Author Topic: US cedes control of ICANN  (Read 2022 times)

Balog

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US cedes control of ICANN
« on: March 24, 2014, 02:14:14 PM »
WSJ article

So, tech savvy folks. Is this a legitimate big deal screwup of the Obama administration or being blown out of proportion?
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RevDisk

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Re: US cedes control of ICANN
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2014, 02:19:09 PM »
So, tech savvy folks. Is this a legitimate big deal screwup of the Obama administration or being blown out of proportion?

Insane to the point of treason. But that's understating the matter. The only comparison I can think of, in terms of potential long term economic damage, this is on par with transferring maybe 1-10% of our nuclear arsenal to Al-Qaeda. About that serious. No, I'm not joking. Think "Second Iraqi War" level of bad idea.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2014, 02:22:15 PM by RevDisk »
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cordex

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Re: US cedes control of ICANN
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2014, 02:25:05 PM »
At least RevDisk is comfortable with it.

roo_ster

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Re: US cedes control of ICANN
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2014, 03:30:26 PM »
IMO, it is of greater import than giving away the Panama Canal.

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roo_ster

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RevDisk

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Re: US cedes control of ICANN
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2014, 03:42:56 PM »
IMO, it is of greater import than giving away the Panama Canal.

Ayep. Same concept, but a thousand times more important. Maybe several million.

I'll write a full essay on it, but long story short... We open ourselves up to the Internet itself being used against us. Not attacks over the internet, but the very foundation of the internet itself being used as a selective weapon. The difference is the same between some yahoo planting an IED and the road itself surreptitiously changing itself as a weapon. Say, removing bridges, or routing you into perfect ambushes, or putting you in a loop with no off ramps. As I said, I'll write an article on it.

If used intelligently by other nation states, it will cost us tens of billions at a minimum. DNS and the entire domain system will be untrustworthy. Unfortunately, ecommerce relies on SSL, which relies on DNS. This one step completely will negate SSL's usefulness whatsoever. Ecommerce is hundreds of billions.

Good news is ecommerce is just the less valuable aspect of this. That's only hundreds of billions. In other words, trinkets and truffles. How much is it worth in war? The ability to determine your enemy's total information flow, and in fact, their entire perception? That is the expensive part, and that is Putin's goal. He wasn't shy about it either, "internationalizing" control of DNS is/was one of his highest priorities.

"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

Balog

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Re: US cedes control of ICANN
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2014, 03:50:18 PM »
I'd love to see that article Rev, please share it on here.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

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If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Ben

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Re: US cedes control of ICANN
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2014, 03:51:17 PM »
If used intelligently by other nation states, it will cost us tens of billions at a minimum. DNS and the entire domain system will be untrustworthy. Unfortunately, ecommerce relies on SSL, which relies on DNS. This one step completely will negate SSL's usefulness whatsoever. Ecommerce is hundreds of billions.

And that's the small potatoes part? Holy crap.  :facepalm:

I look forward to reading your write-up on this.
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Balog

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Re: US cedes control of ICANN
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2014, 04:13:52 PM »
So on the one hand, I trust Rev over most any other internet "expert" simply because I know he's very familiar with this. On the other hand, I am seeing commentary saying that US "oversight" was a mere formality and this will not materially affect the status quo. As I said I don't actually know anything about this, and I trust Rev to be correct. Just repeating the counter arguments I'm seeing, so if nothing else Rev can't specifically address them.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

brimic

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Re: US cedes control of ICANN
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2014, 04:52:42 PM »
So on the one hand, I trust Rev over most any other internet "expert" simply because I know he's very familiar with this. On the other hand, I am seeing commentary saying that US "oversight" was a mere formality and this will not materially affect the status quo. As I said I don't actually know anything about this, and I trust Rev to be correct. Just repeating the counter arguments I'm seeing, so if nothing else Rev can't specifically address them.

I don't understand any of the jargon, but yeah, if Rev says its bad, I take his word for it as well.
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RevDisk

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Re: US cedes control of ICANN
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2014, 04:57:52 PM »

I will add in cautionary words such as could, potentially, etc. I can't tell the future, and will point out the probabilities involved.
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Ben

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Re: US cedes control of ICANN
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2014, 06:05:04 PM »
So on the one hand, I trust Rev over most any other internet "expert" simply because I know he's very familiar with this. On the other hand, I am seeing commentary saying that US "oversight" was a mere formality and this will not materially affect the status quo.

