Post by: telewinz on September 25, 2005, 09:34:42 AM
Post by: atek3 on September 25, 2005, 10:10:58 AM
atek3
Post by: The Rabbi on September 25, 2005, 10:18:53 AM
Post by: telewinz on September 25, 2005, 10:43:17 AM
Post by: jefnvk on September 25, 2005, 11:01:30 AM
Quote
I don't know what the requirements are to be a moderator on the Firing Line
I think you will find that at least a few mods are shared between THR & TFL. It would be my guess that they will be along in the not too far future, and can explain how they got the job.And FWIW, it is my understanding that Rich owns the site.
Maybe if you could post a link to the closed thread, we could judge. But, if it is anything like most of the threads, typical Bush-bashing, it probably had some merit to be closed.
Post by: Guest on September 25, 2005, 12:12:38 PM
For the sake of new folks ...
Yes Rich owns the TFL and is Publisher of SWAT.
When Rich closed TFL for a bit, to focus his effort and attention so he , Denny, and others could get SWAT up and running, Rich Challenged TFL members to go forth and do better than the bar raised by TFL for all Forums that Promoted Responsible Firearm Ownership.
Many sites were started, one of which is THR, Oleg, stepped up to the challenge, Derek stepped up and did the server, many folks from TFL became Staff and moderators, many still perform duties not only on THR, TFL , but other Forums as well.
This site, APS, was born from the Roundtable Forum at THR. Concerns of not promoting the Goals of THR, resulted in Oleg, and others to pay out of their pocket , to provide a place for folks whom are like minded to discuss those subjects not condusive to the Goals of THR.
Rules of Conduct for THR came from TFL, many other sites also use TFL as an example. Clearly stated, respective forums are run by Rich/ Oleg, if you want to be a guest, abide by the guest rules. IF not, you are welcome to establish your own site.
Forum Etiquettes- if you will, suggest one is to PM/ Email The Staff member if one has a question about any actions. It is also not proper form to discuss other sites way of doing things.
As Prefaced, none of my business, just information to those new to forums is all.
Yes we have Moderators here on APS that are in fact Staff/ Mods on THR, TFL or both. Elsewhere as well.
Regards,
Steve
Post by: Justin on September 25, 2005, 01:02:17 PM
Telewinz, I'm a mod at THR which, as stated before, has some crossover among the moderator staff with TFL.
While I am admittedly not plugged into the mod culture of TFL, I have never heard anything even remotely close to what you claim said by any of the mods. So far as I know, being a mod at TFL is a volunteer job, just like at THR.
On a personal note, I have spoken and corresponded with Rich Lucibella a handful of times, and have never found him to be anything less than professional and upstanding.
Post by: grampster on September 25, 2005, 01:15:28 PM
I have no problem with mods intervening. That's what they are there for. I mean no disrespect for the passion of the previous posters.
Post by: Guest on September 25, 2005, 01:20:56 PM
Post by: telewinz on September 25, 2005, 01:23:55 PM
Post by: Guest on September 25, 2005, 01:40:05 PM
Post by: Guest on September 25, 2005, 01:40:14 PM
Quote
I don't know what the requirements are to be a moderator on the Firing Line, I've read that you just donate enough money and the power is yours but I could be wrong.
About 30 seconds of investigation would have shown you that about half of the mods over there are at least posting members of THR and most of the other half have been posting on TFL for *years*, much longer that Rich has owned SWAT.I understand why you didnt bother to verify anything you said, afterall that would have taken valuable seconds away from your pointless ranting.
Post by: Guest on September 25, 2005, 01:43:52 PM
Post by: Guest on September 25, 2005, 01:51:29 PM
Word is the Mod in the Events Forum is "allright".
Take the venting out in the form of a donation so a kid could go shooting...
[edit- semicolon captial P... semicolon captial P...semi]
Post by: Guest on September 25, 2005, 02:46:00 PM
Post by: K Frame on September 25, 2005, 02:47:46 PM
Did Rich pull a post of yours?
