Free Speech, unless, of course, violent terrorists get offended

[makattak]

Nope, not a pundit, a sitting justice of the Supreme Court:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/george/2010/09/justice-stephen-breyer-is-burning-koran-shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater.html#tp

Nice to have yet another example of who is on the side of Liberty.

[longeyes]

He's right about this much: America has become a "theater," not a nation, and there's a lot of arson going on.

[vaskidmark]

So (other than the pesky rules that SCOTUS imposes for visiting their playground) I can't line up a bunch of fully semi-automatic rifles with gonkulators and the shoulder-thingy that goes up in front of them and yell "Fire"?  I can live with that (most days).

But saying that doing something that gets the figurative panties of some Islamofascist 2/3rds of te way around the world in a wad is prohibited because it was designed to inflame his sensabilities is a no-no?  Nope!  Not gonna buy that.  That dog don't hunt, fly, nor fetch the bacon.

Not just because it gives power to some foreign nutcase but because it then also means I can't inflame the passions of the voters to throw certain bums out of office and throw certain other bums into office.

stay safe.

[griz]

Burning a holy book is like shouting "fire" in a crowded theater?  How did he vote on flag burning?

Now I'm a big believer in the 1st Amendment, I think burning the Koran, the flag, or the Bible should be allowed even though all of them are bad ideas.  But when a Justice says:

That’s the virtue of cases, and not just cases. Cases produce briefs, briefs produce thought. Arguments are made. The judges sit back and think. And most importantly, when they decide, they have to write an opinion, and that opinion has to be based on reason.

His reasoning is doubtful unless he is consistent.

[griz]

Just looked it up, Justice Breyer has only been there 16 years and the flag burning decision was about 20 years ago. (Dang-I am OLD)  So he didn't vote on that one. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

so would you buy this?


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/06/petraeus-warns-churchs-koran-burning/

its available in fox newspeak as well if that helps

and could wold you live with the possibility that by flexing your rights here, safely, some kid living not so sake gets to pay the price?  the analogy to shouting fire is not that much a reach.  now if the guys over there wanted to burn a koran at least they would be putting THEIR money where their mouth is  unlike the great religious leader in florida and the 50 members of his cult

[Monkeyleg]

I think the idea of burning Koran's (or Quran's) is stupid.

Having said that, what motivation does Breyer ascribe to terrorists for flying planes into buildings, cutting off heads and blowing themselves up in public places? Getting kicks on a boring Saturday night?

Some people really can't grasp the idea that the Islamofacists already hate us, and will always hate us no matter what we do or don't do.

[makattak]

so would you buy this?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/06/petraeus-warns-churchs-koran-burning/

its available in fox newspeak as well if that helps

and could wold you live with the possibility that by flexing your rights here, safely, some kid living not so sake gets to pay the price?  the analogy to shouting fire is not that much a reach.  now if the guys over there wanted to burn a koran at least they would be putting THEIR money where their mouth is  unlike the great religious leader in florida and the 50 members of his cult

I understand the issue. Muslims are going to kill people when they get offended and probably not the people who do the offending (because it's hard to kill them.)

If, as a result of that, we outlaw offending Muslims, how have we done anything but encouraged them?

[RevDisk]

and could wold you live with the possibility that by flexing your rights here, safely, some kid living not so sake gets to pay the price?  the analogy to shouting fire is not that much a reach.  now if the guys over there wanted to burn a koran at least they would be putting THEIR money where their mouth is  unlike the great religious leader in florida and the 50 members of his cult

And that's their job.  To defend the US, not to bow to foreign rabble.

Should you burn (insert book, whether Koran or Bible or Dr Seuss)?  I happen like books better than most people.   But you have specific rights under the First Amendment to burn whatever you wish. 

