Author Topic: WARNING! In Ohio, pot possession makes firearms a felony  (Read 9664 times)

T.O.M.

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WARNING! In Ohio, pot possession makes firearms a felony
« on: December 09, 2008, 04:32:45 PM »
Here's a little tidbit everyone needs to know if you live in Ohio.  Many prosecutors are pushing this one through.  just heard about it in the courthouse...

Under the Weapons Under Disability statute, it is a felony to possess a firearm if you have been convicted or adjudicated delinquent for any offense involving the use or possession of illegal drugs.  A lot of prosecutors are now looking to past records for any possession of marihuana offenses, including minor misdemeanor possession charges, and using this to push through a felony Weapons Under Disibility charge.  What will be interesting to see is how this balances out with the fact that most courts have ruled that minor misdemeanors are not crimes.

FYI, watch your records...
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MicroBalrog

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Re: WARNING! In Ohio, pot possession makes firearms a felony
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2008, 04:56:01 PM »
...see, this is why I opposed the no-firearms-for-felons stuff. It was bound to expand.
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Standing Wolf

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Re: WARNING! In Ohio, pot possession makes firearms a felony
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2008, 06:10:37 PM »
Quote
It was bound to expand.

Hey, well said! You've just summarized government in five works.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

Tallpine

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Re: WARNING! In Ohio, pot possession makes firearms a felony
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2008, 06:13:20 PM »
Yeah, but "I wasn't a pot smoker so I didn't say anything..."   :rolleyes:
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Re: WARNING! In Ohio, pot possession makes firearms a felony
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2008, 06:17:46 PM »
Boy, it's a good thing too.  You know how all those ex-potheads are homicidal maniacs.   :rolleyes:    This is STUPID
In the world of science, there is physics.  Everything else is stamp collecting.  -Ernest Rutherford

zahc

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Re: WARNING! In Ohio, pot possession makes firearms a felony
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2008, 08:23:22 PM »
I'm not sure I even know anyone, or work with anyone that hasn't smoked weed at one time or another. Except me of course....
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Tallpine

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Re: WARNING! In Ohio, pot possession makes firearms a felony
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2008, 11:19:21 PM »
As long as you don't inhale ...  :rolleyes:
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Sindawe

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Re: WARNING! In Ohio, pot possession makes firearms a felony
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2008, 12:28:02 AM »
I wonder, is it crime to trigger the brain's cannibinoid receptors while lucid dreaming?  It feels like getting baked, but the source chemicals are entirely endogenous.

Quote
This is STUPID.

/emphatic cough
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MicroBalrog

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Re: WARNING! In Ohio, pot possession makes firearms a felony
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2008, 05:46:12 AM »
PHARMACEUTICALS, GUNS, & GOVERNMENT = PEOPLE BANS

by Dr. Paul Gallant and Dr. Joanne D. Eisen
Dillon Precision’s Blue Press, January 2009

In Nassau County, New York, a revised handgun application went into effect in January 2007. A new question asks: “Have you used or still use narcotics, tranquilizers or anti depressant [sic] medication? If YES, record doctor's name, address and phone number, (attach).” If the applicant answers in the affirmative, a list of those medications is also required.

The new question may have been added as a means of increasing public safety, but Nassau County licensees have maintained a nearly spotless record in this area. A more likely explanation is that this could be the next practical step in denying exercise of the Second Amendment.
The recent Heller Supreme Court decision gave gun-owners a tripartite victory: firearm possession is an individual right, a complete ban on firearms is unconstitutional, and the right to self-defense with firearms is affirmed. The Supreme Court nevertheless left plenty of wiggle room for the firearm-prohibitionists, by allowing for “reasonable regulation.”

“Reasonable” is a very big word, and it opens the way to the eradication of our rights. If firearms can no longer be banned, then expanding the list of prohibited persons is the next tactic for firearm-hostile politicians to explore. That subjective factor of “reasonable” regulation could cast an extremely wide net.

Alan Chwick, a Nassau County Second Amendment activist and Managing Coach at the Freeport Junior Club, first advised us of the handgun application change. He also told us that “Richard Aborn, formerly of Handgun Control, Inc., was recently appointed Assistant District Attorney for the county, and has been providing advice to Nassau County officials,” who are, themselves, notoriously firearm-hostile.

Firearm-prohibitionists like Aborn are experts in the use of fear-mongering to further their agenda. And that fear is being exploited in Nassau County today, by using classes of drugs as markers for determining potentially violent people, and by inappropriately substituting prescription data for violent personal histories.