The big question YOU have to answer is what was in it?
I see a lot of other posts you've made on the subject of the president that are still there, so until you show cause otherwise, I'm dubious about your claims.
Post by: Zundfolge on September 25, 2005, 03:05:00 PM
Quote
I feel this country is worse off with him at the helm
Worse off then with Gore or Kerry?I'm not a big fan of W but when you compare him to the options, I'm glad we have him instead of Algore or Fuckface.
As for TFL, its Rich's site ... he makes the rules. Even though I'm not a big fan of W I'm tired of the Bush bashing from the LP types and other non leftists... all that does is empower the democrats and other lefties.
Post by: telewinz on September 25, 2005, 03:35:05 PM
"I see a lot of other posts you've made on the subject of the president that are still there, so until you show cause otherwise, I'm dubious about your claims."
Dubious? Whining (I've NEVER complained to a mod)? Spare me your emotional attack. If you can't convince them Censure them. I no longer have the "privilege" to post on TFL or even email. It strikes me as a very low blow since we seldom agree on political points or the wisdom or outcome of the Iraq War (some might call my views "unpopular" and "unpleasant" to contemplate or "flaming"). In short I believe Bush is an incompetent leader whom the dems could best portray as Elmer Fudd (with hair) in a political cartoon/ad. My Last word, censorship works...in the short run.
What was it I remember TFL posters saying about CNN? Something like the Clinton News Network, guess it's different when it's TFL and a Republican President. sm: thanks for the web site there is a shortcut on my desktop.
Post by: Ron on September 25, 2005, 03:37:31 PM
Even he as has taken to saying (with tongue in cheek) it's all Bushs fault.
Even the non political types mock the anti Bush fervor some demonstrate.
Post by: Gewehr98 on September 25, 2005, 03:39:43 PM
Quote
I no longer have the "privilege" to post on TFL or even email.
That's why he's pissed off and bad-mouthing a sister forum. 
Post by: telewinz on September 25, 2005, 03:49:12 PM
Well, duh.
And not a sister forum, just the heavy handedness and bias of the owner
telewinz, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.
Post by: jefnvk on September 25, 2005, 03:57:38 PM
Quote
I'm glad we have him instead of Algore or Fuckface.
Well, that's the way to keep it on the high road 
Post by: tyme on September 25, 2005, 04:18:25 PM
Quote
I don't know what the requirements are to be a moderator on the Firing Line, I've read that you just donate enough money and the power is yours but I could be wrong.
Identify your source. This is some of the more amusing nonsense I've heard. It does nothing but prove that you don't know Rich and that you're a gossip queen.
Post by: telewinz on September 25, 2005, 04:26:43 PM
Yes, I don't know Rich and never said I did. Gossip Queen...now that's a convincing argument.
Post by: tyme on September 25, 2005, 04:32:18 PM
Quote
I've read that you just donate enough money and the power is yours but I could be wrong.
That's called gossip, and people who spread gossip without corroboration are called gossip queens.I can pretty much guarantee that you were banned because you started a thread by posting an inappropriate image. I very much doubt it had anything to do with your opinion about Bush.
Post by: Larry Ashcraft on September 25, 2005, 05:00:52 PM
Quote from: Justin
On a personal note, I have spoken and corresponded with Rich Lucibella a handful of times, and have never found him to be anything less than professional and upstanding.
Same here.And what Steve said, none of my business. BUT, I personally know at least a couple of mods on both sites. Had them in my home, spoke to them on the phone or both. What you said about TFL's mods is just plain wrong. IF you were banned, I would say it was your own fault. Their living rooms, as they say.
I am surprised Oleg hasn't deleted this thread already.
Post by: Guest on September 25, 2005, 05:01:47 PM
Quote
Ha! She didn't vote for Bush, either!
Neither did I Ya'll want something to cuss, cuss my homework assisgnment. I am "trying" to grasp the concepts of learning Visual Basics thru Online classes only.