[dm1333]

and could wold you live with the possibility that by flexing your rights here, safely, some kid living not so sake gets to pay the price?  the analogy to shouting fire is not that much a reach.  now if the guys over there wanted to burn a koran at least they would be putting THEIR money where their mouth is  unlike the great religious leader in florida and the 50 members of his cult

Yeah, I can live with that possibility.  Because terrorists are looking for any excuse to attack us.  If it isn't Koran burning it will be (and has been) something else.  Did anyone burn a Koran in 1993 the first time bin Laden tried to take out the WTC?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

the point is that all of us here can live with it   no ones gonna do anything to us.  now if the florida pastor wants to flex i'll organize a fundraiser to send him over their to do his thing  heck i'll help raise his burial money.   i wouldn't kill someone over a burned bible  i would think less of them but its not a shooting offense to me.   its a cultural thing.   now if your form of enlightened living is to lower yourself to the same level as those you see as the enemy   well thats part of your freedom of choice as an american   just gotta know that folks will think less of you for it   oh and some 20 year olds gonna likely take a shot for you. see if you can convince him it was worth it.   wanna turn some part of the middle east into a glassy parking lot?  i'm cool with that  the sophmoric chest beating that someone else pays for?   well sohmoric chest beating says it all

[RevDisk]

the point is that all of us here can live with it   no ones gonna do anything to us. 

Some of us did do overseas tours, C&SD.  Call me funny, but I'd say that moves a good number of us out of the "sophomoric chest beating" arena.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

good point   how did you feel about folks making your job more difficult and dangerous?  maybe getting you or even more important a subordinate hurt.  were the koran beating to really accomplish something that would be one thing  but as gestures go its weak   and hardly "christian"

[roo_ster]

good point   how did you feel about folks making your job more difficult and dangerous?  maybe getting you or even more important a subordinate hurt.  were the koran beating to really accomplish something that would be one thing  but as gestures go its weak   and hardly "christian"

I volunteered and took an oath to uphold the COTUS...for nice folks and for jerks. 

Also, there was no, "...if 7th-century savages get bent outta shape, then never mind..." clause.

If some schmoe in the Sunshine state is all it takes for Afghanis to go nutso, maybe we ought to leave them to their primitive ways.

I managed to get all busted up in the service without the help of screaming beards.

[dogmush]

Actually, the ability of some jerk in FL to burn whatever he wants is pretty much WHY I joined, and it's why I stay in, and it's with some professional pride that I watch fools in America exercise those rights without a terrorist shooting them.

If free speech didn't torque people off, I wouldn't have to protect it.

[RevDisk]

good point   how did you feel about folks making your job more difficult and dangerous?  maybe getting you or even more important a subordinate hurt.  were the koran beating to really accomplish something that would be one thing  but as gestures go its weak   and hardly "christian"

Depends.  If they made my job more difficult by doing something Constitutionally ok and expressing their freedom, it's kosher in my book.  I'd probably grumble a bit about morons and such, but I'd prefer to be dead than disobey my oath.  I never swore an oath to defend the Constitution solely when it's easy to do so.  I WANTED to defend the Constitution even if it was difficult, especially then.  Nothing worth anything comes easy in life.  And as for a gesture not being Christian, uh.  Well, that's not exactly been a high priority for me.

If free speech didn't torque people off, I wouldn't have to protect it.

FTW!

[Regolith]

Should you burn (insert book, whether Koran or Bible or Dr Seuss)?  I happen like books better than most people.   But you have specific rights under the First Amendment to burn whatever you wish, so long as you own it. 

FTFY. 

In any case, I liked Gay Cynic's take on it:

"Further, if a bunch of religious sorts whose skin is so thin and faith so fragile that the mere burning of a non-unique volume sends them into a literally violent hissy fit...then, in the same manner we must deal with a rabid dog or a zombie invasion, I suggest the appropriate response to a public hazard of this sort is to fix bayonets and hunt over bait until one runs out of crazies."

