What a load of crap!Gas rant inside.

[Sindawe]

It's moot now.The corner Shell just went to $3.50...

Ouch, thats close to my calculated "Drive to work vs. Ride the bus" point ($4.00/gallon) for when the office moves to Boulder next month.  Pity, I've enjoyed being able to walk to work on a daily basis and only having to refuel the daily driver every two months or so.  *SIGH*

Thanks, WalMart shoppers.

Hmmm...I wonder how many barrels of oil we could extract via depolimerization from all the plastic crap be we buy from China.

[jefnvk]

Thanks, WalMart shoppers.

Forgot to comment on that one.  Wal-Mart has pretty much been the cheapest gas anywhere for the past few weeks, around here at least.  Often by differences of 15-25 cents.

[K Frame]

"Oh, yeah. I'd forgotten about them.  How much of our money are they sitting on right about now?"

Uhm...

China isn't selling oil to us, .41 Mag.

They're BUYING oil on the open market, just as we are.

Only their economy has been absolutely superheating for the past decade, growing by leaps and bounds. Every uptick in their economic figures means that much more oil they need.

In that sense, they're no different than we are.

There's also another crucial player in this game -- India.

Their economy is also growing robustly, and they're demanding more and more oil.

[onions!]

Uhm...

China isn't selling oil to us, .41 Mag

Surrah,Ah do declare!I believe that you have me mixed up w/brother RileyMC.

41Mag has made no mention of China.

My stepdad works for a supplier of automotive electrical parts.When he visited one of their Chinese factories in 2003 he tried to explain to me just how big-how much their auto industry was,& was growing into.

On one hand I think that it would be neat to sit back & watch their auto industry grow.I wonder if they'll follow the American automakers?Or if they'll go their own way.:)On the other,they're just competition for oil.Nuke 'em.(that last is a tongue in cheek statement-don't nobody git riled)

[K Frame]

"Surrah,Ah do declare!I believe that you have me mixed up w/brother RileyMC."

Oops...

[The Rabbi]

My point is that I don't understand gouging during a "crisis".

I can't wait to see my gas bill this winter.You know,the one where you can't pick the vendor you buy from?

There is no "gouging" during a crisis.  That is talk from the Democratic caucus.

In commodities (and oil is one) there is an active market of buyers and sellers.  They buy/sell based on futures, i.e. what their expectation of future prices will be.  Sellers try to maximize their profits (by selling at the highest price) and buyers try to also (by buying at the lowest price).  But each one is looking at what supply and demand will be 1 week, 1 month, 3 months, 1 year down the road.
In a "crisis" it is unclear what the supply-demand picture will be because not all facts are known.  The tendency is to think the worst and adjust prices to reflect the risk in the situation.

Your gas bill?  You always have a choice.  How about switching to oil?  Or propane?  Or using wood?  Or moving to south TX where it's warmer?  There are numerous possibilities but the point is you are making choices, that you then need to pay for.  I dont know why anyone should have a problem with that.

[onions!]

Rabbi?I don't know about Demonrats but I look at it this way.

If there are ten stations that all get their fuel from the same vendor-off the same truck!-& one of them is(was) charging a 17ish% premium,then it seems to me that that fella is gouging his customer base.Like I said,it a moot point now.All the local stations seem to have deceided to jump on that bandwagon.

re.Your comments about the gas bill?The first three options aren't allowed in my city.The last option has some merit but the cost of moving a household vs. paying extra for home heating energy gonculates out to about (& I'm waaay doing the math on the fly)30 months of a mid-winter gas bill.There are choices & there are Choices.
I understand your point though.

[onions!]

& now it's back down to $3.19.

[saxman357]

Hey, I'm getting 40mpg with a $12,000 car.  Can't get much better than that.

50 mpg with a $5000 motorcycle here.  Doesn't work too well in the winter though.

[Sindawe]

But it could be adapted for snow saxman357.

Source: http://www.virginiawind.com/byways/history_04.asp

[spinr]

Well... at least some of y'all can still get gasoline.

