Sig P320 pistols go boom by themselves

[MillCreek]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/04/11/sig-sauer-p320-fires-on-own/

I thought this had been fixed.  I wonder if I should be worried about my M-17. I do keep the safety on.

[dogmush]

I note that despite this "uniquely dangerous design" none of the experts hired to testify against Sig can get the gun to discharge unintentionally in a controlled setting,  or repeatedly.

I tend to think that these guns are indeed having their trigger pulled, but without a list of details li,e what holster and type of carry, it's all speculation  and lawsuits.

I don't routinely carry my M17, but I'm not scared of it when I do run and gun, and I never use the safety. YMMV

[MechAg94]

I note that despite this "uniquely dangerous design" none of the experts hired to testify against Sig can get the gun to discharge unintentionally in a controlled setting,  or repeatedly.

I tend to think that these guns are indeed having their trigger pulled, but without a list of details li,e what holster and type of carry, it's all speculation  and lawsuits.

I don't routinely carry my M17, but I'm not scared of it when I do run and gun, and I never use the safety. YMMV

That is what I have seen also.  I don't know if they are true stories or not, but there are never enough details to make me go blaming Sig. 

[HankB]

. . . none of the experts hired to testify against Sig can get the gun to discharge unintentionally in a controlled setting . . .

If that's the case, the experts would seem to be rather inexpert. In any case, their testimony is not credible.

[Pb]

Correct me if I am wrong, but this is my understanding of what may be happening.

What I have read, is that the safeties are internal, and are deactivated by pulling the trigger.  Apparently, only a tiny rearward movement of the trigger (a few millimeters) is enough to deactivate them.  So, friction of a gun moving in a tight holster might deactivate the safeties.

The striker on these pistols is fully cocked, pulling the trigger only releases them.  In contrast, with a Glock, pulling the trigger is required to finish moving the striker completely to the rear.

The combination of all safeties being deactivated, combined a with a constantly fully cocked striker possibly could lead to an accidental discharge sometimes.

[dogmush]

Correct me if I am wrong, but this is my understanding of what may be happening.

What I have read, is that the safeties are internal, and are deactivated by pulling the trigger.  Apparently, only a tiny rearward movement of the trigger (a few millimeters) is enough to deactivate them.  So, friction of a gun moving in a tight holster might deactivate the safeties.

The striker on these pistols is fully cocked, pulling the trigger only releases them.  In contrast, with a Glock, pulling the trigger is required to finish moving the striker completely to the rear.

The combination of all safeties being deactivated, combined a with a constantly fully cocked striker possibly could lead to an accidental discharge sometimes.

That is the claim.  I have not measured my M17's trigger travel required to push the safety plunger up in the slide far enough to clear the striker.  Maybe I will tonight.  But even if that is the case, the sear would still need to release the striker, or break to drop the striker.  So either there are a lot of broken sears (there are not)or the sear engagement is small enough to drop the striker (would be repeatable, and does not seem to be) or the triggers are getting pulled. If the triggers are getting pulled, all this hand waving about safety disengagement distance and fully cocked strikers is bullshit, because pretty much every gun goes off if you pull the trigger.

I'm not a 320 fanboi by any means.  I like mine, but it's not amazing, and I don't carry it, but until someone comes up with a mechanically plausible explanation for how a 320 just "goes off" while sitting in a holster, I'm going to stick with Occam's Razer, that these 80 folks were finger *expletive deleted*ing their gun, cover garment, or holster, and pulled the trigger.

[Ben]

plausible explanation for how a 320 just "goes off" while sitting in a holster, I'm going to stick with Occam's Razer, that these 80 folks were finger *expletive deleted*ing their gun, cover garment, or holster, and pulled the trigger.

I don't know if there is data, but I am curious on what holsters these "self-firing" guns were in. I'm not an expert by any means, but it seems that for the non-manual safety striker fire guns out there, a correct holster is part of the safety.

[dogmush]

I don't know if there is data, but I am curious on what holsters these "self-firing" guns were in. I'm not an expert by any means, but it seems that for the non-manual safety striker fire guns out there, a correct holster is part of the safety.

Indeed, and I have not seen that data, if it exists.

For example:

Police officer Brittany Hilton said her holstered P320 fired while inside her purse as she walked to her car in Bridge City, Tex. The bullet entered her groin and exited her back just inches from the base of her spine.

Was it in an Uncle Mike's nylon thrown in her purse with all the other *expletive deleted*it that get's thrown in a purse?  Or was it in a kydex holster velcroed to the side of a compartment in a concealed carry specific purse, with nothing else in that compartment?  Big difference in those situations.

[HeroHog]

Remember this?

[HankB]

. . .
For example:
Was it in an Uncle Mike's nylon thrown in her purse with all the other *expletive deleted*it that get's thrown in a purse?  Or was it in a kydex holster velcroed to the side of a compartment in a concealed carry specific purse, with nothing else in that compartment?  Big difference in those situations.

Again, not enough info. I can envision a situation in which a gun in a purse slips partially out of a loose holster, and something else in the purse works its way into the trigger guard. (I think this may be what you were getting at.)

[dogmush]

That is exactly what I'm getting at Hank.

The folks during, and the Washington Post, keep saying their 320's went of without the trigger being pulled.  I am unwilling to accept that without some plausible explanation of how. Not just how the drop safety was disengaged,  but how the sear was dropped.

My suspicion is something pulled the trigger on those guns, either bad holsters, a shirt, *expletive deleted*it in the purse or pocket the gun was in, or the owner themselves.  But so far I see folks claiming something improbable happened,  and not even offering a theory on how it happened.

