Author Topic: Rotating tires  (Read 4139 times)

zxcvbob

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,254
Rotating tires
« on: October 20, 2012, 03:29:40 PM »
I've always either just not rotated tires, or I take them to Walmart to get it done -- unless I have a free rotate coupon from the dealer.  Went to Walmart early Thursday evening and they were too busy.  Went to the other Walmart yesterday afternoon and they were too slow; I waited about 10 minutes just to ask the guy behind the counter how long it would take, and I gave up (slowest guy I've ever seen.)  Besides, he was selling a set of tires that would have been ahead of me, and he told them it would be about an hour.

Today I decided to just do it myself.  With one jack and one jackstand I finished the job in 20 minutes, and that's without even getting out the impact wrench.  Take off one tire and put the jackstand there.  Take that tire to where it goes, jack it up, swap the tires, take THAT tire to the next position.  Repeat.  When all four tires are back on, remove the jackstand, and when the car is back on the ground torque all the lugnuts.



I always thought it was more trouble than that unless you had a rack to pick the whole car up at once.  As a bonus, you get an opportunity to inspect the brakes.
"It's good, though..."

Lee

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,181
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2012, 04:14:11 PM »
I had mine done last week. I just called ahead and set up an appointment.  Took them about 20 minutes, and was ~$24, tax included.  I'm getting too old to be lugging wheels and tires around.

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,317
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2012, 04:24:55 PM »
I'm getting too old, but I don't allow anyone to touch the lugnuts on my vehicles. The factory lugnuts have thin, stainless steel caps crimped onto them, and a few sessions with those heavy-duty impact guns the shops use tears them up beyond any hope of reuse. Plus, uneven torque on the lugs of a wheel often cause the brake rotors to warp. I remove the lugnuts by hand, rotate my own tires, and install the lugnuts with a torque wrench.

My oldest streetable vehicle is a 1988 Cherokee with 287,000 miles on it, and I think 18 out of the 20 lugnuts are still the originals. (My brother screwed up two of them with a burp gun many years ago. He won't use it on his own cars, but he didn't mind using it on mine. I no longer allow l'il bro to touch my vehicles.)
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,161
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2012, 04:47:30 PM »
I'm also in the "getting to old to bother" category. I get my tires at a really good place in town and they include free rotations for the life of the tires. I either take the vehicle in at lunchtime and grab a sandwich at the butcher shop next door while I wait, or do it on my way home from work and just surf their free wireless while I wait (usually 30-45min, they're always really busy).
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2012, 10:05:29 PM »
I'm also in the "getting to old to bother" category. I get my tires at a really good place in town and they include free rotations for the life of the tires. I either take the vehicle in at lunchtime and grab a sandwich at the butcher shop next door while I wait, or do it on my way home from work and just surf their free wireless while I wait (usually 30-45min, they're always really busy).

Since I started to buy my tires from Discount Tires, I let them rotate them for free.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Gewehr98

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 11,010
  • Yee-haa!
    • Neural Misfires (Blog)
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2012, 11:17:25 PM »
Wait'll you throw the spare into rotation, too!   ;)
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

http://neuralmisfires.blogspot.com

"Never squat with your spurs on!"

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,478
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2012, 09:10:14 AM »
I've always used the spare for rotation...

Because I don't have jack stands.

Jack up tire one, put the spare on, drop the car, and start moving the tires.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

dogmush

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,951
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2012, 09:39:48 AM »
Move to staggered tire sizes.
Never rotate tires again
??????
Profit.

Besides even if I could, my back tires don't last long enough to rotate.

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,317
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2012, 09:49:31 AM »
I've always used the spare for rotation...

Because I don't have jack stands.

Jack up tire one, put the spare on, drop the car, and start moving the tires.

I used to not include the spare, because that way I would only need to buy four tires instead of five at replacement time. But ... tires last longer now, and by the time I need to replace a set, more than likely the particular model that came on the vehicle is no longer offered. Since I drive Jeep Cherokees with white lettering on the sidewalls, I like them to match. So now I do a 5-tire rotation and replace all five when they get to the end of the line.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

geronimotwo

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,796
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2012, 10:31:04 AM »
congrats on getting it done!  i buy my tires as a pair.  i have the new ones put on the front, and rotate the fronts to the back.  i have been buying  better cooper tires (80k) for the last 8 years, but i am thinking i am only getting about half that life out of them.  i wonder if better rotation practice would help with that.  they don't seem to be wearing enevenly, and i did get an alignment the time before last.
make the world idiot proof.....and you will have a world full of idiots. -g2

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2012, 11:27:14 AM »
Can't rotate five if you have one of those danged wheelbarrow tire spares, and no room for a larger wheel  :mad:
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

zxcvbob

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,254
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2012, 02:14:56 PM »
I have a 12 year old brand new tire for a spare on my truck.  I should probably replace it even though it's never been on the ground.  OTOH it has never been exposed to sunlight.

