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Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: makattak on June 08, 2011, 11:10:30 AM

Title: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: makattak on June 08, 2011, 11:10:30 AM
... and used it to break down a man's door over his ESTRANGED wife's STUDENT LOANS...

http://www.news10.net/news/article/141072/2/Dept-of-Education-breaks-down-Stockton-mans-door


Shut down the DoE. That's all I can say.
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on June 08, 2011, 12:08:25 PM
Sending letters to my Senators.

One is a Statist apologist (McCain), but Kyl can sometimes show some promise.


There is absolutely no way that a violent, confrontational search process is necessary for matters pertaining to the DOE.  The worst crimes they could be tasked with the investigation of, would be student loan fraud.  That's just not worth the risks of high intensity door-kicking surprise urban assaults.
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: longeyes on June 08, 2011, 12:25:51 PM
Student loans have become a primary tool of enslavement.  One should not expect the enslavers to be far away.
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: roo_ster on June 08, 2011, 12:30:12 PM
More dumbass SWATties who can't be bothered to do any prep or intel work.
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: red headed stranger on June 08, 2011, 12:36:17 PM
The DOE already has the power to garnish and seize tax returns.  What more did they want, an actual pound of flesh? 
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: longeyes on June 08, 2011, 12:37:58 PM
Seize the flesh and the rest will follow.
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: Scout26 on June 08, 2011, 12:41:49 PM
Is the DOE resorting to debtors prisons ?
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on June 08, 2011, 12:56:50 PM
Student loans have become a primary tool of enslavement.  One should not expect the enslavers to be far away.

 ;/

Gonna have to 'splayn that one, please.

Loans are a voluntary process.  No one compels anyone to get them.  It's 100% possible to go to community college for 2 years and pay cash rather than get loans, then 2 years at your local State school and get your BA, also paying cash.  Most community colleges around here cost about $2000 per semester for a typical class load, plus books.  Not that big of a deal.  ASU is incredibly inexpensive for a 4 year university, for AZ residents.  It's about $4800 per semester.  That might be a bit harder to pay cash for.... but no one said every student has to have a $125/month cell phone plan and a $300/month payment on a nice car.

I had nearly $30,000 in school loans when I graduated... but I went to one of the more expensive colleges in the Pacific Northwest.  I maxed out my unsubsidized Stafford loans, and got 1 Perkins loan on top of that.

I'm now down to about $12,500 left.  And should be done with that pretty quickly at the $600/month I'm paying towards it.

Anyone that welches on school loans is a waste of oxygen consumption, as far as I'm concerned.  That's just low.


ETA:  And by "waste of oxygen consumption," I don't mean it's okay for the DOE to engage in door-kicking human safaris.  I mean, throw the book at 'em in court.  But they ain't that dangerous to apprehend.
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: Tallpine on June 08, 2011, 01:03:54 PM
Quote
And by "waste of oxygen consumption," I don't mean it's okay for the DOE to engage in door-kicking human safaris.  I mean, throw the book at 'em in court.  But they ain't that dangerous to apprehend.

but they mite flush there diploma down the terlet   ;)
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: longeyes on June 08, 2011, 01:46:27 PM
;/

Gonna have to 'splayn that one, please.

Loans are a voluntary process.  No one compels anyone to get them.  It's 100% possible to go to community college for 2 years and pay cash rather than get loans, then 2 years at your local State school and get your BA, also paying cash.  Most community colleges around here cost about $2000 per semester for a typical class load, plus books.  Not that big of a deal.  ASU is incredibly inexpensive for a 4 year university, for AZ residents.  It's about $4800 per semester.  That might be a bit harder to pay cash for.... but no one said every student has to have a $125/month cell phone plan and a $300/month payment on a nice car.

I had nearly $30,000 in school loans when I graduated... but I went to one of the more expensive colleges in the Pacific Northwest.  I maxed out my unsubsidized Stafford loans, and got 1 Perkins loan on top of that.

I'm now down to about $12,500 left.  And should be done with that pretty quickly at the $600/month I'm paying towards it.

Anyone that welches on school loans is a waste of oxygen consumption, as far as I'm concerned.  That's just low.


ETA:  And by "waste of oxygen consumption," I don't mean it's okay for the DOE to engage in door-kicking human safaris.  I mean, throw the book at 'em in court.  But they ain't that dangerous to apprehend.

