Author Topic: Was HE Right?  (Read 1328 times)

Werewolf

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Was HE Right?
« on: February 01, 2007, 06:41:38 AM »
Quote
"The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, and love of soft living and the get-rich-quick theory of life." T. Roosevelt

Was Teddy Roosevelt right in his prediction? Is what he said happening to America right now? Will the end result be the destruction of America?
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Manedwolf

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Re: Was HE Right?
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2007, 06:57:07 AM »
In ways, yes. People are horribly complacent. As long as they have their credit cards, the newest model of SUV and a new plasma TV, air conditioning and all, all they worry about is when soccer practice for their kids is, and the social and celebrity-gossip scene. Tens of millions, if not more, exactly fit that model.

They only "wake up" when something truly bad happens, such as a Katrina, when the police can't come and the government can't help. But by then, it's too late. They lack the mindset and supplies, even the psyche to band together in self-sufficient groups of neighbors as people once did.

If there's ever a nationwide or even larger-scale disaster, where people would have once clustered in self-sufficient groups with the wherewithal to improvise and be reasonably comfortable, we'll instead have people who are utterly helpless when their power is out and the plasma TV doesn't work, who can't function without air conditioning, who won't be able to move if their ironically delicate but topheavy SUV can't drive down a clear road, and who will, unfortunately, by and large, fail to survive.


As for political dangers, they ignore those as well, and are more than willing to give up freedom for a false sense of security. That, perhaps, is the most frightening of all, because in doing so, they enable the government to REMOVE the tools of self-sufficiency and survival (such as firearms) from those who are still of the stronger, more self-reliant mindset. By their complacency, they enable the forced helplessness of those who were not complacent.





Thor

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Re: Was HE Right?
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2007, 07:06:24 AM »
I hope I'm not around when Yellowstone decides to blow. Americans will find out just what tragedy is.

I also think that Teddy Roosevelt was right. We've become far too complacent, relying on government entities to control our lives. As I see it, Americans, on the whole, are a bunch of self-interested, self-serving, what's in it for me type of people any more.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Was HE Right?
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2007, 07:07:03 AM »
We are soft and complacent. Just compare a few generations of Americans before the present.

I'm not saying we all need to go full-tilt-boogie survivalist or become buddy-buddy with James Wesley,[sic] Rawles, but look at how people deal with bad snowstorms or power outages compared to even 50 years ago. 

I bought the seeds for this summer's vegetable garden last week, and my two stepsons thought I was ape-friggin' nuts!  "You go to the grocery store to get veggies!"  They also got peeved at me the other day for test-running my Generac generator for a few minutes, it was making too much noise for them to hear their World of Warcraft game. 

Oy, veh!  undecided
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Thor

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Re: Was HE Right?
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2007, 07:16:17 AM »
Gewehr, what's sad is that many people don't even have the skill to hunt any more. Sure, we can go to the grocery store to buy our food right now, but even the mere possession of basic survival skills are important to me. I'm making sure my daughter can fire a gun, etc.
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Art Eatman

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Re: Was HE Right?
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2007, 07:19:58 AM »
I note that little heed is given to the fact that it's been 5+ years and no more terror attacks within the US.  (That strikes me as a key word, "within".)  That doesn't stop folks from bitching about what's being done to keep that from happening.

We lose a few cross-Mississippi River bridges, and a couple of oil refineries, folks might get a different view of reality...

Art
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The Rabbi

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Re: Was HE Right?
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2007, 07:20:33 AM »
Nonsense.
Every generation rises to the challenges it is given.  People in the 1920s were probably saying the same things.  People in the "gay '90s" (that's 1890, not 1990) probably said the same thing.
Look at how people responded to 9/11, dropping everything and just going to NYC to help out.
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Art Eatman

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Re: Was HE Right?
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2007, 07:31:38 AM »
Rabbi, it seems to me that there's a sort of shift:  Nowadays, more Chamberlains than Churchills.  I guess what strikes me is the degree of importance people have attached to consumerism, lifestyles and instant gratification.  Sure, folks have  always like shiny goodies, but they didn't used to seem THAT important.