[MechAg94]

One warm afternoon in May, Dwight Jackson was getting dressed for a visit to his favorite cigar lounge. He slipped his holstered SIG Sauer P320 pistol onto his belt, put on a button-down shirt and leaned across his bed for his wallet. Suddenly, he said, the gun fired, sending a bullet tearing through his right buttock and into his left ankle.

I just saw the first paragraph mentioning this incident.  Not sure if he was carrying around back or not.  This could easily be a shirt or something getting caught in the holster.  Without more information, it does not automatically mean a failure of the gun.

[Ben]

One warm afternoon in May, Dwight Jackson was getting dressed for a visit to his favorite cigar lounge. He slipped his holstered SIG Sauer P320 pistol onto his belt, put on a button-down shirt and leaned across his bed for his wallet. Suddenly, he said, the gun fired, sending a bullet tearing through his right buttock and into his left ankle.

I can't even make sense of this. It sounds like he says he put on an (OWB?) holstered gun, then put on his shirt and did he tuck the shirt in or leave it untucked? Either way, if the gun was already properly holstered, I can't see what the shirt has to do with anything. The "leaned across his bed" seems to be more key than the holster, though I'm not sure how.

[T.O.M.]

Help me out.  I am not very knowledgeable about the P320.  I assume it has a striker system similar to the Glock, in that is has a partially "cocked" striker.  Trigger pull draws the striker to "full cock" before releasing the striker to engage the primer.

If this is accurate, wouldn't the P320's striker "at rest" lack sufficient force to hit the firing pin with enough power to fire the round?  Isn't it similar to a hammer on half-cock?

[Hawkmoon]

Help me out.  I am not very knowledgeable about the P320.  I assume it has a striker system similar to the Glock, in that is has a partially "cocked" striker.  Trigger pull draws the striker to "full cock" before releasing the striker to engage the primer.

If this is accurate, wouldn't the P320's striker "at rest" lack sufficient force to hit the firing pin with enough power to fire the round?  Isn't it similar to a hammer on half-cock?

With Glocks and most other stoker-fired guns, the striker is roughly 50% cocked by the action of the slide, and the trigger takes up the remaining 50%. With P320, the striker is about 90% or 95% (that's my guess -- a lot more than a Glock) cocked by the slide, so the trigger has very little movement before things start to happen.

[dogmush]

The 320 striker is full cocked by the slide, and rests against a sear in the frame.  When the trigger is pulled the sear rotates down and releases the striker.  The trigger pull does not impart any rearward motion to the striker before releasing it.

It's one of the reasons P320 triggers are pretty good out of the box.

[WLJ]

And now this from Sig

SIG SAUER is reminding consumers about the risks associated with the use of light-bearing holsters, which have been involved in a number of alleged unintentional discharge incidents. Due to the large openings in these holster designs around the trigger (necessary for accommodating the bezels of attached weapon lights), fingers or foreign objects may be able to enter these holsters and contact the trigger. This vulnerability may be exacerbated by the use of a light-bearing holster without a compatible weapon light attached.

SIG SAUER Issues Safety Bulletin About the P320 and Certain Light-Bearing Holsters
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/sig-sauer-issues-safety-bulletin-about-the-p320-and-certain-light-bearing-holsters/

[230RN]

As a point of fact, I had a .22 where the striker channel was enough oversized that a goodly blow or a drop on its slide  would allow the striker to pop off the sear by inertia.  I discovered this accidentally and spent a while analyzing and proving what had happened.

It was an admittedly inexpensive (Sterling) gun and rather than piddle with it I disposed of it.

Just mentioning this as a mechanical possibility, where manipulation might just get the sear to "almost" let go until the next manipulation or purse-bumping.

Terry, 230RM

[dogmush]

And now this from Sig

SIG SAUER Issues Safety Bulletin About the P320 and Certain Light-Bearing Holsters
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/sig-sauer-issues-safety-bulletin-about-the-p320-and-certain-light-bearing-holsters/

Wow it's a good thing there aren't a lot of light-bearing holsters floating around for Glocks, M&Ps and other popular striker fired pistols.  If that was the problem, think how many AD's we'd see with all the light bearing holsters.  /sarcasm.

I do tent to think these 320 booms are mishandling by the individuals coupled with confermation bias becasue we are all looking for it now, but that's a retarded statment by Sig.

[MechAg94]

I heard someone on another sight claim Sig has issues with weak or poor quality trigger parts/springs which break or wear out and lead to things happening.  That could lead to problems that wouldn't show up in Sig's testing.  Not sure how that would work exactly. 

We don't hear about the same issues with P365 pistols or other designs. 

There is one video I saw of a Sig P320 going off inside an officer's holster.  I think this has been going around.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSAI_HUZDI0

[Ben]

Wow it's a good thing there aren't a lot of light-bearing holsters floating around for Glocks, M&Ps and other popular striker fired pistols.  If that was the problem, think how many AD's we'd see with all the light bearing holsters.  /sarcasm.

I do tent to think these 320 booms are mishandling by the individuals coupled with confermation bias becasue we are all looking for it now, but that's a retarded statment by Sig.

So I still think it's concerning that so many of these reports come out on just the 320, and maybe it's all user error or confirmation bias or maybe there is actually some issue with the mechanism. But yeah, I agree that Sig's statement is lame, based on, as you say, so many other striker fire pistols in light bearing holsters. If it really was something getting caught in the holster with a gun sans light, it would apply to any striker fire without an additional external safety and we should be seeing a bunch of ADs for G19s just based on population.