The education system in the U.S. has become one more arm of the "bubble process."  Insanely escalating costs, spotty results, ever more bloated bureaucracies, increasing corporatization.  We're now in an era where college administrators make incomes in the high six figures; where they build edupolises, not universities, where you can spend $200K for an education that won't get you a job anywhere.  A degree in hard sciences may be worth the money, but it would hard to argue that any other degree is.  That you can't escape a student loan even by bankruptcy underscores the "enslavement" point I was making.

Add:

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2011/06/08/dartmouth_takes_more_money_from_endowment_returns_for_administrative_costs

http://www.goldwaterinstitute.org/article/4941
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: dm1333 on June 08, 2011, 01:51:53 PM
This explains why they needed these shotguns.  [popcorn]

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=23640.0
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 08, 2011, 01:59:31 PM
Education Department says it doesn’t send SWAT teams after loan defaulters
By Liz Goodwin

        Email
        Print

A Stockton, Calif., man says a SWAT team broke his door and dragged him out of his house during an unexpected 6 a.m. raid targeting his estranged ex-wife.

Kenneth Wright, who has no criminal record, told ABC News 10 he complained to the local cops about the raid. But according to Wright, the Stockton police denied ordering the raid, saying instead it was the handiwork of  the federal Department of Education.

Wright told the station that the Education Department was after unpaid federal loans owed by his ex-wife. "They busted my door for this," Wright says. The claim has been repeated by numerous news outlets who picked up the story, which is so popular it appears to have crashed the local station's online story.

But Education Department Press Secretary Justin Hamilton said in a statement to The Lookout that the department "does not execute search warrants for late loan payments." He said the Office of the Inspector General "conducts about 30-35 search warrants a year on issues such as bribery, fraud, and embezzlement of federal student aid funds." Hamilton said the department cannot comment on this particular case until the investigation is over, but did add that the claim the warrant was executed for late loan payment is untrue.

About 8.9 percent of all federal loan recipients (about 330,000 people) defaulted between 2008 and 2010, the highest percentage in more than a decade. Unlike students who have some types of private students loans, borrowers with federal loans can't declare bankruptcy as a way to get out of repayment.

Still, Wright was not the subject of the agency's investigation. He animatedly explains in the segment below that he was handcuffed while still in his underwear and was made to wait in a police car for several hours with his three young children. Police told the station he wasn't handcuffed.

Wright says he wants an apology and for the Department of Education to fix his door. "Please pay your bills, take care of your credit," he says. "If you don't believe me, this could be you one morning, 6 o'clock in the morning."
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: brimic on June 08, 2011, 02:05:54 PM
Quote
That you can't escape a student loan even by bankruptcy underscores the "enslavement" point I was making.


If so many people in the past hadn't defaulted on their student loans in order to shirk paying the debt, it wouldn't be the case today.

A swat 'intervention' is way over the top.

I've always said, and still stand by it- if a person has enough intelligence and drive to complete a college degree, they should very well have enough intelligence and drive to figure out how they will pay for it- whether it be their own business, job, scholarships, or savings to pay for it on the front side, loans on the backside, or a mixture of both.

I have no sympathy for those who skate through a dumbed down degree who later find they have no means of paying for it.
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: Tallpine on June 08, 2011, 02:07:48 PM
Quote
Education Department says it doesn’t send SWAT teams after loan defaulters

Well, somebody did  :O
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 08, 2011, 02:12:14 PM
wonder why homey or the "journalists" won't show the warrant?
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on June 08, 2011, 02:17:10 PM
Education Department says it doesn’t send SWAT teams after loan defaulters


No, they send them after failed white-collar criminals who can't cover their tracks and got enticed into a stupid crime while aged somewhere between 18 and 25.

This demographic tends to be young, relatively stupid or naive, and have young children and spouses.  They also tend to NOT be armed (liberal college bias is strong) and enjoy arguments.

They'll ANSWER THE FRACKING DOOR IF YOU KNOCK.
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: roo_ster on June 08, 2011, 02:18:46 PM
About 8.9 percent of all federal loan recipients (about 330,000 people) defaulted between 2008 and 2010, the highest percentage in more than a decade.

Let this ^^^ be a warning to folks who are thinking about taking out a loan for school.
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 08, 2011, 02:28:51 PM
No, they send them after failed white-collar criminals who can't cover their tracks and got enticed into a stupid crime while aged somewhere between 18 and 25.

This demographic tends to be young, relatively stupid or naive, and have young children and spouses.  They also tend to NOT be armed (liberal college bias is strong) and enjoy arguments.