Gotta use JavaScript, pseudocode and all that jazz. Suppose to use nouns for inputs and adjectives for outputs. Then they "say" I am supposed to use the verbs and adverbs for the actions required.
I'm a Southern boy, I don't think we have nouns,adjectives, verbs and adverbs down here. I gots the screen to display "Ya'll come back ya here".
Now getting defining diagram, solution diagram, desk checking and done forgot what else ...
All I wants to do is " read from the screen the length and width of a rectangular farm plot and the length and width of the rectangular barn that has been built on the plot. The alogrithm should then compute and display the mowing time to cut the grass around the barn at the rate of two square miles per minute".
Okay I do that...or I did something.
Dunno what happened, screen shows...somehow a bull done come onto my plot, and I get the famer bailing off the John Deere running for cover...last seen the John Deere was heading toward the pond, bull head down and gaining round.
I cannot wait until I try to input "saucer and blowed coffee" and the ashtray is supposed to "tump" over...
Shotguns are so much easier to "input" and get desired "outputs".
;P
btw how is my thread drift to get this topic forgotten?
Post by: Larry Ashcraft on September 25, 2005, 05:13:23 PM
Quote from: sm
"Ya'll come back ya here".
Steve,it's "hear".
And I agree, let's hijack this here (hear) thread.
Post by: Guest on September 25, 2005, 05:27:53 PM
Well I just did not edit fast enough now did I?
You try typing on Notepad, with "<" , " >" "if", "dowhile" , "endif" and other fun stuff, tabbing entries and such. Makes my head hurt. I'd...I'd almost rather do the Access database stuff. Just the Visual Basic is due first...
And folks new to English just thing pare, pair , pear, here, hear....are confusing...
Any Bait shops in CO need a fella to run 'em?
Just my luck I'd get caught in a wooden cane pole vs graphite bream rod debate...
Post by: Larry Ashcraft on September 25, 2005, 05:49:18 PM
Hey, we had dinner with Smoke Rizen and his wife tonight (last of the green beans with a ham hock, and some of the best tomatoes ever) and we were talking about Tulsa.
You will be there, right?
Post by: jefnvk on September 25, 2005, 06:00:16 PM
Quote
Ya'll want something to cuss, cuss my homework assisgnment. I am "trying" to grasp the concepts of learning Visual Basics thru Online classes only.
Child's play. I'd take online courses over the Asian grad student teacher who can't understand English and whose class is at 8 am and who is trying to teach us asembly anydayQuote
" read from the screen the length and width of a rectangular farm plot and the length and width of the rectangular barn that has been built on the plot. The alogrithm should then compute and display the mowing time to cut the grass around the barn at the rate of two square miles per minute"
Four input boxes, one for each dimension. Take the area of the plot, subtract the area of the barn, and then divide by the time to mow a certain amout of grass, which appears to be 2 sq mi/ minuet (damn fast lawnmower, if I may say so)
Post by: Guest on September 25, 2005, 06:11:24 PM
I did tell one instructor I would need to attend some "licensure renewals" come spring of '06. It is not good for me to project, planning is okay. I do have to renew my Res CCW, my Non-Res FL is due the following year...
Tulsa falls under "licensure" in case you are wondering...
Long term: I am just trying to make it to Wednesday of this coming week. Short terrm : get this blasted assignment to work tonight so I can email it in. Then one after that for Monday evening, and Chapter 5 test on Tues, lab skills following the test. Been awhile since I actually played with Single Mode Fiber Optic , and made patch cables.
I think next time I attend Tulsa - I need to get a room. I started that last trip in the early am, drove to Tulsa,[ ~ 4 hrs] attended all day, and drove back. [~ 4 hrs again].
I must be getting old....
Post by: grampster on September 25, 2005, 06:17:47 PM
Post by: Guest on September 25, 2005, 06:26:14 PM
Well...
Seems the thing works in IE.
