Outdoor Life worships The Black Rifle

[Perd Hapley]

This month, Outdoor Life exorcises the spirit of Jim Zumbo.  Behold.

The World's Most Versatile Rifle

[nico]

Very nice article, but look at some of the comments 

[Monkeyleg]

"Running this article to please the black-rifle crowd demains the real purpose of an outdoor magazine and is an insult to Outdoor Life editors of old. Assault rifles in the woods are not ethical and ethics is our first and last resourse against the antis, not the NRA."

I'm certain that I've met this guy when working the gun shows for CCW. If it wasn't him, it was his cousin by his second daughter.

Hunters. 

[Bogie]

I talked to an Outdoor Life writer who I know a few weeks ago.

"What about Zumbo?"

"Nobody cares about Zumbo."
 
And that was the extent of the conversation. General "feel" I got was that the magazine is happy with him gone.


 

[Monkeyleg]

So, Bogie, we're back to the Fudd's dictacting gun politics again?

[Bogie]

Don't think so... Fun part was the guy suggested that I look into writing for 'em...

[Perd Hapley]

Most of the comments are good, but here are a few from the idiot side.

AR style rifles are useless in the woods

It's a great weapon.But thats what it is a weapon.I have seen this type of weapon first hand and the result.Be a Hunter use a hunting rifle.

 The AR is a hunting rifle.Its use and design is for hunting humans. Which it has done effectively. Granddad didn't use a garand on deer,because he wasn't ignorant enough to believe it was a deer rifle.  Jim Zumbos demise is an example of keyboard heros,being able to hide in anonymity.And post whatever they wish,regardless of final outcome.

you slimy scoundrels cant you just leave the animals alone

I have no objections to AR types based upon the "assault rifle" status. I simply don't like them in the woods or elsewhere and never will. The second amendment says you can own them, so own them. Make noise and flash at the range, the only place they can be used with any sense of purpose. However, I control my own deer woods and invite many friends to share them with me. I assure you there will never be an AR carried on my property and I will never share a camp elsewhere with one. The arguments beingmade here for the AR sound much like soccer fans who cry that all the people in the US who hate soccer are ignorant. We don't like your game and I don't like that rifle. I won't be around them, but that does not mean that I think you should be prventedfrom owning them or hunting with them.

[El Tejon]

As if the reason we have guns is to hunt deer.

The Flabby Flannels are always good for a laugh.

[LadySmith]

Been trying to wrap my brain around some of the comments Fistful quoted and not having any luck.

[Len Budney]

The Flabby Flannels are always good for a laugh.

But dangerous. Divide and conquer. In the conflict between "Fudds" and "Rambos," only the gun grabbers can win.

--Len.



EDIT: NRA life member.

[K Frame]

Now maybe you're getting an idea of the challenges NRA faces in trying to keep its 4 million or so members both in line and happy, not to mention all the whiners who like to bitch about NRA, but who aren't members...

[Tallpine]

No one even mentioned that the .223 is not an adequate caliber for deer ...?

[Fly320s]

I'd say it's a little light for Montana Mulies or those monster corn-feed Iowa whitetails, but for a 90 to 120 lb whitetail, I think .223 works well enough.  Use a proper bullet, of course.

One other thing I didn't see mentioned, is that ARs are available in a wide range of calibers.  All the comments I read that disparaged the AR were focusing on the style of the rifle.

[K Frame]

No one even mentioned that the .223 is not an adequate caliber for deer ...?

In some parts of the country the .223 is perfectly adequate for deer given their relatively small size. I'd have no qualms about going after a Florida whitetail, given that their average live weight is under 100 pounds.

A Northern whitetail, which generally run a lot heavier? No.

[Len Budney]

No one even mentioned that the .223 is not an adequate caliber for deer ...?

If I can pull it together in time, I'm hoping to go after West Virginia whitetails with 7.62x39. A'course, my rifle isn't an AR, but it is black... 

--Len.

[Tallpine]

Sure, what is "adequate" would depend on the size of the deer and the shooting skill of the hunter.  One can take deer with a .22 rimfire.  Generally though, .223 would be suboptimal for deer sized game.  I think of it as a "varmit" caliber.

7.62*39 is somewhat analagous to a 30-30.  I usually hunt with a .243, though if the weather is really messy, I have gone out with the Saiga with soft points.  I have yet to kill a deer with it. (the deer are smarter than me - they don't go out in that weather)


Let's see ... back about 50 years or so, it was pretty common to hunt with surplus military bolt action rifles. 

[mtnbkr]

Besides, you can build an AR in a variety of calibers other than .223.  There's the various 6.Xmm cartridges, the 460SOCOM, the 50Beowulf, the 7.62x39, etc.

As for hunting with an AR, I'm not particularly driven to do it.  I'm more of a traditionalist in that regard and prefer something with blued metal and wood.  I don't care if anyone else does it, it's just not for me.  Hunting is a good excuse to buy pretty rifles like my Winny Featherweight or a Mannlicher-Shoenauer carbine.

Chris

[nico]

I like the simplicity of a bolt action for hunting, but seeing how dumb some people are makes me want to get a deer-suitable upper for my AR just to prove a point.

[zahc]

I can tell you that based on a great deal of personal experience with Ohio beanfield whitetails, that .223 with polymer tipped bullets is a perfectly adequate medium range deer gun. If you want to get them out to 400+ yards you might want to use the 22-250.

[Art Eatman]

I couldn't resist:

"While I have preferred the bolt-action rifle these last sixty-some years, I've also found that the AR can be quite usefully accurate. Sub-MOA is sub-MOA, regardless of platform.

A lot of these arguments are like kids and spinach: "How do you know you don't like it if you've never tried it?" "I just don't like it." "

, Art

[El Tejon]

One of my first adult prosecutions was a guy who shot over 80 deer (DNR found 80) with a .22-250 from atop his tractor one fall.

Nice, big, health Yankee deer raised on veggies and apples, not those little dog deer like in Texas where everything is allegedly bigger (but the animals apparently).  It was an enormous waste of protein.

[mtnbkr]

Shooting them for fun?  Or keeping (most of) the meat?

Chris

[K Frame]

My guess is that he was shooting them because they were eating more crops than he was able to harvest.

[Len Budney]

My guess is that he was shooting them because they were eating more crops than he was able to harvest.

Yeah, 80 deer is too much for even the heartiest appetite. 

--Len.

[Gewehr98]

Even the Northern Whitetail up here are falling to the .223.  Wisconsin relaxed its minimum caliber restriction some time ago, with bonus results for herd management in the face of the current CWD outbreak.  I expect to see even more .223 AR variants in the woods this fall.  I packed a sidefolder AK in the woods last fall - I might just do the Colt AR thing this year, with handloaded 60gr Nosler Partitions.