Post by: wacki on June 16, 2008, 05:23:10 PM
Quote
The whole idea of change lay at the heart of Obama's decision to go to Chicago, as he wrote in his 1995 memoir, Dreams from My Father:
When classmates in college asked me just what it was that a community organizer did, I couldn't answer them directly. Instead, I'd pronounce on the need for change. Change in the White House, where Reagan and his minions were carrying on their dirty deeds. Change in the Congress, compliant and corrupt. Change in the mood of the country, manic and self-absorbed. Change won't come from the top, I would say. Change will come from a mobilized grass roots.
Substitute "Bush" for "Reagan" and you'll get a pretty good picture of Obama's campaign today, which suggests that Obama has been selling the message of change since his organizer days.
When classmates in college asked me just what it was that a community organizer did, I couldn't answer them directly. Instead, I'd pronounce on the need for change. Change in the White House, where Reagan and his minions were carrying on their dirty deeds. Change in the Congress, compliant and corrupt. Change in the mood of the country, manic and self-absorbed. Change won't come from the top, I would say. Change will come from a mobilized grass roots.
Substitute "Bush" for "Reagan" and you'll get a pretty good picture of Obama's campaign today, which suggests that Obama has been selling the message of change since his organizer days.
Goebbels' Argumentum ad Nauseum anyone? Screaming CHANGE! for 30 years (no matter who is in office) takes some talent.
From Little Green Footballs:
Lots of Che Guerva *cough* communsim/Castro *cough* flags at Obama's campaign office:
More Che from an Ohio Judge for Obama:
And from Armed Polite Society:
Post by: wacki on June 16, 2008, 06:06:58 PM
A quick background on Che:
Quote
The cult of Ernesto Che Guevara is an episode in the moral callousness of our time. Che was a totalitarian. He achieved nothing but disaster. Many of the early leaders of the Cuban Revolution favored a democratic or democratic-socialist direction for the new Cuba. But Che was a mainstay of the hardline pro-Soviet faction, and his faction won. Che presided over the Cuban Revolution's first firing squads. He founded Cuba's "labor camp" systemthe system that was eventually employed to incarcerate gays, dissidents, and AIDS victims. To get himself killed, and to get a lot of other people killed, was central to Che's imagination. In the famous essay in which he issued his ringing call for "two, three, many Vietnams," he also spoke about martyrdom and managed to compose a number of chilling phrases: "Hatred as an element of struggle; unbending hatred for the enemy, which pushes a human being beyond his natural limitations, making him into an effective, violent, selective, and cold-blooded killing machine. This is what our soldiers must become &" and so on. He was killed in Bolivia in 1967, leading a guerrilla movement that had failed to enlist a single Bolivian peasant. And yet he succeeded in inspiring tens of thousands of middle class Latin-Americans to exit the universities and organize guerrilla insurgencies of their own. And these insurgencies likewise accomplished nothing, except to bring about the death of hundreds of thousands, and to set back the cause of Latin-American democracya tragedy on the hugest scale.
And he put Castro in power:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_guevara
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on June 16, 2008, 07:36:51 PM
Post by: MicroBalrog on June 16, 2008, 11:43:05 PM
Post by: wmenorr67 on June 16, 2008, 11:57:08 PM
Post by: Ex-MA Hole on June 17, 2008, 12:14:03 AM
You maybe correct Micro. However, I don't see or hear him calling to have it removed.
....from HIS campaign office.
Post by: MicroBalrog on June 17, 2008, 12:31:49 AM
Post by: agricola on June 17, 2008, 02:34:23 AM
It's in Houston. I bet he didn't even see or know about this flag thing until it came up on TV. It's not like it's the headquarters of his campaign.
True, and if you get a load of college / university students in they will usually bring these things with them. Certainly my alma mater was forever festooned with the items.
Post by: wmenorr67 on June 17, 2008, 02:36:14 AM
Post by: xavier fremboe on June 17, 2008, 03:37:32 AM
http://www.slate.com/id/2107100/
A quick background on Che:
Maybe it's just poorly written, but Ernie Guevara died at least a decade before AIDS emerged.