Getting it to work in Firefox (which I seem to be the only student using Firefox) - got a glitch in the get-along.
One student ran accross a problem using his Mac. ( only student using a Mac). His will work on his GFs PC, not on the Mac. Seems Safari is more mean to him that Firefox is to me.
Is it too late to go back to Big Indian notebooks and Fat Pencils?
Sigh...
Some stuff I see real easy, I usually see the hard stuff and new concepts. Some stuff, I admit, I have to work some stuff some find easy.
I decided to try another problem.
Plan G - check all my variable and make sure all are the same.
Err...I bet the "if" and "else" statements are supposed to be lowercase aren't they? cASe SeNsiTive - huh? I read that part in the hardcopy text stuff - then how come stupid me used all Caps...oh...I was looking at a online handout that was done that way.
< slaps forehead>
I'll be hiding in Notepad if anyone needs me...
Post by: Guest on September 25, 2005, 06:46:21 PM
yeah, yeah , yeah I know.
I am logged into 3 classes, ( amongst other places) trying to remember my username and passwords, how each class forum is supposed to work...some want "{quote}" and some want "{QUOTE}" ( yeah I know the "{}" are supposed to be "[]" ) , the smilies are all different- some I have to use email - which is yet another usename (s) / password(s) , some I have to use the forum PM dealie, some stuff has to be sent in via WebCt, some thru Moodle...I have 8 browers open...I am tired, ticked off because I cannot see the obvious, my coffee tastes awful, I ran out of the new Oreo cookies, ( shortbread kinda with the chocolate icing in the middle) and my Zippo needs a new wick, flint, and fluid refill.
Not complaining - really I am not. I signed up for all this knowing what all was required. I am actually enoying learning all this stuff.
There is always someone worse off and in worse shape than I am. Gratitude if you will.
I gots a new dealie of classic Oreos, time for a cookie break I say!
First thing I learned about 'Puters...I control the sucker. 'Puter does not control me. I can turn it off, disconnect from Internet, and for me...I can close the laptop and stick it in a desk all alone in the dark it can sit.
Post by: grampster on September 25, 2005, 06:53:30 PM
PS If you'll note above, my little jab at you has an edit. It's because I did a colon and small p---heh heh heh.
Illigitimi non carborundum est, my friend.
Post by: Zundfolge on September 25, 2005, 06:55:26 PM
Quote from: jefnvk
Quote
I'm glad we have him instead of Algore or Fuckface.
Well, that's the way to keep it on the high road 2. My use of the terms Algore and Fuckface was reference to the recently closed Kim du Toit blog ... I guess I figured most of the folks here would get the reference.
Post by: jefnvk on September 25, 2005, 07:52:54 PM
Post by: K Frame on September 25, 2005, 08:03:33 PM
You know, that might be the source of your problem.
Posting gossip without attribution.
I'm fortunate enough to personally know a couple of the moderators on TFL, and call one friend. To a man they say that Rich has NEVER accepted money from them. I'll believe them before I believe anyone else, so I can only say that I find your quasi-assertion/allegation to be totally without merit.
As I also noted, your claim of censorship is rather weak given that there are quite a few of your posts still on TFL.
"Spare me your emotional attack."
Oh please. Pot, kettle, black? Ring any bells?
No?
"It's not the fact that you are small of statue Rich, it's your small mind that galls!"
That's emotional, boyo, and it's not the only emotional pander to which you've resorted.
Now, I've e-mailed you a little note that you might find to be of great interest given one of your other assertions.
Check your e-mail. ALL of your e-mail addresses.
Post by: telewinz on September 26, 2005, 12:12:09 AM
A tatoo of Elmer Fudd on a person's hairy butt? Yep, banning sure is appropriate. My last word.
NO email or private message from Rich.
Post by: Art Eatman on September 26, 2005, 03:01:25 AM
Consider the ancient saying, "It is not your duty to understand me. It is my duty to make myself understood." That's a two-way street. Rich had no obligation to understand you. It is your obligation to be intelligible to him.