They'll ANSWER THE FRACKING DOOR IF YOU KNOCK.


supported by?
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 08, 2011, 02:33:10 PM

http://www.news10.net/news/article/141072/2/Dept-of-Education-breaks-down-Stockton-mans-door


I'm getting a 404 on this link.
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: makattak on June 08, 2011, 02:38:24 PM
I'm getting a 404 on this link.


They've since pulled the article. There are updates. Original story:

http://centralstockton.news10.net/news/community/dept-education-breaks-down-stockton-mans-door/72578

Also, from C&SD's link:

Quote
He said the Office of the Inspector General "conducts about 30-35 search warrants a year on issues such as bribery, fraud, and embezzlement of federal student aid funds."


Any of those crimes seem to necessitate a no-knock SWAT raid on a home where the intended subject doesn't live?
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 08, 2011, 02:39:43 PM
where hubby says she doesn't live

the variety of scams being run is quite artful.  profitable too
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: Scout26 on June 08, 2011, 02:42:01 PM
IIRC, wasn't it somewhere in the Obamacare legislation that from now on, banks would not issue student loans, only the fed.gov?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/us/politics/12loans.html
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: brimic on June 08, 2011, 02:49:03 PM
Quote
the variety of scams being run is quite artful.  profitable too
But not smart.
In Milwaukee, they simply skip college (if they even make it through more than 2 years of HS), start producing babies and start up child care/day care scams. Get a dozen or so baby's mommas to open seperate day cares, and have each of them claim they are watching the other's kids in their business, money rolls in from the state because until recently, the state turned a blind eye toward it.
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 08, 2011, 02:52:46 PM
not just chicago   sadly
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on June 08, 2011, 02:58:29 PM

supported by?

http://californiawatch.org/dailyreport/student-demographics-loan-repayment-largely-unrelated-10606

Estimated repayment rates by institution - FY 2009
InstitutionEstimated repayment rate
STANFORD UNIVERSITY80%
UC BERKELEY73%
UC RIVERSIDE65%
UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA62%
MILLS COLLEGE59%
CSU LOS ANGELES55%
SAN FRANCISCO STATE UNIVERSITY54%
ART INSTITUTE OF CALIFORNIA - SAN DIEGO47%
UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX44%
DEVRY UNIVERSITY38%
LOS ANGELES CITY COLLEGE37%
ARGOSY UNIVERSITY - ORANGE COUNTY36%
KAPLAN UNIVERSITY27%
Source: U.S. Department of Education    



By no means an exhaustive list of all colleges by any stretch.  But, what I see here is that the more fru-fru or disreputable the degree, the less likely someone is to repay their loans.  

Art Institute of California... an art school.  Low repayment rate.  Also a for-profit school.
U PHX... this school is LEGENDARY for being a slacker school.  Everything is done as "groups" and typically only 1-2 people in the group end up doing the work.  I've had several friends from GOOD schools end up pursuing additional degrees at U PHX and loathing the experience due to that fact.
Kaplan has a similar tradition to U PHX.
DeVry also has a similar tradition to U PHX.
Argosy is another of the "for profit" colleges that are degree mills with no challenge.
CSU-LA is another one.

I'm willing to bet that Apollo College also has a similar tradition.  And ITT.

Basically, just about anything on this list I suspect is going to have the lowest student loan repayment rates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_for-profit_universities_and_colleges


Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 08, 2011, 03:01:18 PM
They've since pulled the article. There are updates. Original story:

http://centralstockton.news10.net/news/community/dept-education-breaks-down-stockton-mans-door/72578


Ah, that's better.

Quote
Also, from C&SD's link:
 
Any of those crimes seem to necessitate a no-knock SWAT raid on a home where the intended subject doesn't live?

I wasn't arguing that.   The notion of the DoE having a SWAT team is something I'd expect in Terry Gilliam's Brazil.

Although to be fair, this is Stockton CA, where residents vacation in Detroit because it's safer ...
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on June 08, 2011, 03:10:41 PM
I'm happy to say that the default rate for my college, for the most recent data  I can find, is 0.6%.

http://collegemeasures.org/reporting/institution/scorecard/sldr/236328.aspx

ASU is 3.1%.

Stanford appears to be at 0.8%.

DeVry does not release their default rates to collegemeasures.org.
University of Phoenix (Phoenix Campus) has a 12.9% default rate.
Collins college has a 10% default rate.




Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: roo_ster on June 08, 2011, 07:17:55 PM
I wasn't arguing that.   The notion of the DoE having a SWAT team is something I'd expect in Terry Gilliam's Brazil.

Ayup.
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: Boomhauer on June 08, 2011, 08:20:45 PM
Quote
The notion of the DoE having a SWAT team is something I'd expect in Terry Gilliam's Brazil.