There is no scientific evidence to suggest that a history of legal drug use is a valid disqualifier of firearm ownership. According to the best criminological evidence, the most accurate predictor of violent behavior is a past history of violence.

The Nassau County Police Department (NCPD) acts as the county’s handgun licensing authority; licenses issued in Nassau County are valid for 5 years, after which time they must be renewed. If licensing authorities are allowed to determine that some drugs should be firearm “disqualifiers,” and others not, we will soon discover that there is no line between which drugs are dangerous, and which are not.

The new question has the potential to destroy the right of millions of Americans to use and possess firearms for self-defense. And it can damage the long standing ethical code of doctor-patient confidentiality.

Tranquilizers and Narcotics as Handgun Disqualifiers

Tranquilizers are generally intended to calm people. Narcotics are used for pain management. Although both classes of drugs can impair the user, there is no evidence to which the NCPD can point that gun-owners using such legally prescribed drugs represent a threat to society.

But the NCPD can use your physician to add you to the prohibited persons list, by calling him or her and asking for his or her opinion about your qualifications to possess a handgun. Because it is never possible to predict with certainty how any one person will react, most prescribers will be intimidated by the potential legal ramifications of the information they give to the NCPD.

And if more than one doctor prescribed any of those medications, it might only take one of them to deny you your rights.

Public policy regarding drunk-driving prohibition is not nearly so stringent, despite ample evidence that alcohol consumption prior to driving does represent a significant threat to society. According to the CDC, in 2005, alcohol-related accidental fatalities accounted for 16,885 deaths—or a whopping 41% of all accidental traffic fatalities, nationwide. This figure is far greater than the total number of all firearm-related felonious homicides (12,121) and accidental firearm-related deaths during (810) that same year.

Reliable and affordable ignition interlock devices, which prevent motor vehicle use if the driver is intoxicated, are readily available. But there is no unrelenting call for retrofitting all motor vehicles with such a device. In fact, there is no call at all.

That measure would be more practical and more Constitution-friendly than constant attempts to so strictly limit civilian firearm possession, that guns are, in fact, banned. It does not appear that the intent of the NCPD’s handgun policy is public safety. Rather, it would seem that creating confiscatory gun regulation is paramount.

Anti-Depressants as Handgun Disqualifiers

Use of anti-depressants has been linked to youngsters who have gone on high-profile, but rare, mass-shooting sprees. If these drugs can cause people to suddenly “snap,” it might seem reasonable to restrict legal possession of firearms to those taking such drugs as an effective strategy to prevent violent rampages. One point on which most researchers agree is that these incidents generally occur in a susceptible group of individuals under 25 years of age.

But because locks are easily disabled, in order to prevent any access to firearms by this class of individuals, or any other susceptible group, our society would need to tightly restrict the possession and storage of all weapons—exactly the goal of the firearm-prohibitionists.

Disarming the country in order to prevent that rare mass murder by firearm, or suicide by firearm, remains an impossible task, because even such a massive, wholesale infringement on the Second Amendment rights of Americans would not prevent access to weapons: guns will always be available.

In New York City, it is easy for anyone—store-owner, or felon fresh out of jail—to quickly and cheaply acquire his gun of choice on the flourishing black market. Anti-gun politicians like Mayor Michael Bloomberg know it. And so does the NCPD.

In all practicality, we would need to choose between the ready accessibility of guns for self-defense, or the false premise of total inaccessibility of guns that can be snatched for committing that rare mass murder.

Which would make for a safer society?

John Lott and William Landes, in their paper, “Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-To-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws,” found that even criminally irrational individuals might not act if their expected outcome—multiple mass-murder—might be averted or reduced by an armed bystander. They found that, in jurisdictions where handgun licenses are easily obtained, “the drop in murders and injuries is surprisingly large.”

Another group of anti-gun researchers, led by Grant Duwe, also investigated the issue of mass-public shootings, using different data, and applying different statistical methods. In their paper, “The Impact of Right-to Carry Concealed Firearm Laws on Mass Public Shootings,” Duwe and his co-authors found “little evidence that RTC laws increase or reduce the number of mass public shootings….”

That statement negates the Lott/Landes positive finding of reduced violence, but does not contradict it. No matter what data Duwe and his team chose to use, and no matter how they treated that data, their conclusion could not support the argument that greater safety would follow from more restrictive gun laws.

Banning Everyone

If we allow fear mongering to replace good science and sound medical care, we can make the case that most drugs Americans commonly take could be used as firearm disqualifiers. That is because virtually all drugs—prescription and over-the-counter—have been associated with psychological and neurological adverse effects.

