Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: red headed stranger on June 10, 2009, 06:38:19 AM
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WASHINGTON (AP) — The House of Representatives on Tuesday approved a "cash for clunkers" bill that aims to boost new auto sales by allowing consumers to turn in their gas-guzzling cars and trucks for vouchers worth up to $4,500 toward more fuel-efficient vehicles.
Link (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/sns-ap-us-cash-for-clunkers,0,289076.story)
If this were to pass, I bet it would have a similar affect as gun buyback programs. People will turn in their crappy jalopy that they haven't been driving anyway. Also, makes me wonder about the potential profit making opportunities for people who want to do the legwork to buy a $300-$500 clunker, and then turn it around into a $4500 "trade in." I know I might . . .
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I'm really PO'd that I am going to have to pay for another Great IdeaTM.
I think it was Hannity that was commenting yesterday that when Murtha was asked where the money for this boondoggle was coming from the Distinguished Gentleman kept on repeating "It's a voucher" as if he thought there was no actual money that had to come from somewhere attached to the plan.
There needs to be a way to get Congresspersons out of Oz and have to live in the real world.
stay safe.
skidmark
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Wow, what a deal.
I have a 1978 4x4 full size van I just lunched the engine in. This may come in handy.
But, I like my gas guzzler, this may present a problem.
bob
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Bob,
It already presents a problem. The problem is I do not like the idea that I have to pay for your "voucher".
The economy sucks so badly already that dealers ought to be ready to cut prices even more than usual to get your business. If you move quickly you can find some former General Motors (as opposed to current Government Motors) dealers who need to unload inventory ASAP. They are going to go bust and bankrupt anyway, so selling for some money before that happens is better than holding on to a large liability. It's called creating your own voucher without government assistance.
stay safe.
skidmark
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Wow, what a deal.
I have a 1978 4x4 full size van I just lunched the engine in. This may come in handy.
But, I like my gas guzzler, this may present a problem.
bob
You have one of my dream toys....however I don't have the room or the time to work on something like that right now.....
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Be glad that you're not in Israel. THe new 'right-wing' government here instituted a 92% tax on all new cars except for Mini/Smart type setups.
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skidmark,
I really don't think anyone would give me 4500 in trade in for my van. It is a 78 after all.
The only thing I would trade it in on would be another 4x4 van, which I won't do.
The one I have is smog equipment free, computer free and still servicable.
I will get a long block and swap it out, I have no intention of buying anything new for quite a while.
But, the requirement to trade up to increased gas milage is a cinch, I get about 9-10 miles to the gallon, uphill, downhill, headwind, tailwind, on road or off. Plus if I can get the traction in 4 wheel drive, I could probably pull my house off the foundation. Something to be said for the 460 Ford engines with gobs of torque.
So now you don't need to be concerned about funding my "voucher", I am sure there will be plenty others to fund if this passes.
bob
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I really wish I could come buy that thing offa you....
:laugh:
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You have one of my dream toys....however I don't have the room or the time to work on something like that right now.....
Is there room in El Tejon's Front yard to park it, until you two can work out a deal ??
=D =D :angel: :angel:
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So how long will it be before we are o longer permitted to drive our old gas guzzleing clunkers?
Require salvage yards to shredd/recycle everything more than XX years old.
Not allowed to register a vehicle more than XX years old or an exponential increase in registration fees for older vehicles, with maybe an exception for antiques.
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So how long will it be before we are o longer permitted to drive our old gas guzzleing clunkers?
Require salvage yards to shredd/recycle everything more than XX years old.
Not allowed to register a vehicle more than XX years old or an exponential increase in registration fees for older vehicles, with maybe an exception for antiques.
Shhhh, Don't give them any ideas. :police: :police:
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Is there room in El Tejon's Front yard to park it, until you two can work out a deal ??
In the neighborhood across from mine, there was a Goldwing parked in someone's yard.
I say, "hey, you from Illinois or something. Move your bike and put on a shirt and shoes."
=D
Neighborhood Police=> :police:
(Keep Lafayette Beautiful, Keep Kirk Inside His Office)
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Does it say how many junkers I can buy now to convert into vouchers later?
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You can bet that when you take your 4500 buck voucher down to the dealer, the only break you are going to get off the list price is 4500 bucks. There is no way the dealer will give you more than the voucher off of the price. Just watch......Or, the dealer will give you 4500 bucks for your trade in which reduces the list price 4500 bucks, then sells it to the government for 4500 bucks, thus sold a car for list price.......chris3
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Does it say how many junkers I can buy now to convert into vouchers later?
There's actually a fairly clever clause that only allows cars that have been insured for the past year to receive the credit. Not too many junkers with insurance running around these days.
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I really wish I could come buy that thing offa you....
What would you do with this old clunker?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2F0603%2FBob8251%2F100_0562.jpg&hash=67723089b48f53586b3e873d6b6acf09e5bf5912)
I think I will try to keep it going another 20 years or so.
bob
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So my twenty-five year old Toyota is technically not a clunker, despite the noxious (and occasionally visible) emissions, body damage and missing paint, because it still gets well over 18 mpg? Something smells fishy with this voucher deal. You get one for a new SUV that gets only 2 mpg more than your current SUV? Hardly environmentally based - they just want to sucker you into buying a new car from your new car company.