I completely agree.

I don't see a legitimate need for agencies like the DOE, USDA, and so forth to have SWAT teams or even gun toting agents when you know, there are whole federal agencies dedicated to LE. Such as the FBI. Got a problem that needs armed popo for a federal crime? Call the local FBI office.

Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: lee n. field on June 08, 2011, 08:41:43 PM
---delete---
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: makattak on June 08, 2011, 10:16:27 PM
I completely agree.

I don't see a legitimate need for agencies like the DOE, USDA, and so forth to have SWAT teams or even gun toting agents when you know, there are whole federal agencies dedicated to LE. Such as the FBI. Got a problem that needs armed popo for a federal crime? Call the local FBI office.



Exactly. My problem (aside from my little girl having messed up my preferred shift key, making it far more difficult to type this post) is that the DOE has a SWAT team. The use of a SWAT team in this instance may, through some unimaginable circumstances, be legitimate. I doubt that, but it's possible. My problem is that the DOE should never have had such a team in the first place.
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: MicroBalrog on June 09, 2011, 08:40:01 AM
where hubby says she doesn't live

the variety of scams being run is quite artful.  profitable too

What human purpose does a no-knock warrant serve in a fraud case?

Suppose the wife lived there - what was she going to do, fold up her student loan papers and eat them?
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 09, 2011, 10:10:12 AM
was it a no knock?  or are all of them no knocks in your minds eye?
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: MechAg94 on June 09, 2011, 10:54:20 AM
was it a no knock?  or are all of them no knocks in your minds eye?
Well, it isn't no-knock if they knock as they are tearing down the door.
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: longeyes on June 09, 2011, 11:29:34 AM
The big picture is that education is Big Business now...or Big Ed.  Big Ed is no different from the entire public sector union coalition that wants to control America.

Here's a story on how university administrators will shortly outnumber faculty at our institutions of learning:

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2011/06/university-administrators-will.html
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: MicroBalrog on June 09, 2011, 12:00:55 PM
The big picture is that education is Big Business now...or Big Ed.  Big Ed is no different from the entire public sector union coalition that wants to control America.

Here's a story on how university administrators will shortly outnumber faculty at our institutions of learning:

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2011/06/university-administrators-will.html

Longeyes... I have to ask. Have you attended graduate school?
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: MicroBalrog on June 09, 2011, 12:02:57 PM
http://www.news10.net/news/article/141108/2/Questions-surround-feds-raid-of-Stockton-home

Do you see a knock?
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: T.O.M. on June 09, 2011, 12:25:10 PM

I don't see a legitimate need for agencies like the DOE, USDA, and so forth to have SWAT teams or even gun toting agents when you know, there are whole federal agencies dedicated to LE. Such as the FBI. Got a problem that needs armed popo for a federal crime? Call the local FBI office.


For years now, I've been arguing (mainly over beers and wings) that a great deal of money could be saved by placing all federal criminal investigations in the hands of the FBI, Secret Service, and US Marshall's Serice.  Yes, you would need to increase the budget of these agencies, to a degree, but you could save millions in the budget just by eliminating the duplication.  With seemingly every federal agency having its own investigative and enforcement department, you are talking about hundreds of sworn officers and all of their weapons and equipment that could be removed from the budget.

As for the OP, I'll be interested to see how it all turns out.  His lawsuit for a 4th Amendment violation could be groundbreaking legal precedent...or a quick settlement out of court for an undisclosed amount of cash...
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: longeyes on June 09, 2011, 03:51:19 PM
Longeyes... I have to ask. Have you attended graduate school?

More than one.  But, thankfully, not recently.

I know you're a grad student, Micro.  What is your field, if I may ask?
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: MicroBalrog on June 09, 2011, 03:53:00 PM
More than one.  But, thankfully, not recently.

In my experience, universities are always - no matter the amount of 'administrators' are de-facto run by their professors. Not individual professors, but academics as a class. This is the inner cause of most if not all problems in academia.
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 09, 2011, 05:13:19 PM
http://www.news10.net/news/article/141108/2/Questions-surround-feds-raid-of-Stockton-home

Do you see a knock?

is there video of the raid?


any affiliation with the black hebrews here? this is an area they've learned to play
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: MicroBalrog on June 09, 2011, 05:25:01 PM
Black Hebrews? Well, I've worked with some. But what does this have to do with this?
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 09, 2011, 05:58:18 PM
its an interesting cult here.  specialty is financial scams.  at one time they specialized in getting a member a job in a bank then looting it
they've branched out.
have a history of killing folks
including young kids
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: Tallpine on June 09, 2011, 07:07:16 PM
its an interesting cult here.  specialty is financial scams.  at one time they specialized in getting a member a job in a bank then looting it
they've branched out.
have a history of killing folks
including young kids

and the point is  ???
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 09, 2011, 07:13:08 PM
wanna see the missing 40 pages of affidavit and warrant  see if they are members
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: dogmush on June 09, 2011, 07:21:05 PM
wanna see the missing 40 pages of affidavit and warrant  see if they are members

Let's assume here that the guy in the house is Tony Montana, and he met them at the door with an M203.