I've been moderating for some six years, now. That's a helluva lot of posts to have read, at both TFL and THR. I've seen vast numbers of arguments and even flame wars over this very problem of understanding or misunderstanding what somebody really meant in a post.
Shifting emphasis: I used to get a table at a gunshow on a fairly regularly basis, back in the 1970s/1980s. Among dealers, there was regular laughter at these creatures we called "Camo Queens" or "Gunshow Commandos". You've seen them: Puffy, overweight creatures, dressed in pseudo-military fashion and carrying some para-military rifle around the show and "looking bad"...
So I get on the Internet and discover Keyboard Commandos, all macho in typewritten postings. They alternate between bragging about how "bad" they are and spouting put-downs of anybody who seems to know more about reality than they do.
Lots of amusement in this old world...
, Art
Post by: The Rabbi on September 26, 2005, 04:25:43 AM
Quote from: Blackburn
He's obviously a talented businessman, but Rich can't lose an argument. He also will go out of his way to perceive you as taking some bizarre side in an issue, even if you're doing your best to agree with him. I've experienced it. Remember when I posted asking if anyone here knew what it's like to try to debate a woman?
I do my best to ignore him and that seems to work out OK. Debate is fruitless.
Post by: K Frame on September 26, 2005, 04:44:47 AM
Well then maybe you want to get in touch with him. Rich@swatmag.com, I believe.
Tell me, did you get an e-mail from me? I sent it to your AOL address, i.e., your address of record at TFL, I believe.
"but Rich can't lose an argument."
You know, Rich and I have had several very nasty, and very public, disagreements on TFL over the years, and I'm still posting there. I've also won arguments/discussions/disagreements with him, and I've also lost arguments/discussions/disagreements with him. If you're willing to debate honestly, make your case succinctly, and can provide backup for any claims you make or the rational for your opinions, you'll do just fine there, or at any posting board, for that matter.
Debate is only fruitless if you have no solid ground on which to stand.
Post by: Justin on September 26, 2005, 06:33:34 AM
And your response is to go to a different forum, carp about the fact you were banned, and then deliberately spread misinformation and rumors about TFL's staff. On top of that, you don't even post a link to the thread that you got banned for, which tells me that you probably know that the content was inapropriate for TFL.
Methinks that you and TFL weren't a good fit for each other, and perhaps you should just go find another forum.
Post by: USP45usp on September 26, 2005, 09:11:06 AM
.I thought he (Rich) was getting "softer" in his old age. He seemed alot tougher when TFL first started and then went off-line for awhile.
I had a big arguement with him right before the board went down. He didn't ban me and welcomed me back with open arms when the board came back up.
Same as here, Oleg has banned me from THR (my fault, I was being a butt) but welcomed me here at APS with open arms.
As for anti-Bush comments, posts, I see them all the time over there.
All Rich wants is for everyone to back up their posts with facts if something that is said needs to be shown as true, not internet gossip.
He also wants you to respect the forum rules (you know, those things that will get you banned in no time flat, I know
) and the members.I would bet that you were emailed by one of the Staff before you were banned (unless it was really grievous) but just kept on going with what you were doing.
Wayne
Post by: telewinz on September 26, 2005, 12:31:42 PM
Yes I did and I responded. It must be a judgment thing...a tatoo of Elmer Fudd on a hairy butt!?
Post by: Guest on September 26, 2005, 02:44:51 PM
We'll have to see the picture.
Post by: The Rabbi on September 26, 2005, 03:11:41 PM
Quote from: Blackburn
Quote from: Mike Irwin
"NO e-mail from Rich..."
Debate is only fruitless if you have no solid ground on which to stand.
It's fruitless when you're saying one thing and someone else insists you are saying another, you explain what you are actually saying very clearly, they follow the topic drift, and then suddenly take what you're talking about now and twist it back to what was being talked about at the beginning and tell you that you're full of hyperbole.Debate is only fruitless if you have no solid ground on which to stand.