[kgbsquirrel]

and could wold you live with the possibility that by flexing your rights here, safely, some kid living not so sake gets to pay the price?  the analogy to shouting fire is not that much a reach.  now if the guys over there wanted to burn a koran at least they would be putting THEIR money where their mouth is  unlike the great religious leader in florida and the 50 members of his cult

What's the point of us defending the Constitution (1st amendment, burning flags/korans) if no one back home actually gets to exercise the rights enumerated in it?

the point is that all of us here can live with it   no ones gonna do anything to us.

When you ascribe to the principle that "I may not agree with your opinion, but I will defend to the death your right to express it," then sometimes you do actually have to back it up. I spent the best 6 years of my life ascribing to that principle and I almost did have to pay the piper in Afghanistan, and you know what? After that deployment I volunteered to go back three more times, including offering once to go in place of a married shipmate who had just arrived at the command. My take on this as someone who actually has paid into the constitutional till? Burn away buddy.

[griz]

My personal thanks to all the vets on this board who have been there and defended the freedoms we have.  Burning things to piss off other people strikes me as the wrong way to express your free speech, but I am proud of you guys (and probably gals too) who believe in our freedoms enough to support our inconvienent right to be a jerk.

[MechAg94]

What would we say if someone was threatened with violence if they voted? 
What would we say if someone was threatened with violence if they attended Church? 
What would we say if someone was threatened with violence if they bought a gun?

The Justice indicated it is similar to someone shouting Fire in a crowded theater.  IMO, that is wrong.  EVERYONE agrees that a fire in a crowded theater is a bad thing.  It is self evident.  In this case, only some people practicing a particular religion think it is bad.  IMO, the correct analogy is someone shouting "Supercalafragilisticespialidoscious" (sp?) in a crowded theater after some nut job threatened to kill people if someone uttered that word.  We shouldn't suppress the speaker in that case, we damn well should suppress the nut job(s) though. 

If those Westboro nut jobs threatened to kill people at funerals instead of just protesting, would we stop doing funerals for fallen soldiers?  Hell no.  Those people would be jailed or shot within days. 

[Nitrogen]

If a nitwit burning a Koran will endanger our boys and girls overseas, we either need to reevaluate our kids being over there, or reevaluate our strategy over there.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

could we make that "and/or"?

[taurusowner]

I'm astonished that there are really people who think there are Muslims who are not violent now, but a Koran burning is the one thing that will tip them over the edge.  And that includes General Petreus.  As if there are Taliban fighters in the mountains with mortars and RPKs not shooting them at US soldiers, but as soon as they hear some clergyman in American torched a Koran, that's all it takes for them to pull the trigger.

If you do something offensive, and someone reacts violently. The problem is not that you did something offensive. The problem is that person thinks violence is an appropriate response to being offended.

If my exercising of my Constitutional rights provokes someone to violence, they have a problem, not me.

[Perd Hapley]

If a nitwit burning a Koran will endanger our boys and girls overseas, we either need to reevaluate our kids being over there, or reevaluate our strategy over there.

Please do not disrespect our service members with such belittling terms as "boys," "girls," and "kids." 

I'm astonished that there are really people who think there are Muslims who are not violent now, but a Koran burning is the one thing that will tip them over the edge.  And that includes General Petreus.  As if there are Taliban fighters in the mountains with mortars and RPKs not shooting them at US soldiers, but as soon as they hear some clergyman in American torched a Koran, that's all it takes for them to pull the trigger.

This has already happened. 
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,156612,00.html

Protesters took to the streets in several Afghan cities last week after Newsweek published its report [of Korans being disrespected at Gitmo]. American flags were burned, relief organizations were attacked and at least 16 people were killed and scores injured in clashes with police.

Brackets mine.

It is a matter of the Afghanistan govt. being able to keep the support of its citizens, while working with a govt. (ours) that allows this to happen. I don't agree with Breyer, but it would be naive to dismiss Petraeus's concerns.  They are real.

[taurusowner]

Then those people were terrorists already and should have been and should continue to be shot as such.  If you think violence in a appropriate response to a Koran burning, a bullet is what you deserve.