We must also fear any gun-owner, or non-gun-owner, who is taking other drugs—drugs not intended to change one’s mental functioning, but to heal one’s body. Drugs used to treat hypertension, high cholesterol and erectile dysfunction are among those that could be used to expand the list of prohibited persons.

Aleve is a popular over-the-counter drug used to treat a variety of painful conditions. Among its potential side effects are drowsiness, problems with vision or balance, vertigo, depression, cognitive dysfunction, and convulsions.

In order to protect society from the potential of dizzy, depressed, impaired people carrying handguns, when can we expect the NCPD to add Aleve to its list of potential drug disqualifiers?

The NCPD’s use of drugs as disqualifying markers amounts to an end-run around the Supreme Court’s decision against gun bans. And if the NCPD is successful in its implementation of this new policy, we expect it will soon be seized upon and widely implemented in other jurisdictions for the purpose of expanding the list of prohibited persons.

No gun bans. Just people bans.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

T.O.M.

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Re: WARNING! In Ohio, pot possession makes firearms a felony
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2008, 01:00:53 PM »
Okay, now that I have more time to write...

The local prosecutor has anti-2A leanings.  I worked with him.  I've shot with him.  His opinion is that all handguns should be registered and a sample round stored for ballistic comparisons, in case of criminal investigations.  he believes that you should be required to pass a competency test before you can own a handgun.  (Please don't ask me to list his name, as that would end my anonymity.  PM for any further information.)

Anyways, he and several other prosecutors in other counties looked at the Weapons Under Disibility statute (Ohio Rrevised Code Section 2923.13) and saw a way to get tough on gun crimes.  The staute prohibits firearm possession by anyone who "is under indictment for or has been convicted of any offense involving teh illegal possession, use, sale, administration, disribution, or trafficking in any drug of abuse or has been adjudicated a delinquent child for the commission of an offense that, if committed by an adult, would have been (such an offense)."   The offense is a Felony of the Third Degree, punishable by up to 5 years in prison.

So, when Johnny Doe was in college, and he got popped for Possession of Marihuana, a minor misdemeanor, he paid his fines and walked away.  As college students often do, he didn't think about any long-term ramifications, so didn't bother to pursue having the record sealed and/or expunged.  And, because Johnny wasn't in law school, he didn't know there was a very specific process taht had to be followed under Ohio Revised Code Section 2923.14 to get "Relief From Disability" for firearms possession.

So, Johnny gets his degree from Ohio University, gets on with his life, and becomes interested in shooting.  For some reason, he becomes a person of interest to the Prosecuting Attorney.  Prosecutor does a background check and finds the drug prior.  Finds out that Johnny is a member of the Sportman's Club, and has someone take some pictures of Johnny shooting at the range.  Indicts Johnny for one felony count for each firearm Johnny possess that day, as depicted in the photos, including that beautiful Colt Python.  Johnny tries to argue that the law shouldn't apply, but there is no case law on this subject.  judge overrules the motion to dismiss.  johnny is found guilty, and his firearms are forfeited as "tools of the crime."  Prosecutor now has teh Python on his wall while Johnny's lawyer tries to get him probation instead of prison.

Don't think it's right, but it is what it is.  Wonder how many people are living with this very real risk hanging over their heads, without even knowing...
No, I'm not mtnbkr.  ;)

a.k.a. "our resident Legal Smeagol."...thanks BryanP
"Anybody can give legal advice - but only licensed attorneys can sell it."...vaskidmark

gunband

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Re: WARNING! In Ohio, pot possession makes firearms a felony
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2009, 08:25:37 PM »
Had to join this forum after reading OP in this thread. Fits my scenario to a tee. Chris's signature line is appropriate to my situation. Almost a month ago I completed my CCW with perfect scores on written and range. About a week ago I went to the Sheriff with Application, picture, money, etc. in hand and said "I got a question about this question". 25 years ago in another state where possession less than 1 oz. was DECRIMINALIZED and a $50.00 ticket (which I believe was) the same ticket issued for normal traffic (vehicle) tickets. He said if I say "yes" he has to turn me down and if I say "no" and it comes back =4th degree felony. My CCW instructor (former cop/police firearms instructor AND operates and/or owns a gunstore) says I can buy a gun as long as I pass the FFL check. Reading the law http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.13 , I do not believe him. I am currently working on sealing/expunging/seeking relief but would rather see a FAIR law. (I have seen some states say "within the last 10 years".) If anyone on this board is an attorney and/or knows someone high up who lobbies for laws I would appreciate any guidance and/or help on this. The sheriff agreed with me somewhat and said something like "yeah, those guys sit up there doing their blow and writing these laws..."). And of course, Ohio says "you can't have a gun if you've ever done a toke of leaf unless you bribe us with lot's of money and then maybe". We really need a legal system that's about justice and not about lining pockets but then if we had that we'd really be free wouldn't we?