Post by: K Frame on September 26, 2005, 03:15:41 PM
Not sure what your problem might be, but I know what the problem isn't.
Post by: The Rabbi on September 26, 2005, 03:31:57 PM
Quote from: Mike Irwin
Funny, Blackburn, I've never had that problem with Mr. Lucibella, and as I note, I've gone hammer and tong with him on numerous occasions.
Not sure what your problem might be, but I know what the problem isn't.
What isnt the problem, Mike?
Not sure what your problem might be, but I know what the problem isn't.
Post by: K Frame on September 26, 2005, 03:49:05 PM
One only needs to go back through the TFL archives to see where Rich and I have mixed it up in the past.
I'm still there, and he and I are still mixing it up occasionally, and I have no problems making myself understood to him.
Post by: Justin on September 26, 2005, 06:45:14 PM
Post by: telewinz on September 27, 2005, 12:15:20 AM
http://www.strangepersons.com/images/content/15967.JPG
I suspect Mike that my position on Bush and the Iraq War is the issue. My posts (on TFL and THR) on the folly of the Iraq War are loaded with quotes from knowledgeable generals to back-up my views. Going clear back to the "discussions" on WACO my posts quite often cited official investigations and articles...more than many had done (cited movies no less!). I enjoy an intelligent debate...some can't tolerate a dissenting view even if it was written by Walter Cronkite and I've been attacked much more than I have attacked, yet I NEVER went whining to a moderator. Preaching to the choir isn't very taxing is it? But it does give some a cheap feeling of accomplishment.
Post by: The Rabbi on September 27, 2005, 04:47:39 AM
Quote from: Justin
Rabbi, man, stop fighting the ventilator and just go with the flow.
Is there an ignore feature here?
Post by: K Frame on September 27, 2005, 05:37:58 AM
There are others who aren't happy with the war or the President who are still posting.
As I noted, I suggest you get in touch with Rich to find out just why you were booted. I noted the primary reason in my e-mail to you.
Post by: K Frame on September 27, 2005, 05:39:23 AM
Trust me.
I'd survive.
Post by: Art Eatman on September 27, 2005, 09:31:42 AM
Re-hash of the Same Old Stuff is also tiresome.
Last: I like to believe that I'm at least a reasonable judge of human motivations. Some of the allegations of the "why" of decisions on the part of members of the present administration all too often appear to have come from between hip pockets. Too much tinfoil hattery, there. "Bush wants to enslave us all!" belongs at DU.
, Art
Post by: griz on September 27, 2005, 10:08:15 AM
Post by: telewinz on September 27, 2005, 12:18:23 PM
Simple, my entire post was deleted. I have no-where to copy from. "It never happened".
The thread was "The Democrats are poised to strike Bush"(?). My comment was (can't remember verbatim, not a conspiracy Mike) "That's because the Democrats have so much to work with considering Bush's incompetent/ineffective leadership. They should run a political cartoon/ad featuring Elmer Fudd (with hair) as Bush."
http://www.strangepersons.com/images/content/15967.JPG
Considering what has passed TFL and other sites WITH NO OBJECTIONS against Clinton in the past and even the present, why does Mike and Rich object? Too much anti-Bush posting? I beg to differ, my views on Bush has most often been the minority view on the conservative TFL and yet I guess a minority view is too much. I'm sure it's not what I say BUT how I say it (red herring?). My posting style has not changed (I spell better) but Mike is convinced that it's not the subject matter (anti-IRAQ War and anti-Bush) and not censorship. Is TFL Rich's personal web page or a forum? And you really want anti-gunners and Democrats to visit TFL and gain a better image of gun owners. A good logical argument (research ?)is more effective against dissension than censorship!
Post by: Guest on September 27, 2005, 02:31:40 PM
I try to behave, but dang, its tough.
Post by: Guest on September 27, 2005, 02:51:01 PM