US Human Rights Commission on North Korea

[MillCreek]

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/CoIDPRK/Pages/ReportoftheCommissionofInquiryDPRK.aspx

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/02/20/haunting-sketches-show-horror-north-korean-prison-camps/?intcmp=latestnews

I just finished reading the 400+ pages of the UN Human Rights Commission report on North Korea.  With this sort of evidence, I wonder if those of us alive today will in the future be condemned for allowing this to happen.  We fought a major landwar in Europe and Asia 60+ years ago to eradicate this sort of evil from the world.  And now it seems to be happening all over again, and we cannot claim that we did not know about it.  I seriously wonder if it would be a greater crime against humanity to drop a few kiloton warheads here and there in Pyongyang and other key locations than to let the genocide, starvation and death camps against their own people continue.

I would commend reading the actual reports to you.  Amazing.

[Tallpine]

It's not exactly a surprise that NK violates human rights.  It's a feature, not a bug.

So, how about a UN resolution requiring safewords 

[Ron]

I would support an action not unlike the Berlin Airlift. Daily massage airdrops of shelf stable food and even fresh produce. Bury them in food, get the population well fed so they can start fending for themselves.

I would reject any military action against North Korea unless they attack us or their neighbors.

[Boomhauer]

We fought a major landwar in Europe and Asia 60+ years ago to eradicate this sort of evil from the world

Do keep in mind we did not get involved in either theater in a major way until we were attacked by Japan. Yes, we sent supplies to Britain and did some other things but overall we were content to maintain our isolation from the war until that fateful day in December.

I do wonder had the Japanese not attacked us, would we have entered the war? Would Germany have eventually invaded Britain? If Germany had been able to invade Britain, would we have entered the war then? Obviously we would have entered the war had Germany attacked us, but if Germany never went to war against the US, would we have been content to sit at home and let the Nazi murder machine roll on?

But that's really a subject for another thread...

Another factor is that back then, we fought wars to win them. We didn't give two shits about "hearts and minds" or rules of engagement...the only ROE was "march to the sound of guns and kill anyone not dressed like you". I think the half-assed way our politicians make us fight would be disastrous in a conventional war.

Not to mention that as discussed in a previous thread concerning NK, the population is hostile, brainwashed, and would need massive support. Plus then we have to deal with China.

[agricola]

I do wonder had the Japanese not attacked us, would we have entered the war? Would Germany have eventually invaded Britain? If Germany had been able to invade Britain, would we have entered the war then?

I think the answer to those questions are (1) No, (2) No (if they couldnt do it in 1940 then theres no way they could have done it afterwards), and (3) No.

A perhaps more interesting question is would the US have declared war on Germany in December 1941, if Hitler hadnt done everyone a favour by declaring war himself?

[roo_ster]

With this sort of evidence, I wonder if those of us alive today will in the future be condemned for allowing this to happen.

Screw the sanctimonious future prigs where the sun don't shine. 

It is not the responsibility of the civilized to drag the savages out of their pit of $#!+ and ignorance, hose them down, and beat some manners into them any more than it is the responsibility of corn farmers to teach feral hogs to walk on hind legs.  We ought only do that when the barbarians' actions impinge on the civilized and the cost of dragging them into modernity is less than tolerating their troglodytic ways.  As long as the Norks confine their savagery to themselves, let them alone.

People get the gov't they deserve.  The West had to work at it for 2000+ years to fuse Greek, Roman, German, and Christian cultures into something relatively decent.  The Norks have not even started down that path and are nothing more than a continuation of the oriental despotism that has been the reality of its entire history, save the last couple decades in the south of the peninsula.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseon_Dynasty
Oriental Despotism

[Ned Hamford]

North Korean Education: http://imgur.com/gallery/4Mtjl

I have a relative that smuggles bibles into the country and every time I run into him at family events I am surprised to see him still around and then generally disappointed with the lack of daring do in my own life.

Most dangerous thing I've done lately is jay walk across an icy street (after looking both ways and seeing no cars).  Fighting the gov of a dystopian hellhole by teaching literacy and smuggling out photographs... still on the bucket list. 

[RevDisk]

I just finished reading the 400+ pages of the UN Human Rights Commission report on North Korea.  With this sort of evidence, I wonder if those of us alive today will in the future be condemned for allowing this to happen.  We fought a major landwar in Europe and Asia 60+ years ago to eradicate this sort of evil from the world.  And now it seems to be happening all over again, and we cannot claim that we did not know about it.  I seriously wonder if it would be a greater crime against humanity to drop a few kiloton warheads here and there in Pyongyang and other key locations than to let the genocide, starvation and death camps against their own people continue.

I would commend reading the actual reports to you.  Amazing.

I haven't read that report, but from what I understand, it makes the Nazis look like kindergarden teachers. Generations in concentration camps, bred to suffer and starve to death. Gassing or nuking the population would be easier. Smaller scale than say, the Soviet Union's atrocities. But more horrific in detail.

The reason why NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, wants to intervene is because no one wants to pay the price of unification. It'd make the Germany unification look like a sunday picnic. You're talking a commitment of at least 10% of South Korea's GDP for at least a hundred years. Generations of NK's that'd need extensive psychological assistance. There's not enough Korean language shrinks on the planet. It'd swamp SK's medical resources for easily 20 years.

The average North Korean slave-peasant are barely qualified to do personal hygiene and count to a hundred. This is entirely intentional.

It's remarkably like Road to Damascus.

[RevDisk]

We ought only do that when the barbarians' actions impinge on the civilized and the cost of dragging them into modernity is less than tolerating their troglodytic ways.  As long as the Norks confine their savagery to themselves, let them alone.

From report:
67.   The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea used its land, naval and intelligence forces to conduct abductions and arrests. Operations were approved at the level of the Supreme Leader. The vast majority of victims were forcibly disappeared to gain labour and other skills for the State. Some victims were used to further espionage and terrorist activities. Women abducted from Europe, the Middle East and Asia were subjected to forced marriages with men from other countries to prevent liaisons on their part with ethnic Korean women that could result in interracial children. Some of the abducted women have also been subject to sexual exploitation.

Apparently, up to 200,000 folks have been kidnapped by the Norks. Lotta Koreans. But also Japanese, Europeans, Middle Easterns, etc.


Not to mention, they flood the US market with counterfeit US currency and drugs.

[roo_ster]

From report:
67.   The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea used its land, naval and intelligence forces to conduct abductions and arrests. Operations were approved at the level of the Supreme Leader. The vast majority of victims were forcibly disappeared to gain labour and other skills for the State. Some victims were used to further espionage and terrorist activities. Women abducted from Europe, the Middle East and Asia were subjected to forced marriages with men from other countries to prevent liaisons on their part with ethnic Korean women that could result in interracial children. Some of the abducted women have also been subject to sexual exploitation.

Apparently, up to 200,000 folks have been kidnapped by the Norks. Lotta Koreans. But also Japanese, Europeans, Middle Easterns, etc.


Not to mention, they flood the US market with counterfeit US currency and drugs.

We ought only do that when the barbarians' actions impinge on the civilized and the cost of dragging them into modernity is less than tolerating their troglodytic ways.  As long as the Norks confine their savagery to themselves, let them alone.

How much would it cost to beat them into civility?

200K is a buttload of people.  How are they managing this?  Raids into S Korea?  Would that not be an act of war which the South could meet?

As for mucking with our currency, they are amateurs relative to the Fed and Treasury.