Sure, there will always be a lot of the sort of folks you refer to, the 9/11 responders.  It just seems to me there aren't as many of them, overall...

Art
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Manedwolf

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Re: Was HE Right?
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2007, 07:35:17 AM »
I note that little heed is given to the fact that it's been 5+ years and no more terror attacks within the US.  (That strikes me as a key word, "within".)  That doesn't stop folks from bitching about what's being done to keep that from happening.

We lose a few cross-Mississippi River bridges, and a couple of oil refineries, folks might get a different view of reality...

Art

It took them well over a decade to plan 9/11. The most important thing to realize is that the culture we're facing is one that thinks in long-term, where feuds centuries old might as well be two weeks ago. They take their time. We can never forget that, or think that just because there's been no attacks since 9/11 in the US that there won't be. They bide their time and plan, and we do need to secure the ports and borders...and not be complacent.

Think of a snake. It doesn't kill very often, but when it does, it's very methodical in how it approaches its prey.


Twycross

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Re: Was HE Right?
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2007, 07:41:10 AM »
I believe in the fundamental laziness of humanity. People in general will only do what must be done. There are of course exceptions all over the place, but as a general rule people must be pushed along. The modern generation hasn't had to adapt to a harsh environment, and so when things like Katrina hit, they are caught off-guard.

When a prolonged ordeal really hits, people can pull together to adapt and meet the challenge, as The Rabbi said. Take WWII for example. But without some sort of regular hardship, society degenerates to the lowest level of preparedness possible until it is once again forced into action.

As long as we retain a fairly cohesive society, I don't think America is going away anytime soon.

The Rabbi

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Re: Was HE Right?
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2007, 07:49:19 AM »
Rabbi, it seems to me that there's a sort of shift:  Nowadays, more Chamberlains than Churchills.  I guess what strikes me is the degree of importance people have attached to consumerism, lifestyles and instant gratification.  Sure, folks have  always like shiny goodies, but they didn't used to seem THAT important.

Sure, there will always be a lot of the sort of folks you refer to, the 9/11 responders.  It just seems to me there aren't as many of them, overall...

Art

Churchill was voted out of office in 1946 or whenever it was.  Britons had enough of "blood sweat and tears" I guess by that point.
Every generation bemoans how much better people were in preceding generations.
I will concede there is a narcissicism in society that has been absent until now.  The huge upsurge in "gay culture" is but one indicator.
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CAnnoneer

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Re: Was HE Right?
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2007, 01:43:06 PM »
Quote from: Art Eatman
Rabbi, it seems to me that there's a sort of shift:  Nowadays, more Chamberlains than Churchills. 

I'd say that societies are never monochromatic. There always are appeasers and hardliners. The former dominate in peacetime and the latter in wartime.

If you read Churchill's memoirs (see "The Gathering Storm"), you will see that he spent many years in the political wilderness, trying to convince others that Hitler is a problem and that Britain should prepare for war. Nobody listened or wanted to listen and Chamberlains flourished as a result - they were offering the attractive illusion of easy solutions. Only after Hitler breached the Munich agreement did it become abundantly clear that peaceful solutions would not work. That realization discredited the appeasers to the point that they became politically irrelevant and ideologically unsustainable.

Our own position is similar to Britain's pre-Munich. There are still many appeasers that believe in "live and let live" and that terrorists can be reasoned with, because they are "fundamentally good but misguided and rightfully enraged" people. Hitler was also "a reasonable fellow with legitimate grievances". We have our Churchills that say this is all boloney, but they are conveniently being ignored. So, if Iraq fails, the Dems will pull out the troops and declare "peace in our times". By the way, the Israeli leftists already did exactly that after the 2006 elections.

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Re: Was HE Right?
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2007, 01:46:37 PM »
Ah, but if it were so simple to think disaster or shtf is the "destruction" of America.  Complacency and laziness is leading to the destruction of America, one "entitlement" at a time.  Socialism is taking America slowly but surely.  The founding fathers wouldn't recognize this country anymore....
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