I can't add it to the rotation now because I changed tire sizes.  (also the wheel probably doesn't match -- even if it once did)  If I'd thought it through I would have done a 5-tire rotation from the beginning and I would have gotten an extra year or two from that first set.

NHTSA says the absolute life expectancy of a tire is 10 years.  Maybe I'll change it at 20...
"It's good, though..."

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2012, 05:31:42 PM »
Quote
NHTSA says the absolute life expectancy of a tire is 10 years.  Maybe I'll change it at 20...

A few years ago when I was farming for a neighbor, one of the tires on one of the implements was about 50 years old  :lol:


Our Suburban has four aluminum wheels and the spare is a standard steel wheel, so although they are all the same size I tend the keep the spare as the spare.  Otherwise, we have so many flats on these back roads that we could pretty well rotate the tires just by putting on the spare, and then used the fixed one as the spare.  ;/
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,317
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2012, 06:15:13 PM »
I have a 12 year old brand new tire for a spare on my truck.  I should probably replace it even though it's never been on the ground.  OTOH it has never been exposed to sunlight.

I can't add it to the rotation now because I changed tire sizes.  (also the wheel probably doesn't match -- even if it once did)  If I'd thought it through I would have done a 5-tire rotation from the beginning and I would have gotten an extra year or two from that first set.

NHTSA says the absolute life expectancy of a tire is 10 years.  Maybe I'll change it at 20...

No you won't.

I recently mounted up a set of radial tires that were just about 10 years old but only about 40% worn and put them on a new-to-me used Cherokee I recently bought. I stopped by a friend's house a week or so later to chat. He's a VW shop foreman, and of German ancestry, so he is "picky." He started looking at my tires and said, "You're not planning on driving home, are you?"

Of course, I was ... so I asked why. And he nicely pointed out that the sidewalls all had a neat crack, running all the way around, about a quarter of an inch out from the edge of the wheel. I didn't see it when I had the tires mounted, and if it had been there I'm sure I would have seen at least one of them. So I had to bite the bullet and spring for a set of new tires.

I have another pair of tires that came off an older Cherokee that I saved because they had excellent tread left. Can't use 'em -- the sidewalls are all cracked just from sitting.

Turns out it's actually better for the tires to drive on them. The flexing keeps the rubber "alive" (or something like that -- it has to do with distributing some chemical through the rubber.) It also helps to periodically spray the sidewalls with "tire foam." It sort of cleans, a little, but it also has silicone in it that helps preserve the rubber. I spray the outer sidewalls at least every two weeks, and I spray the inside sidewall when I rotate the tires.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,801
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2012, 10:50:11 PM »
My last truck had a steel wheel for the spare.  I don't even know if the spare on my new truck is steel or not.  It is due for rotation though. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

rcnixon

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 250
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2012, 12:52:23 AM »
Years ago, I learned never to change the rotating direction of radial tires.  Radial tires take a "set" in their rolling direction.  This means that the tires don't change sides on the car.  I have the shop move the rears to the front and that's it.  If the spare is roadable and has a matching wheel, it goes in the right-side rotation as the road crown wears the right-side tires more.  I have had a tire last 105 thousand miles.  It was a right-side tire that spent a lot of time on the rear of a front-drive car as the result of road hazards getting the right front.  If the spare gets on the left side, it gets changed out for a new tire ASAP.

Race car tires were NEVER changed from side to side although they didn't last very long.  Air leaks right through the sidewalls of race tires.  Most race cars I worked on had a set of the cheapest steel wheels with baloney skin tires just for on the trailer.  The race tires and mag (real magnesium) wheels leaked air and the car would be loose in the hold-downs after about three or four hours.  Finding that out for the first time was pretty scary as the race car rocked back and forth on the trailer until we got the rig stopped.  The race wheels and tires were mounted on the car during prep before scrutineering.  Every lug nut was hand-tightened and torqued to the wheel manufacturer's spec.  I do that today with the alloy wheels on our street cars.  When they come from the tire shop, out comes the jack and the torque wrench.

Russ

zxcvbob

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,254
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2012, 01:01:52 AM »
I learned that years ago too.  I'm not sure it's true anymore; maybe for full-time 4WD (does anything have full-time 4WD?)
"It's good, though..."

RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,841
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2012, 01:17:34 AM »
I put new tires all the way around on my M-715 a few months ago. One of the tires I retired was a recap with a date code of 1964 on the sidewall. Dang tire was older than the truck.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2012, 10:04:32 AM »
I put new tires all the way around on my M-715 a few months ago. One of the tires I retired was a recap with a date code of 1964 on the sidewall. Dang tire was older than the truck.

Yeah, could be that radials don't have as long a shelf life as the old bias ply  ???
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,478
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2012, 04:03:29 PM »
Let me clarify...

I ONLY use the spare so as to keep the car from slamming onto the pavement when I'm swapping the main tires.

My cars have always had the donut spare, so my process is get spare out of trunk, rotate tires, put spare back in trunk.

PROFIT!
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

brimic

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,270
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2012, 05:46:24 PM »
I don't rotate, I usually have directional tires on my vehicles, so the only rotation is front to back anyway.On FWD cars with traction control, the wear on the drive tires isn't significantly different than the rear tires.
I am very cogniscent about alignment- if I hit something or otherwise cause the alignment to go off, I get it in for alignment befoer the tires are damaged. Same with suspension parts- if anything is loose or worn, I change it out immediately.
It isn't worth my time to do it myself, and the nearest shop that does rotations is 10 miles away. If I had to spend $5 in gas every 7500 miles or to rotate tires, the extra life I would get out of the tires wouldn't be worth the expense in gas alone, let alone my time.

Quote
No you won't.

I recently mounted up a set of radial tires that were just about 10 years old but only about 40% worn and put them on a new-to-me used Cherokee I recently bought. I stopped by a friend's house a week or so later to chat. He's a VW shop foreman, and of German ancestry, so he is "picky." He started looking at my tires and said, "You're not planning on driving home, are you?"

Of course, I was ... so I asked why. And he nicely pointed out that the sidewalls all had a neat crack, running all the way around, about a quarter of an inch out from the edge of the wheel. I didn't see it when I had the tires mounted, and if it had been there I'm sure I would have seen at least one of them. So I had to bite the bullet and spring for a set of new tires.

I have another pair of tires that came off an older Cherokee that I saved because they had excellent tread left. Can't use 'em -- the sidewalls are all cracked just from sitting.

Turns out it's actually better for the tires to drive on them. The flexing keeps the rubber "alive" (or something like that -- it has to do with distributing some chemical through the rubber.) It also helps to periodically spray the sidewalls with "tire foam." It sort of cleans, a little, but it also has silicone in it that helps preserve the rubber. I spray the outer sidewalls at least every two weeks, and I spray the inside sidewall when I rotate the tires.

Yep, if you get cracks in the sidewalls, the tires are toast. Same thing with cracks between tread- the tires are getting hard and brittle and aren't going to hold the road when it gets wet if you have cracks in the tread.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2012, 06:44:17 PM »
...
Yep, if you get cracks in the sidewalls, the tires are toast. Same thing with cracks between tread- the tires are getting hard and brittle and aren't going to hold the road when it gets wet if you have cracks in the tread.

Even worse when the tube is bulging out through the crack  =D
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

brimic

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,270
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2012, 07:02:07 PM »
Quote
Even worse when the tube is bulging out through the crack

That's what she said.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,317
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2012, 07:31:04 PM »
Years ago, I learned never to change the rotating direction of radial tires.  Radial tires take a "set" in their rolling direction.  This means that the tires don't change sides on the car. 

That was the industry's advice regarding radial tires up until approximately 1990. Then it reversed. I bought a 1988 Jeep Cherokee in 1988 and the owner's manual called for rotating the tires front-to-back on the same side. Then in 2000 I bought a 2000 Cherokee, and I was surprised to see that the recommended rotation pattern was the same 'X' pattern I had grown up with when we drove on bias-ply tires. My brother used to work for Firestone a long time ago and knows a lot more about tire technology than I do, so I asked him about this. He said the 'X' pattern is far better, but in the early days on American-made radials (not Michelin or Pirelli) the manufacturers had problems making the carcasses sufficiently uniform to react well when X rotated -- so they went with same-side rotation while they perfected their manufacturing processes.

American radial tires are much, much better than they were in the 1970s and 80s. I've been X rotating my radial tires for years and there have been no ill effects.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

birdman

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,831
Re: Rotating tires
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2012, 07:44:12 PM »
I can't rotate at all...damn assymmetric tread dissimilar sized tires...and only 12-14k miles out of each :(
Ugh, $2k/yr in tires