, or art, or sports...just making money. That's just foreign to me.

I'm now seeing people I've known for decades going into retirement. I'm envious until I imagine doing what they had to do for thirty or forty years.

[grampster]

I know guys that fit Dick's BIL's mold.  They are usually angry, they're cheap and they don't enjoy much.  Too busy counting the greenbacks.  They usually shaft their customers too.  One of the guys who enjoyed his work that I knew of was a guy who had the nickname of Windows.  He had a large clientel and all he did was wash the windows of their businesses.  He always had a smile on his face and he whistled a lot.  He also had a pile of dough and wasn't afraid to spend it.

[mtnbkr]

Neither am I. I've seen too many incompetents climb up organizations through social engineering, and too many brilliant people stuck in lower ranking positions to fully believe that part of grampsters advice (the guarantee part).

I've been out of school, working, for 14 years now.  What I've seen regarding the first group you mention are usually people that are able to achieve organizational goals by management or organizational ability.  Of the 2nd group, they typically fail because they lack the people skills to work well with others or have some other flaw that dooms them to grunt work, regardless of their skills (unreliable, unable to communication, lack of focus, etc).  The people that combine the soft and hard skills typically fly up through the ranks rapidly.  I've worked with several folks like that.

As for myself, I got into IT from a love of computers and technology.  I've since burned out on it.  Also, to really thrive in this industry, you have to be willing to continuously work, tinker, and be an IT hobbyist on your own time.  I still tinker at home, but not like some of my colleagues (not uncommon for folks to have their own labs at home).  That's ok because I've found I enjoy the "service delivery" side of IT.  I enjoy working with customers to determine what their operational issues are and to find solutions.  I then work with engineering teams to deliver those solutions.  

Chris

[MicroBalrog]

I don't know about careers.

I have a job I'm happy with right now. Not because it pays mega-oodles of cash - I end up earning about $1000 a month, which isn't much - but it allows me to work from home and set my own hours. I'm a free man in ways I could only imagine three months ago.

[MechAg94]

IMO, if you love or at least like what you are doing, you will be more willing to put the extra time and effort into it to get the job done right and quickly.  Not only that, but you will enjoy learning what you need to learn to be the best at your job.  Those things pay off eventually.

[Tallpine]

Yeah, but you see, all parts of the puzzle have to fit.  Ya gotta love what your'e doing, opportunity to succeed needs to exist and you gotta do it the best way you can.  Opportunity has to be part of the mix.

Yeah, I was there a few years ago: working mostly from home, making good money with lots of benefits, great relationships with all my colleagues (many of whom I never met face to face).

Then the puzzle got knocked off the table.  That company closed a whole division, but one of my project managers who jumped to another outfit picked me up to do some work: part time, no benefits except 401K, telecommute and a week here and there on customer's site.  I really liked that even better because I had more free time, but lately there has been nothing.

It's 120 miles (1.5 hrs each way) round trip to town, so it takes a pretty good job to even break even on commuting, considering destroying a car on these back roads every year or two.

[Monkeyleg]

Grampster, my BIL is a very easy-going guy, very likable, soft spoken, and always willing to help just about anyone. He doesn't fit the stereotype at all. It's just that he doesn't seem to enjoy anything except working and making money.

I know another guy who does fit the mold. Owns his own business, is always bragging about his money, and is pretty much as cold-hearted as they come.

[Jamisjockey]

I think the decision to make is if the job is tolerable.  You couldn't pay me enough to be a proctologist.  But there are plenty of other careers I'd probably do for enough money, that aren't necessarily things I "love".

[Grandpa Shooter]

I worked for 46 years always doing what I wanted to do, and never for the money.  When the job didn't suit me anymore, I moved on.  I opened and closed 2 business owned by other people who thought my ability was their road to riches, and when I was gone, they couldn't keep the business open anymore.

I opened and closed 3 businesses I owned.  I worked by myself, or with one other person of my choosing.  I worked like a dog, 70 hours a week on average.  I owed nothing to anyone.  I made my choices and profited or failed by my choices.  I did not kiss anyone's butt, either customer or supplier.

I found over the years that choices influenced by and made because of money were with out fail lousy choices.  In the end they just made people, including me, miserable.  Now I am retired with hardly a penny to my name and am happier than I have ever been, especially when I made good money.  When you have money, you have friends you don't really need.  If you have friends despite having no money, you really have friends.

[lee n. field]

Sometime ago someone told him that one could make a lot of money in computers.

Yeah, maybe if you got in in 1985 or so.

