Author Topic: Great gods and lil fishes  (Read 3417 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Great gods and lil fishes
« on: January 27, 2015, 12:10:59 AM »
This is an interesting saga of the housing bubble and weird decisions
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/01/26/distressed-family-swamped-by-an-underwater-home/?hpid=z5


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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CypherNinja

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Re: Great gods and lil fishes
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2015, 01:02:18 AM »
Sweet Jeebus, reading that was like watching a train-wreck.  :facepalm:
“Fear of death increases in exact proportion to increase in wealth,” Hemingway once said. Today, many of us have become rich in the currency of cowardice. We have so many things and so few experiences. We are desperate to live as long as possible, not as large as possible. We are so afraid to say goodbye to the world that we never say hello.
-Marty Beckerman (from a Wired article of all things)

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Great gods and lil fishes
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2015, 01:22:49 AM »
I have a hard time generating much sympathy for folks that put themselves is such a situation.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Firethorn

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Re: Great gods and lil fishes
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2015, 03:29:28 AM »
I have a hard time generating much sympathy for folks that put themselves is such a situation.

My thought:  6 years of not making mortgage payments, $112,740 worth of income, they should be able to afford something when they're finally kicked out.

Strategic default is a thing.

Edit:  What do others think about the idea of them coming from a culture that doesn't really have lending?  It sounds like they didn't have the skills to recognize the risks of entering said debt, where most Americans should realize it much better.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 03:34:07 AM by Firethorn »

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re:
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2015, 06:35:44 AM »
And they are extra prone to following the leader. That's what bit a lot of folks
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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wmenorr67

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Re: Great gods and lil fishes
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2015, 06:44:24 AM »
Didn't read til the end but why keep the second home or did they eventually sell it?
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Great gods and lil fishes
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2015, 08:26:23 AM »
I think they were using it as income.
I knew a couple who had a 3 k mortgage
She was a waitress at holiday inn he worked construction. They were incredibly house poor. Houses behind me have 3 and 4 k mortgages


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Ben

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Re: Great gods and lil fishes
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2015, 10:04:19 AM »
Sweet Jeebus, reading that was like watching a train-wreck.  :facepalm:

No kidding.

While I couldn't find comments for this story, I read the other stories in the series and the comments sections there. Interestingly (for the Post's general readership), while the Post seemed to be doing the "evil bank" angle, most of the comments were calling out the idiots that bit off more than they could chew.

"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Great gods and lil fishes
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2015, 10:30:18 AM »
It was part of a larger piece focused on that one area of pg known as the new Gold Coast .
I think the post chose this couple because they were one that folks might be less inclined to condemn.
There was/is a whole industry built around hustling with mortgages and houses to "get your piece"


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Ben

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Re: Great gods and lil fishes
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2015, 10:34:02 AM »
There was/is a whole industry built around hustling with mortgages and houses to "get your piece"

There's one of those for drugs too. There's also a "just say no" program.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Great gods and lil fishes
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2015, 11:18:56 AM »
There are actually " counselors/advisors" who went around teaching folks how to hustle , for a small fee of course. And often they were affiliated with or recommended by churches/pastors who served the appropriate demographic


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Boomhauer

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Re: Great gods and lil fishes
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2015, 11:29:46 AM »
Excuse me while I walk around for about 15 minutes cussing like a sailor.

Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

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the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

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BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Great gods and lil fishes
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2015, 11:46:47 AM »
Go with god my son


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

KD5NRH

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Re: Great gods and lil fishes
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2015, 01:08:08 PM »
My thought:  6 years of not making mortgage payments, $112,740 worth of income, they should be able to afford something when they're finally kicked out.

For that, they could buy a well maintained 3/2 brick house on a good sized lot down here, or a reasonable doublewide on 5-7 acres.

There are a lot of families around here with $75-150k household income living in DW trailers because they were able to get the acreage they wanted without a mortgage, or with only a 10 year note.  Then they start saving up and building the house over 8-10 years after everything else is settled in.  In the end, they build the house for the family they originally had just in time for retirement, and finish about the time their youngest settles on a major in college. 

Ultimately, though, they have a great house and no debt...if they stick to the plan.  Some get tempted by easy loans, and end up never being able to retire, plus leaving their kids a house that's still only half paid off, if that much.

RevDisk

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Re: Great gods and lil fishes
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2015, 01:09:17 PM »
Quote
With $257,776 owed on the Germantown house, $969,037 owed on the Fairwood house, $55,000 in personal loans and the student loan debt, the couple who had never owned a credit card before moving to the United States now owe more than $1.3 million.

So, they lived off debt for X years and are now upset that they have to pay up.

Honestly, the people that lent them the money are the true idiots. I'd be shocked if the Boateng family had even a 300 credit rating. Lending $1.3 million to someone with THAT much of a credit risk says the lending institutions were dumb as a box of bricks.