The pumps are drying up here in WNC.  We are served by a distribution center that gets its' supply from the pipeline that comes from Louisiana, and it is quickly running out of product.

The .gov of Asheville just held a news conference stating that non-essential services would be limited, but would work to ensure essential services are maintained.  They encouraged county & city employees to use comp/vacation/sick time to stay home in order to conserve fuel.

Locally, there have been hordes of people flocking to gas stations all day to fill up while they can.  Some stations have already run out of fuel.  It's somewhat of a semi-controlled mayhem.  Tempers are flaring, traffic is heinous around the stations, some folks have even crashed into each other in their attempt to get to a pump.  Though, its' not quite SHTF time, it is a bit disconcerting.

Listening to their radio traffic, local law enforcement is having a tough go of it trying to keep things calm.  Just now a station owner had to call for help because of the people trying to force their way onto the station property, even when it was out of gas.

Crazy...

From what we've been told, it'll take about 72 hours to restore power to the pumping station in Louisiana.  Once that has been accomplished, it will take another 72 hours for the pipeline to be recharged and for the distribution centers to get a supply of fuel again.  So, all in all, they're saying we'll be in this predicament for about a week.  However, there are some places that are getting small shipments of fuel from other areas and some have said that only the smaller independant stations will be running out of fuel; that the larger corporate-owned stations will still have a supply available.  I think these initial shortages are primarily the result of panic buying.

Hopefully things will settle down and the next few days won't be a continuous repeat of the last few hours.

[TMM]

it's called supply and demand, guys. ever hear about it?

people need gas, and they pay what they're offered. the gas stations can bump up the price because people need the gas, and probably want to stock up. if i was near the hurricane area, i'd sure as hell knock up my prices.

[Paddy]

"Oh, yeah. I'd forgotten about them.  How much of our money are they sitting on right about now?"

Uhm...

China isn't selling oil to us, .41 Mag.

They're BUYING oil on the open market, just as we are.

Right.  And that's the point.  They've got PLENTY of money (which they got from us) to chase oil and drive up prices.

The tendency is to think the worst and adjust prices to reflect the risk in the situation.

Risk?  The risk the the 'investor' (aka gouger, profiteer, highbinder) might leave a nickel on the table?  The people exploiting crisis and human misery via price gouging are no different than the looters.  The motives are exactly the same.  Something for nothing.

[Paddy]

It's $2.93 here today.

[jefnvk]

then it seems to me that that fella is gouging his customer base

Seems to me that he is trying to make an extra buck or two.

If I own something, it is mine to sell for what I see fit.  Not for someone that wants to buy it to tell me how much I should sell it for.

I was under the impression that people here wanted tohe gov't to stay out of private transactions as much as possible.  Why do we now want them to step in and fix prices?

EDIT: BTW, $2.99 at the credit card only Shell, $3.04 at Wal-Mart and $3.09-$3.19 elsewhere.

[Felonious Monk/Fignozzle]

My wife and I just got back from the Mayberry Wal-Mart, where we filled up 3 vehicles at $2.59/gal.
Spent $147.70 (one has a dual tank).
The usual cheapest place in town is already twenty cents higher than that.  
One of those vehicles (the dual tank one) doesn't get driven everyday, but with the new knowledge I acquired from Steve (sm) the other day re: an Oklahoma Credit Card, I figure that one can be my own personal stockpile for a week or so, and maybe avoid at least a part of the combined Labor Day/Katrina/Oil Company Greed spike.

YeeHaw.
Isn't there an ancient Arabian curse that says "may you live in 'interesting' times?"

[Schuey2002]

At one BP gas station in Atlanta, the owner is charging $5.87 for Regular and $6.07 for Premium gasoline..

[Paddy]

I was under the impression that people here wanted tohe gov't to stay out of private transactions as much as possible.  Why do we now want them to step in and fix prices?