The govt talking heads I've heard give the "pro" argument are stating it from the perspective of, "we're helping to pave the way to get govt out of the Internet so that it is a free and secure flow of information". It's sounding like it's going to be almost exactly the opposite.
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agricola

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Re: US cedes control of ICANN
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2014, 07:01:14 PM »
As bad an idea as it was to stop the Royal Navy policing the seas, and instead allowing other people to have warships. 
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Ned Hamford

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Re: US cedes control of ICANN
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2014, 07:18:11 PM »
Remember how the whistle blowers exposed how we used foreign intelligence groups to spy on our citizens and share the data, and we returned the favor?  Or how the Chinese basically have their own style internet with a lot more monitoring and blocking ability built in?  Why in the world would anyone think this could possibly be a good thing?

I don't trust my own government not to poison my whiskey and commit casual genocide. 

Treason level betrayal of our interests and security. 

I sure as heck don't remember any national vote or even discussion. 
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Phyphor

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Re: US cedes control of ICANN
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2014, 01:33:32 AM »
Hey, let's outsource our police forces / FBI / DEA agencies, as well! Hell, obviously we need to be more "world aware," amirite?
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Balog

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Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Balog

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Re: US cedes control of ICANN
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2014, 06:23:20 PM »
Ayep. Same concept, but a thousand times more important. Maybe several million.

I'll write a full essay on it, but long story short... We open ourselves up to the Internet itself being used against us. Not attacks over the internet, but the very foundation of the internet itself being used as a selective weapon. The difference is the same between some yahoo planting an IED and the road itself surreptitiously changing itself as a weapon. Say, removing bridges, or routing you into perfect ambushes, or putting you in a loop with no off ramps. As I said, I'll write an article on it.

If used intelligently by other nation states, it will cost us tens of billions at a minimum. DNS and the entire domain system will be untrustworthy. Unfortunately, ecommerce relies on SSL, which relies on DNS. This one step completely will negate SSL's usefulness whatsoever. Ecommerce is hundreds of billions.

Good news is ecommerce is just the less valuable aspect of this. That's only hundreds of billions. In other words, trinkets and truffles. How much is it worth in war? The ability to determine your enemy's total information flow, and in fact, their entire perception? That is the expensive part, and that is Putin's goal. He wasn't shy about it either, "internationalizing" control of DNS is/was one of his highest priorities.



Just wondering if you'd had a chance to write that out Rev?
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

RevDisk

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Re: US cedes control of ICANN
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2014, 10:27:52 PM »

ICANN and internationalization! - Part 1


The Boring Background Stuff

The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) is a nonprofit organization that incorporated in Los Angeles in September 1998. Under contract from the US Department of Commerce, ICANN runs a couple databases that maintain the Internet's consistancy. They hold the IP address blocks for IPv4 and IPv6, the assignment of those blocks to various Internet registries, Internet protocol identifiers, generic top level domains (.com, .net, etc), country specific top level domains, autonomous system allocation, time zone database and the list of root name servers. Prior to ICANN, such duties were handled by IANA (now part of ICANN) beginning in 1988. It did all of the same tasks on contract from the US Department of Commerce.

An important aspect to remember is that ICANN serves primarily as a database clearinghouse. Most actual internet technologies and standards are adapted by the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF). Originally, a group of US government funded researchers. Now, it is completely decentralized, informal and doesn't even officially have membership. The Internet Society (ISOC) is an international organization that provides a more formal framework for the IETF, and has its headquarters in US and Switzerland. Its function is to support the IETF logicistcally, provide education, run the .ORG top level domain. Aside from 'owning' the .ORG registry, it's entirely a support organization, rather than existing as an entity providing technical or organizational direction to the Internet as a whole. IETF and ISOC are not under contract with the US government, and are already highly internationalized.

DNS itself started as decentralized text files stored on any machine connected to ARPAnet. Stanford Research Institute collected the information, and transmitted it to any involved or interested parties. Paul Mockapetris designed and wrote the first implementation of DNS in 1978. From 1978 to 1991, it was handled by Stanford Research Institute. From 1991 until 1998, it was run by Network Solutions (an American company). From 1998 until present, it has been run by ICANN.


Historical ICANN Concerns

Since the inception of the domain name system, the US government has asserted ownership and oversight. Until 1991, DNS root name servers were maintained by SRI because no one else wanted to do the work. In 1991, the US government asserted more direct control when they passed responsibility to Network Solutions. Network Solutions did an acceptable job during its tenture, but as the importance grew, there was a strong desire for more competition to selling domain names. Being a for-profit company, owning the root name servers was seen at the time as a very strong commercial advantage. ICANN does not engage in commercial activities and is solely focused on management of their databases.

From its inception, ICANN has handled its responsibilities without technical problems. There have been a number of political issues. There have been issues with VeriSign (US corporation, operator of .COM and .NET top level domains). While VeriSign has handled its technical responsibilities near perfectly, it has overreached its delegated authority several times.


