War on Sex

[richyoung]

Gee Rich... you DO remember who Charley was claiming to be when those killings happened, right?

Gee, Hunter, you DO know that Charley was imitating CROWLEY when he claimed to be J.C., right?  Crowley not only claimed to be Jesus on various occasions, but one of his most famous photographs was in a cruxifiction pose.

BS. I've studied both ceremonial magic and Wicca (I AM Wiccan), and there're VERY few similarities...

That odd...evne scholars that take the position that Crowley had less influence on Wicca conceed that Ye Bok of Ye Art Magiacl was based in part on Crowley's The Equinox, Volume III Number 1 (The Blue Equinox), and Magick in Theory and Practice.

[Strings]

>That odd...evne scholars that take the position that Crowley had less influence on Wicca conceed that Ye Bok of Ye Art Magiacl was based in part on Crowley's The Equinox, Volume III Number 1 (The Blue Equinox), and Magick in Theory and Practice.<

Odd... I've never heard of that book anywhere. But it's YOUR proof that Crowley was a major influence on Wicca?

 BTW: followers or Crowley's religion are called "Thelemic". Want some unbiased info? There's even some interesting little historical tidbits in AC's life...

[Perd Hapley]

So, witches are in a war against sex?  I'm confused.

[richyoung]

>That odd...evne scholars that take the position that Crowley had less influence on Wicca conceed that Ye Bok of Ye Art Magiaclwas based in part on Crowley's The Equinox, Volume III Number 1 (The Blue Equinox), and Magick in Theory and Practice.<

Odd... I've never heard of that book anywhere. But it's YOUR proof that Crowley was a major influence on Wicca?

"The earliest copy of the Gardnerian rituals extant, from before Valientes reworking of them, are in a hand-written/caligraphed grimoire called Ye Bok of ye Art Magical (the BAM for short) which is in Gardners own handwriting."

"Ever since the 1960s, there has been a rumour circulating that Aleister Crowley wrote the Wiccan rituals for Gerald Gardner.[1] ....Certainly there are grounds that would seem to support this claim: anyone familiar with both the published works of Crowley and with Gardnerian Wiccan rituals will notice quite a bit of Crowleys poetry in the rituals, even after Doreen Valiente, by her own admission,[3] rewrote the rituals to remove or disguise much of the Crowley material. "


...the above from a web page by a Roger Dearnaley, who seeks to minimize the percieved influence of Crowley on Wiccan ritual, and claims to be a "...second degree Gardnerian".  I felt this might have a little more credibility with you than a Christian source.

[Strings]

Rich... most websites of any kind have very little credibility with me in regards to Wicca...

 I'm friends with some VERY serious scholars (Wiccan, Thelemic, Christian), and have NEVER heard this mentioned ANYWHERE else. But I'll check up on it (just to remain objective)...

[Strings]

ok... here's what I was able to find (and it's based on the same site you quote):

"...that there are several cases of possible influence from Crowley on the book, including actual quotes on magical theory from Crowley's own published works; words or symbols associated with Crowley; and parts of some rituals. However, it is equally clear that Crowley would not have written it; for one thing, "Ye Bok" doesn't spell magic with a "k." As Dearnaley says, "If Crowley himself had written it, he would surely have titled it something like The Art of Magick, vel Liber XL (or De Arte Magica), not Ye Bok of ye Art Magical."

I'm pretty sure there's actually no serious doubts that Gardner wrote this book, and I'm also pretty sure that the original manuscript is currently at the Wiccan Church of Canada. There are some relevant historical facts: Gardner is known to have been familiar with Crowley's writing as well as meeting Crowley himself, though after, not before, he began investigating the occult. "

There are also worlds of difference between how most Wiccans today practice, and how Garndner parcticed (much like the differences between early Christians and modern Lutherians).

 Now I think we've taken this thread far enough off topic...

[bermbuster]

I used to be in a civic organization with Rep Davenport's wife but have met him only a few times.  I would place a fairly heavy bet that if he thought there were Wiccans in his district or, for that matter, anywhere in the state he would sponsor a bill outlawing the practice, especially if he thought they were employing the use of mechanical devices.