I like what I do, most days, but it'll never, ever make me rich, or even tolerably well off.

[grampster]

Dick, my comments were a bit obtuse as I didn't mean to imply your BIL was a bad guy.  My reference point was intending to be about the fixation on the money.  Sorry.  I just know a few guys who are so caught up in money that it makes them not nice people.

[Monkeyleg]

I just know a few guys who are so caught up in money that it makes them not nice people.

Oh, yeah. That's why I mentioned the second guy. He owns a gun store. Second Amendment? Who cares? If there's a law passed that restricts gun rights but benefits him (ban on private sales, for example), he's all for it.

[Myself]

I worked a lot of jobs when I was young.  Never stayed at one very long if I did not like it.  Spent a lot of time broke because of it.  My first job in manufacturing was an eye opener.  It was such a screwed up company I could instantly see many things I could fix right away.  Those silly people wouldn't let a 20 year old run things!  I ended up quiting out of disgust.  They did not last much longer anyway.

Getting married settled me down some.  I had just got a job at a small manufacturing company in the aerospace industry.  They gave me opportunities to grow and learn.  After several years I ended up being appointed a manufacturing engineer because I could consistently figure out better ways to build things.  I lasted a record 11 years there.

I then tried middle management at a larger company.  What a mistake.  I just couldn't understand why making the best possible product wasn't a priority there.  I only lasted 2 years.  It did convince me that I had to try doing things my way and the only way to pull it off was to do it myself. 

I partnered with a friend I had made at the 11 year job and we set out trying to found a new manufacturing company.  After several years of constant work and no earnings the business started to succeed.  Eventually we ended up making a lot of money.  That really was secondary though.

The whole experience was the most satisfying and frustrating thing I had ever done.  Eventually someone made us an offer we couldn't refuse for the whole operation.  I wish I could have kept working but we had 1 too many chiefs.  Someday I hope to find something else I enjoy as much.

[grampster]

"I then tried middle management at a larger company.  What a mistake.  I just couldn't understand why making the best possible product wasn't a priority there.  I only lasted 2 years.  It did convince me that I had to try doing things my way and the only way to pull it off was to do it myself." 


I worked for a very large insurance company as a General Agent.  What I learned was that management usually only talked about producing great products and giving the best service.  What they really meant was they wanted short term large profits and protecting their fiefdom's even at the expense of success.  Most companies succeed in spite of their management.  Too bad.

[White Horseradish]

Yeah, maybe if you got in in 1985 or so.

I like what I do, most days, but it'll never, ever make me rich, or even tolerably well off.

Same here. I am keeping head above water, but not that much more. I tried explaining this to the guy, but he was convinced I was just blowing smoke and that I was really on the way to big bucks myself. He also couldn't get it through his head that despite both jobs involving computers an entry level webmonkey is not the same as a Cisco-certified admin.

[Tallpine]

You couldn't pay me enough to be a proctologist.

Being a tax accountant is about the same thing, figuratively speaking  


Years ago I used to make something of a living tipping over several tons of wood, bark, and needles, and making it (usually) land right where it needed to.  At one point, before OSHA and environmentalists ruined it, it wasn't too bad money.  

But the rush of air through those falling branches...  

[P5 Guy]

Years ago I thought I wanted a career. As I matured I found that all I really wanted was pay checks. Now I can't wait to retire.
Out of the rat race for me.

[lee n. field]

Same here. I am keeping head above water, but not that much more. I tried explaining this to the guy, but he was convinced I was just blowing smoke and that I was really on the way to big bucks myself. He also couldn't get it through his head that despite both jobs involving computers an entry level webmonkey is not the same as a Cisco-certified admin.

There's a self published little book out there I read a while back, let me see if I can find it.  Ya, here we go: Seven Lean Years by Tom Nadeau.  "5 used from $.09".  A short book length rant/reality check about how life in the computer/IT trenches ain't what it's cracked up to be.  Worth a read.

[Pharmacology]

I know a lot of under-grads with over-zealous parents who are pushing them into the medical field. These kids fill out applications for every medical / pharmacy / veterinary / etc...  school in the state.
They think they'll be "successful" and have great lives.

What they're really doing is pushing their kids into the 4 most soul crushing, happiness draining years of their lives. All in the name of a job that'll afford them frustration, and upper middleclass pay.
 Honestly, if it hadn't been my desire since I was a kid, I would've quit already. Heck, I still think about it sometimes.

I absolutely do not recommend pharmacy school to those pre-everything kids.