That doesn't justify the DEPARTMENT OF GORRAM EDUCATION getting a tac team.  If the student loan skippers  ;/ are THAT damn bad, call the FBI.  Every damn federal department doesn't need a SWAT team and the toys that go with them.

And why am I not surprised that you're already painting the guy whose ex-wife the DOE is after as a baby-killer.  I swear to god you never met a jack-boot you didn't lick like.
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: longeyes on June 09, 2011, 07:36:14 PM
In my experience, universities are always - no matter the amount of 'administrators' are de-facto run by their professors. Not individual professors, but academics as a class. This is the inner cause of most if not all problems in academia.

I think that used to be the case, and maybe where you are it still is, but I think American universities have now become one more branch of social welfare filigreed with mythological trappings about education and democracy.  How much real learning gets done is questionable; ditto how much actual preparation for society.  Absolutely staggering amounts of money, much of it public, are channeled through the education machine with increasingly dubious results.  (The hard sciences and engineering remain an endangered oasis.)
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 09, 2011, 07:57:23 PM
Let's assume here that the guy in the house is Tony Montana, and he met them at the door with an M203.

That doesn't justify the DEPARTMENT OF GORRAM EDUCATION getting a tac team.  If the student loan skippers  ;/ are THAT damn bad, call the FBI.  Every damn federal department doesn't need a SWAT team and the toys that go with them.

And why am I not surprised that you're already painting the guy whose ex-wife the DOE is after as a baby-killer.  I swear to god you never met a jack-boot you didn't lick like.


don't know enough yet.  so far the story we got thats being zong'd is lacking in facts.  heck i haven't even seen balko touch this yet
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: RoadKingLarry on June 09, 2011, 11:44:17 PM
Let's assume here that the guy in the house is Tony Montana, and he met them at the door with an M203.

That doesn't justify the DEPARTMENT OF GORRAM EDUCATION getting a tac team.  If the student loan skippers  ;/ are THAT damn bad, call the FBI.  Every damn federal department doesn't need a SWAT team and the toys that go with them.

And why am I not surprised that you're already painting the guy whose ex-wife the DOE is after as a baby-killer.  I swear to god you never met a jack-boot you didn't lick like.

You forgot about Sheriff Joe, he doesn't like Joe. =D
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 10, 2011, 07:46:49 AM
once upon a time i was greatly a joe fan.  that faded upon closer examination. i also have seen real police gone wild and often find folks blow their "incidents" outa proportion.  and even when they do the zomg choir gathers to sing hallelujahs
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: MicroBalrog on June 10, 2011, 10:50:36 AM
I think that used to be the case, and maybe where you are it still is, but I think American universities have now become one more branch of social welfare filigreed with mythological trappings about education and democracy.  How much real learning gets done is questionable; ditto how much actual preparation for society.  Absolutely staggering amounts of money, much of it public, are channeled through the education machine with increasingly dubious results.  (The hard sciences and engineering remain an endangered oasis.)

The purpose of the History department is certainly not to 'prepare' anyone for 'society'. We cannot be called out as having failed as this was never our goal.

Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: MechAg94 on June 10, 2011, 11:59:06 AM
once upon a time i was greatly a joe fan.  that faded upon closer examination. i also have seen real police gone wild and often find folks blow their "incidents" outa proportion.  and even when they do the zomg choir gathers to sing hallelujahs
Please keep it up.  I may not agree with you all the time (or much  =D ), but we don't need to start doing the echo chamber on these threads either. 
Title: Re: The Department of Education has a SWAT team
Post by: longeyes on June 10, 2011, 12:05:47 PM
The purpose of the History department is certainly not to 'prepare' anyone for 'society'. We cannot be called out as having failed as this was never our goal.



Just remember when you're studying history to prepare your future.  It's coming, you know.

My point was not to debate pure academic studies versus career/vocational ed but to suggest that higher education is now big business and heavily dependent on gov't subsidies with all that implies.