Bob, that's a badass van. I'd keep it for awhile, too.
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15 to 20 years California had a "Cash for Clunkers" program that was almost exactly like the "Gun buy back" programs. People were turning in old cars, many that hadn't been driven much in years. Many of the cars were in great shape or were from the muscle/pony car years. Untold numbers of collector cars were crushed before they managed to get that abomination shut down or modified with a grace period allowing the cars to be purchased to restore or use for parts. I know it doesn't look the greatest, but I'm not giving up my Lightning p/u.
Tim
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What would you do with this old clunker?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2F0603%2FBob8251%2F100_0562.jpg&hash=67723089b48f53586b3e873d6b6acf09e5bf5912)
I think I will try to keep it going another 20 years or so.
bob
Roof rack with off-road lights front, rear, sides, and a pull out awning. Front bucket seats, middle row bench seat. No back seats, with locking gun storage and overhead rod storage. Front winch bumper with rod holders for surf rods. Rear bumper with jerry can storage and spare tire rack. Larger gas can. GPS, Satellite radio. Front and rear limited slips. Skid plates on the differentials and transfercase.
Ideally, it would be diesel. Is that a one ton? (where's the "drool" smiley?)
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There's actually a fairly clever clause that only allows cars that have been insured for the past year to receive the credit. Not too many junkers with insurance running around these days.
Another limitation is that the voucher has to be used for the purchase of a new car. How many new cars can the average Joe afford right now?
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Hmm, that new car I was reading about is supposed to be imported within a year or two. http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/NussbaumOnDesign/archives/2008/01/indias_new_car.html (http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/NussbaumOnDesign/archives/2008/01/indias_new_car.html) Supposedly they'll be trying for a $2500 list price. Sooo, I can trade in a clunker, get my $4500 voucher, and actually get cash back when I leave the dealership with a new car? Great! Where do I sign up? Clearly, all the living within my means stuff, and all that tripe about personal responsibility I used to believe in is out of fashion.
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15 to 20 years California had a "Cash for Clunkers" program that was almost exactly like the "Gun buy back" programs.
I kept getting notices from the state to turn in my "old" 1980 Buick for $500. However, in order to get the money my car had to pass the rules on their checklist:
Currently registered and insured. Check.
Must have passed smog and emissions tests within the year. Check.
In fair mechanical condition. Check.
The last time I got a notice, I returned the completed checklist with a note stating that since my car was still in such good shape, I was keeping it. =)
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What would you do with this old clunker?
Duuude, quadraphonic system with 8-track and a mattress in the back! =D
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What would you do with this old clunker?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2F0603%2FBob8251%2F100_0562.jpg&hash=67723089b48f53586b3e873d6b6acf09e5bf5912)
Do you have any candy mister?
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I'll note that there probably aren't too many takers for this, and by my math, you HAVE to offer the $4.5k to get many people to take it. The limitations really restrict it - there's a lot of choices out there that won't net the full money.
As with many such programs, it's often not enough to change an uneconomical decision into a new one. IE if you weren't already considering a new vehicle because your old one is dying/no longer meets needs, you're probably not a candidate for this.
Personally, the only reason I'd justify this would be on pollution prevention. A 20 year old car pollutes a LOT more than a new one, especially if it's had iffy maintenance. To an extent that you can prevent more pollution by buying out the people driving the worst clunkers for less money than raising emissions standards yet again.
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One of our cars is on its last legs, but this still doesn't help me. It's a piece of crap, but it gets 35-40 mpg.
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One of our cars is on its last legs, but this still doesn't help me. It's a piece of crap, but it gets 35-40 mpg.
And that equals or exceeds most hybrids out there!
Of course, to get the weight down we'd need to build the vehicle with carbon fiber or something today.
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I'll note that there probably aren't too many takers for this, and by my math, you HAVE to offer the $4.5k to get many people to take it. The limitations really restrict it - there's a lot of choices out there that won't net the full money.
As with many such programs, it's often not enough to change an uneconomical decision into a new one. IE if you weren't already considering a new vehicle because your old one is dying/no longer meets needs, you're probably not a candidate for this.
The Feds are basing the program off of a similar German program (Abwrackprämie) that gives 2.5k Euros (~3.5k USD) towards the purchase of a new car for scrapping an old car. The Abwrackprämie has been a huge success.* Instead of the 20-40% decreases in car sales the rest of the world has been seeing, the German auto market is on track for a record year. The Feds figure they can replicate that level of success in America with a bit more incentives and push for a bit of 'greenness' while they're at it.
* Law of Unintended Consequences aside. In all probability, German market car sales are going to drop through the floor in 2010 when this program ends with nasty results for German car makers.
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I have never bought a new car and probably never will. I never have the requisite tens of thousands laying around in cash and there is no way in hell I would get into debt for a car. House - yes. Guns - yes. Car - no.