Bigjake

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Re: WARNING! In Ohio, pot possession makes firearms a felony
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2009, 10:03:28 PM »
Um.... If a felon isn't rehabilitated enough to own weapons and function in society, WHY THE HELL DID WE LET THEM OUTA JAIL??

:banghead:

Standing Wolf

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Re: WARNING! In Ohio, pot possession makes firearms a felony
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2009, 10:16:02 PM »
Quote
“Reasonable” is a very big word, and it opens the way to the eradication of our rights. If firearms can no longer be banned, then expanding the list of prohibited persons is the next tactic for firearm-hostile politicians to explore. That subjective factor of “reasonable” regulation could cast an extremely wide net.

One toxic tactic of many we'll see used and expanded in the days to come.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

Seenterman

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Re: WARNING! In Ohio, pot possession makes firearms a felony
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2009, 12:02:33 PM »
Im Confused.

All of us should know already pot possesion + firearm = felon

But If you get arrested for misdimenor pot possesion in college and then five years later you are no longer a smoker deciede to buy a gun.Can you can get arrested for a felon because of this 5 year old pot possesion charge ?

I dont get how that works, double jepardary?

T.O.M.

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Re: WARNING! In Ohio, pot possession makes firearms a felony
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2009, 12:43:44 PM »
I speak only of Ohio, as I work there.  In Ohio, if you get convicted of any crime involving the possession or use fo a drug of abuse (including marihuana), you are "under disability" with respect to firearms possession.  So, under your hypothetical, if busted in college for possession of pot, five years later you cannot legally possess a firearm as the law exists today.  the only way you can legally possess a firearm is to go through the process of having the disability relieved.

gunband, I feel for you.

And, Bigjake, I can do you one better.  Under Ohio law, a minor misdemeanor offense is no longer considered to be a "crime."  You cannot be incarcerated for a minor misdemeanor offense.  yet, if that minor misdemeanor is a drug offense (like Possession of marihuana in an amount of less than 100 grams), you are under disability for firearms possession.
No, I'm not mtnbkr.  ;)

a.k.a. "our resident Legal Smeagol."...thanks BryanP
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gunband

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Re: WARNING! In Ohio, pot possession makes firearms a felony
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2009, 07:33:02 PM »
Chris,
 Thanks for feeling my pain   :O
First I should say it's not that I "do not believe" my instructor. It's that I believe he is mistaken on the law. It's
probably something that most cops are unaware of but the prosecutor would use against you if you were already in
trouble for misuse with a firearm. The sheriff didn't even bat an eye when open carry was discussed so he was
likely unaware also.


digitalandanalog

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Re: WARNING! In Ohio, pot possession makes firearms a felony
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2009, 11:22:08 PM »
Quote
All of us should know already pot possesion + firearm = felon

WRONG...and I have the CCW to prove it.

T.O.M.

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Re: WARNING! In Ohio, pot possession makes firearms a felony
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2009, 03:55:26 PM »
WRONG...and I have the CCW to prove it.

Well, let's just hope for your sake that you don't live in my county, that you never have cause to have your possession of a firearm questioned by the county prosecutor, and/or that you had your prior expunged and your disability legally relieved.
No, I'm not mtnbkr.  ;)

a.k.a. "our resident Legal Smeagol."...thanks BryanP
"Anybody can give legal advice - but only licensed attorneys can sell it."...vaskidmark

freedom lover

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Re: WARNING! In Ohio, pot possession makes firearms a felony
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2009, 06:13:37 PM »
The probable migration of these laws is another reason not to smoke weed.

One reason I'm against firearms restriction is because they'll eventually get to me.

T.O.M.

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Re: WARNING! In Ohio, pot possession makes firearms a felony
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2009, 12:46:20 PM »
I've heard rumor (completely unconfirmed) that one county in Ohio...Greene County...the sheriff is requiring a clean drug screen before processing a CCW application.  The law doesn't include this, but can't you just see it coming?
No, I'm not mtnbkr.  ;)

a.k.a. "our resident Legal Smeagol."...thanks BryanP
"Anybody can give legal advice - but only licensed attorneys can sell it."...vaskidmark