That said, anyone in the Boateng family could have picked up a book on finances. Hell, they could have gotten an MBA in business for 10% of the money they borrowed. At a certain point, they were either willfully ignorant or gaming the system. Probably a mix of both and just thought "Yay, free money!"  They could declare bankruptcy, get through the next couple years of financial pain and be absolutely fine in a couple years. Admittedly, that'd require sensible housing, car and spending habits. But being unable to get any sort of lending or credit would probably be in their best long term interests.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Great gods and lil fishes
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2015, 01:40:16 PM »
His credit was more than double what you imagined. It's mentioned in the article.
I bet they were either directly coached how to game the system or mentored by someone who was.
They go by the name of " living the dream "


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

MechAg94

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Re: Great gods and lil fishes
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2015, 01:46:37 PM »
Honestly, the people that lent them the money are the true idiots. I'd be shocked if the Boateng family had even a 300 credit rating. Lending $1.3 million to someone with THAT much of a credit risk says the lending institutions were dumb as a box of bricks.
IMO, this is probably the biggest problems.  We have a govt regulating the system and buying loans and we bail them out when they screw up.  The system is set up as a big game all the way up.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Firethorn

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Re: Great gods and lil fishes
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2015, 02:16:50 PM »
Didn't read til the end but why keep the second home or did they eventually sell it?

They were using it as a rental property for more income/asset appreciation.  Unfortunately, their selection of their first tenants sucked and never paid a dime.

I bet they were either directly coached how to game the system or mentored by someone who was.

Of course they were, to the tune of $750/month for a while.  FTA: "The couple said someone — they do not remember who — referred them to the Brooklyn-based Litvin Law Firm, which specializes in foreclosure defense. The Boatengs said they started paying Litvin $750 monthly. This continued for two years, for a total of $15,000, they said."

$750/month doesn't fix the problem, of course, but it's cheap rent compared to the $4-5k payments the bank wanted on the reset ARM loans.

I get the feeling from the article that it was a lot like the fable of the frog and the pan of water - dump a frog into hot water and it'll jump out.  Heat the pan ever so slowly and you'll cook it alive.

Reading between the lines they got suckered from the beginning, blinding by the bling of a home, only a dream in their home country.  Then the idea of jettisoning the home never occurred to them, nor was suggested by the 'trusted' agencies they were referred to by their church.

At this point, I think they should declare bankruptcy.  They owe ~3X the money the house is worth.  A judge should allow them to jettison most of the debt, move into the other house and work on paying it off.

At least it sounds like they're now working with a certified non-ripoff artist company to get this stuff straightened out(IE stick as much of it to the bank as possible).  Personally, I think that the bank SHOULD take a wash(and with the selling of their loan, already anticipated), for being stupid enough to lend them the money in the first place.


KD5NRH

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Re: Great gods and lil fishes
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2015, 02:26:18 PM »
Of course they were, to the tune of $750/month for a while.  FTA: "The couple said someone — they do not remember who — referred them to the Brooklyn-based Litvin Law Firm, which specializes in foreclosure defense. The Boatengs said they started paying Litvin $750 monthly. This continued for two years, for a total of $15,000, they said."

$15k would get them half paid on a fixer upper down the road from here that would be a great house if someone would put in the effort.  It needs a lot of cosmetic work, and wouldn't be comfortable until about another $5-10k got spent on new doors and windows, but last time I looked at it, it was certainly livable.

Jocassee

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Re: Great gods and lil fishes
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2015, 02:49:23 PM »
Reads like a checklist of things not to do.

I literally cannot think of a single thing they could have done to make it worse.
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Scout26

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Re: Great gods and lil fishes
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2015, 03:00:14 PM »
Hmmm, Interest Only Balloon or ARM.  :facepalm:
He Lied about not having a job at closing  :facepalm:
Buying Waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy more house then they could afford.  :facepalm:
Then borrowing more money for the Mary Key business (and buying metric buttloads of initial inventory when they require you buy X amount each moth or quarter.)  :facepalm:
Then taking out student loans. :facepalm:

I have zero sympathy.

Sell the Fairview home (or send the bank some jingle mail)
Move back into the town house
Work out payment terms with the remaining creditors and/or go BK.

 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
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for the motherland.

KD5NRH

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Re: Great gods and lil fishes
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2015, 03:33:24 PM »
Then borrowing more money for the Mary Key business (and buying metric buttloads of initial inventory when they require you buy X amount each moth or quarter.)  :facepalm:

I lost track of how many times I had to stop my ex wife from trying to borrow thousands to buy more MK inventory.  As it was, she cleaned out our savings two or three times, crowing about how much it was making, ignoring that it was still way in the red and never even came close to breaking even.

Quote
Then taking out student loans. :facepalm:

Not necessarily a bad idea, but only a good idea if the expected net result is very positive.


Jocassee

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Re: Great gods and lil fishes
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2015, 04:11:41 PM »
On a side note...is the Mary Kay thing a racket?

Never heard it called as such...but I had a friend try it who is not particularly smart, so I assumed it was one.
I shall not die alone, alone, but kin to all the powers,
As merry as the ancient sun and fighting like the flowers.


Jocassee

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Re: Great gods and lil fishes
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2015, 04:35:53 PM »
I shall not die alone, alone, but kin to all the powers,
As merry as the ancient sun and fighting like the flowers.