What is DNS?

DNS converts people friendly names such as google.com into machine friendly Internet Protocol numbers, and vice versa.

Sounds simple, and it is. Secondary usage is identifying mail servers and various other small bits of text that's handy for running a domain attached to the internet.



DNS's Shortcomings

DNS was basically designed for systems that more or less trusted each other. Security wasn't even an afterthought. It was designed to scale a bit, and to replace manually maintained text files. It's not all bleak, DNS servers rarely now allow zone transfers so one (usually) can't get a complete map of network or a domain's subdomains.

However, there is a significant problem with cache poisoning. A bad guy pretends to be another DNS server, and gives bad information. DNS doesn't have any authentication or validation mechanisms, so there's no way of knowing the data is bad. The bad guy can either sit in the middle passing information to the intended server (say, harvesting credit cards or passwords), or directly serve content (say malware or malicious code). Long story short, DNS is not designed to resist cache poisoning. Biggest issue is transaction ID bit length, but other issues persist. This is a known issue and while mitigated, cannot be fixed.

Another issue is DNS hijacking, setting up a rogue DNS that intentionally gives false information. Again, DNS has no built in authentication. Many service providers regularly hijack (usually) mistyped or unknown requests. You type in a domain that doesn't exist, your ISP gives you an ad-laden error page instead of just an error message. Bad guys use this for cross-site scripting attacks, which is (vastly oversimplified) a section of a web page abusing permissions for the whole page.

DNS clients can't verify the data they receive from DNS servers. However, DNS servers don't verify their clients either. If an IP asks for DNS information, it sends the data. It doesn't verify that IP is correct, it just sends the data. By spoofing the IP on the DNS request, an attacker can send a 64 byte request to a DNS server, and that DNS server will send a lot more data back to the fake IP address. A gigabyte of requests could end up with 50 gigabytes of answers hitting the victim. This is called "DNS amplification attack".


DNSSec - Eh, nice try...

Domain Name System Security Extensions (DNSSEC) was designed to add authentication to DNS. All DNSSec zones would give their DNS answers back cryptologically signed, proving the data was not altered in transit. The DNS data is not encrypted, however. DNSSec doesn't protect against Denial of Service attacks.

One huge vulnerability that DNSSec introduced is zone enumeration. Nearly all DNS servers will refuse requests for all the information that a DNS server has. This prevents bad guys from trivially mapping out a network or domain. DNSSec requires zone enumeration. The difference is the same as someone looking up someone's phone number, individual by individual, by direct name and being handed a phone book. 

Another issue is that DNSSec relies on centralized chain of trust. Each domain generates their own certificate, hands part of it over to the folks they buy their domain name from, and the domain registrar gives that information to the zone operator designated by ICANN. If ICANN, the zone operator and/or the domain registrar are untrustworthy, DNSSec does not provide authentication. 


DNSv2 - It'll never happen

DNS should be overhauled from scratch, but be backwards compadible. It should be written to protect against false data, man in the middle attacks, denial of service attacks, cache poisoning, etc. It should not allow zone enumeration. The data should be able to be encrypted so it can't be read by unintended parties, as well as cryptologically signed so the contents are known to be accurate. It would also be designed for scalability.

Clients should be minimally verified by a handshake to prove that they're actually requesting the data.

It should also be suspicious. DNS data trustworthiness shouldn't be a choice between "none" and "absolute". It should allow DNS servers and clients to partially trust sources. If a 'trusted' certificate authority is compromised, it's trustability should be able to be lowered but not eliminated to allow a continuity of service while not completely compromising security.

This is unlikely to happen because of the sheer magnitude of existing equipment. Phasing in a new version of DNS would realistically take decades, even if it was specifically designed for ease of transitioning or adaption.


Why does DNS matter?

Because the overwhelming majority of eCommerce on the internet relies on it.

eCommerce is protected by SSL. SSL (Secure Sockets Layer) was actually replaced by Transport Layer Security, but the acronym is often used interchangably. An SSL certificate is two parts. One is public, and given to users when they browse a web page. The other is on the server, and not distributed. This certificate is additionally asigned by a Certificate Authority (CA). The CA does some minimal checking to ensure the requester is who they say and add a bit of their own code testifying that said certificate is legitimate. This certificate is tied to a domain name.

So SSL relies on a certificate and a domain name. Compromise the certificate, you can read the data but not inject trusted data into the stream. If you compromise a computer's DNS system, you can point the requests for the domain name to where ever you wish. Again, this would allow the bad guy to either passively listen in the middle, or allow the bad guy to point it to his own server. If a bad guy points you to his server, he can also present a forged certificate, potentially bypassing that protection completely.
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