Gold and Silver registration in IL

[AZRedhawk44]

http://www.thedailybell.com/28559/Gold-and-Silver-Registration-in-Illinois

A bill to register gold and silver coins: It had to come. It has been introduced in Illinois, the most anti-gun state in the USA. ... Creates the Precious Metal Purchasing Act. Provides that a person who is in the business of purchasing precious metal shall obtain a proof of ownership, create a record of the sale, and verify the identity of the seller. Provides that a person who is in the business of purchasing precious metal shall not pay for the precious metal in cash and shall record the method of payment. Requires the purchaser to keep a record of the sale for one year or, if the purchase amount is over $500, for 5 years. Provides that a person who violates the Act is guilty of a petty offense and subject to a fine not exceeding $500. Provides that the Attorney General may inspect records, investigate an alleged violation, and take action to collect civil penalties.

IL senate bill SB3144.

Obama's test-run in his home utopia of Chi-town/IL, prior to pushing for it at a fed level?


Superficially, it appears to apply to those "we buy gold" places.  To discourage home burglars and the like from snatching up jewelry and selling it for cash at raw gold smelters.

Applicability to the precious metals and numismatic markets?  I dunno.  There's several good PM merchants here in PHX that will either buy or sell at spot +/- a small amount.  And they'll buy in cash, which I like.  And they'll sell for cash, which I like.  Heck, one of them will trade PM's for bitcoin and vice-versa.  Very anonymous.

This bill could interfere with that (at least in IL).  If I buy PM's with my post tax income and they "appreciate" (the notion of PM's appreciating in value makes me laugh when it's really inflation making money worth less), I don't want to get a check when/if I sell them back elsewhere.  With a check, I have to cash it.  If I ever get audited, I have to explain that check.  I buy my PM's cash and don't keep receipts. 

[Boomhauer]

Superficially, it appears to apply to those "we buy gold" places.  To discourage home burglars and the like from snatching up jewelry and selling it for cash at raw gold smelters.

Which will work about as well as restricting cold medicine has worked or requiring scrappers to obey new laws concerning customers...which means it won't work at all to restrict criminal activity...

[Ron]

It is almost as if in order to become a legislator in Illinois you are required to read all the novels describing dystopias and then you must promise to implement those ideas into law.   

[red headed stranger]

A remember about a year ago, I saw a documentary on the NatGeo channel about gold mining and the gold trade.  It was an overall interesting show.  However, nearly every scene ended with some kind of voiceover with the message that "gold gets melted down all the time, and then it's untraceable!!!!"  

Locking down precious metals and other personally-held wealth seems to be on the "to-do" list for the powers that be.  

[slingshot]

I don't see this law as working on a realistic basis.  So why are they bothering?  You can melt gold down and it just becomes a lump of gold.  So I guess there will be "good gold" as sold by the government and "bad" gold that is sold elsewhere.  Sounds like a reason to track people that cast their own bullets.

[kgbsquirrel]

1933.

[birdman]

1933.

Precisely.  This just makes it easier to enforce...just like any other sort of registration.  (Or my favorite new term "database")

[Fly320s]

I know there are plenty of businesses that won't accept cash.  Is a law that says cash can't be used a constitutional law?  Is the phrase, "For all debts, public and private" just for show? 

[birdman]

I know there are plenty of businesses that won't accept cash.  Is a law that says cash can't be used a constitutional law?  Is the phrase, "For all debts, public and private" just for show? 

I have had places refuse cash, starting with an apartment deposit about 12 years ago, so I guess it is just for show.

[Jamisjockey]

Many places refuse tender over $20 (ie no $50 or $100 bills).

I don't know what the law states re: using legal currency.  However, if terms of purchase are stated up front, how can it be wrong?

[slingshot]

Some businesses refuse cash because of the potential for stealing.

[Fly320s]

Many places refuse tender over $20 (ie no $50 or $100 bills).

I don't know what the law states re: using legal currency.  However, if terms of purchase are stated up front, how can it be wrong?

Some businesses refuse cash because of the potential for stealing.

I have had places refuse cash, starting with an apartment deposit about 12 years ago, so I guess it is just for show.

Yeah, I understand that some companies choose to do business that way. I wrote that in my post.

I am asking about laws that prohibit a person and/or a company from using cash.  Regardless of the legality, the idea that the US government would prevent a person from using US cash in a legal business is very strange to me.

[Jamisjockey]

Ah.
I've spent some silver certificates (no, they weren't valuable ones) at the gas station without so much as an odd look.

[HankB]

Ah.
I've spent some silver certificates (no, they weren't valuable ones) at the gas station without so much as an odd look.

I thought all silver certificates had a collector's value at least slightly above face, even in circulated condition . . . .

Many places refuse tender over $20 (ie no $50 or $100 bills).

Hmmm . . . could get sticky. If you offer to pay in legal tender US currency and they refuse payment, I can see an argument made that the good/service you obtained is a gift, especially if it's something already consumed (gasoline, food) and you weren't informed of the policy up front.

[AZRedhawk44]

Hmmm . . . could get sticky. If you offer to pay in legal tender US currency and they refuse payment, I can see an argument made that the good/service you obtained is a gift, especially if it's something already consumed (gasoline, food) and you weren't informed of the policy up front.

In private transactions, people may set terms for the contract.  If either side doesn't like the format of payment they can refuse to enter into a business agreement.

The key word here is "debt" in that whole "legal tender for all debts, public and private."

You have no debt to the 7-11 clerk for your Red Bull.  So he doesn't have to take your $100 bill if he doesn't want to.

[HankB]

. . . You have no debt to the 7-11 clerk for your Red Bull.  So he doesn't have to take your $100 bill if he doesn't want to.

Which is why I mentioned an item "already consumed." Agree that you can't walk out with a can of Red Bull the clerk refuses to sell to you unless you give him the denomination he wants, but if you've already eaten a meal at a restaurant and THEN they refuse payment after failing to inform you of their policy beforehand, that's where things can get dicey.

[Jamisjockey]

I thought all silver certificates had a collector's value at least slightly above face, even in circulated condition . . . .

Hmmm . . . could get sticky. If you offer to pay in legal tender US currency and they refuse payment, I can see an argument made that the good/service you obtained is a gift, especially if it's something already consumed (gasoline, food) and you weren't informed of the policy up front.

Slightly, yeah.

[RevDisk]

I have had places refuse cash, starting with an apartment deposit about 12 years ago, so I guess it is just for show.

For all debts, not all purchases. If you are trying to pay a debt, you can pay in cash. There however is no requirement for buying things in cash.

[MechAg94]

Most convenience stores I see will accept large bills, but have a limited amount of small bills to give in change so you have to buy a lot of stuff.

[freakazoid]

I think they are making way for the great werewolf invasion. Think about it.