It is the government's duty to break up a monopoly and allow a free market.  There is almost no competition in the oil industry and they can't be allowed to windfall profits gouged during a crisis.  If they won't regulate themselves (and they won't) maybe they need to be nationalized by way of eminent domain, in the public interest.

[grampster]

3.50 a gal in Newaygo County, Mi this afternoon around 3pm.  I don't know what it is now.  (9PM)  Fortunately, I'm still on rehab leave from work, so my 70 mile roundtrip commute is on hold till Sept. 12.  In some ways, to be gouged for gas is a small price to pay to be able to sit in the yard or in the house, have a glass of wine and not be confronted with the disaster than a  million or so of our brother Americans are facing for God knows how long. I'd feel better if a buck a gallon was being directed toward relief efforts, though.
Swmbo and I took the pontoon over to the lakeside tavern for dinner.  We were both quiet and looked at one another and wondered if we were having the same thoughts.  We were.

[garrettwc]

$2.54 a gallon when I left the house this morning. Should have filled up then, but was running late. $3.39 a gallon when I got off work. Took $30 to put half a tank in my little economy car.

[Guest]

It's the same gas that was in the underground tank a few hours before.  How is a big price increase justified?

You have got to be kidding me.

OK, here is a hint. It is going to cost him more money to refill his tank today than it cost yesterday. That means that he charges more as of *now*. Anyone who cannot immediatly grasp this concept does not need to continue commenting on economic issues.

[onions!]

It's the same gas that was in the underground tank a few hours before.  How is a big price increase justified?

You have got to be kidding me.
OK, here is a hint. It is going to cost him more money to refill his tank today than it cost yesterday. That means that he charges more as of *now*. Anyone who cannot immediatly grasp this concept does not need to continue commenting on economic issues.

Now I'm not poking just at you c_yeager but all I have to say is HORSE PUCKEY!

The corner station provides a good example.

7a.m. yesterday it was $3.079/gal
@ noon it was $3.499/gal
@ 2 o'clock it was $3.099
@ 3 o'clock it was(& remains at) $3.199/gallon

Cost him more to fill his tank.Quite likely.Should he make a profit on his product?Of course.Did he get THREE calls from the main office suggesting that he raise,lower,& then raise again his price?Unlikely.

It sure looks to me like the station manager maybe got a little excited(this is the same Shell that jumper $.40 on 9/11).

Anyone who cannot immediately grasp the concept of gouging w/no "excuse" for back up does not need to comment on economic issues.They've missed the point.

[The Rabbi]

I'm with C-Yeager on this.  Anyone unclear how supply, demand, and futures works needs to get an education before posting.

41mag, does your mom know you talk like that?

[onions!]

Rabbi?On tuesday the cost of unleaded regular went up $.21/gallon.That's cost.That's from the J&H Oil rep.He was taking our bulk oil order & BSing.The retail price then went up $.30.O.K.The cost of gas hasn't increased.So what does the jump from $2.99 to $3.49/gal have to do w/supply(it's everywhere up here) & demand(well,we all need it sooner or later but no more than last week)?

[jefnvk]

7a.m. yesterday it was $3.079/gal
@ noon it was $3.499/gal
@ 2 o'clock it was $3.099
@ 3 o'clock it was(& remains at) $3.199/gallon

Once again, their gas, their prices.  You are not entitled to that gas at the price you see fit, simply because you want it.  It is the owner's gas to do with as he pleases.  If you think you could do the public better, buy it from him and sell at $2.50.  My guess is you'll be on here posting how hard it is for a gas station to make ends meet.

Couple that with everytime I turn on the news, I hear about how some experts are telling people that gas may hit $4-5 a gallon, and it is no wonder that people are turnign out in droves to get gas.  Gas that may still be cheaper if everyone in America didn't decide to fill up before it got to $4 a gallon, pretty much ensuring it would.

If the big oil companies are in a price-fixing scheme, which I doubt at least on the level some are suggesting,  then the media and 'experts' are in bed with them, helping them along.