A quick background on Che:
Quote
The cult of Ernesto Che Guevara is an episode in the moral callousness of our time. Che was a totalitarian. He achieved nothing but disaster. Many of the early leaders of the Cuban Revolution favored a democratic or democratic-socialist direction for the new Cuba. But Che was a mainstay of the hardline pro-Soviet faction, and his faction won. Che presided over the Cuban Revolution's first firing squads. He founded Cuba's "labor camp" system—the system that was eventually employed to incarcerate gays, dissidents, and AIDS victims.
Post by: roo_ster on June 17, 2008, 08:14:51 AM
http://www.slate.com/id/2107100/
A quick background on Che:
A quick background on Che:
Quote
The cult of Ernesto Che Guevara is an episode in the moral callousness of our time. Che was a totalitarian. He achieved nothing but disaster. Many of the early leaders of the Cuban Revolution favored a democratic or democratic-socialist direction for the new Cuba. But Che was a mainstay of the hardline pro-Soviet faction, and his faction won. Che presided over the Cuban Revolution's first firing squads. He founded Cuba's "labor camp" systemthe system that was eventually employed to incarcerate gays, dissidents, and AIDS victims.
Maybe it's just poorly written, but Ernie Guevara died at least a decade before AIDS emerged.Hence, the use of the term, "eventually."
Post by: longeyes on June 17, 2008, 08:27:12 AM
Post by: xavier fremboe on June 17, 2008, 03:28:39 PM
http://www.slate.com/id/2107100/
A quick background on Che:
A quick background on Che:
Quote
The cult of Ernesto Che Guevara is an episode in the moral callousness of our time. Che was a totalitarian. He achieved nothing but disaster. Many of the early leaders of the Cuban Revolution favored a democratic or democratic-socialist direction for the new Cuba. But Che was a mainstay of the hardline pro-Soviet faction, and his faction won. Che presided over the Cuban Revolution's first firing squads. He founded Cuba's "labor camp" system—the system that was eventually employed to incarcerate gays, dissidents, and AIDS victims.
Maybe it's just poorly written, but Ernie Guevara died at least a decade before AIDS emerged.Hence, the use of the term, "eventually."
And hence the 'poorly written' part. One can make a labor camp out of any 'undesireables'.
Post by: agricola on June 17, 2008, 03:34:43 PM
True, but let someone want to hang a Confederate Battle Flag and all hell breaks loose.
Yes, but noone ever said that these people were logical. Nazism/Fascism kills 50 million people and it is utterly reprehensible; Communism kills 100 million and its a fashion statement.
Post by: Oldskoolfan on June 18, 2008, 06:06:21 PM
True, but let someone want to hang a Confederate Battle Flag and all hell breaks loose.
Do you have any examples of this? I have seen numerous Confederate Flags being hung and nobody gives a damn.
Post by: Balog on June 18, 2008, 07:09:09 PM
True, but let someone want to hang a Confederate Battle Flag and all hell breaks loose.
Do you have any examples of this? I have seen numerous Confederate Flags being hung and nobody gives a damn. Hung in the headquarters of a presidential candidate?
Post by: MicroBalrog on June 19, 2008, 12:37:45 AM
True, but let someone want to hang a Confederate Battle Flag and all hell breaks loose.
Do you have any examples of this? I have seen numerous Confederate Flags being hung and nobody gives a damn. Hung in the headquarters of a presidential candidate?
There were not his headquarters. His campaign is not run from Houston.
Post by: Jamisjockey on June 19, 2008, 02:53:01 AM
It's in Houston. I bet he didn't even see or know about this flag thing until it came up on TV. It's not like it's the headquarters of his campaign.
And when he was made aware of it....how did he react?Post by: Finch on June 19, 2008, 11:37:05 AM
It's in Houston. I bet he didn't even see or know about this flag thing until it came up on TV. It's not like it's the headquarters of his campaign.
And when he was made aware of it....how did he react?I gave him a call, he said it was "kewl"
Post by: Balog on June 19, 2008, 11:42:01 AM
True, but let someone want to hang a Confederate Battle Flag and all hell breaks loose.
Do you have any examples of this? I have seen numerous Confederate Flags being hung and nobody gives a damn. Hung in the headquarters of a presidential candidate?
There were not his headquarters. His campaign is not run from Houston.
His "local" headquarters, then. Sheesh, like saying that only the Supreme Court building counts as an example of a courthouse.And there have been any number of southern states that've been forced to remove rebel flags from official places. We're talking about things done in the public realm, not just by private individuals.
Post by: Waitone on June 22, 2008, 03:37:58 AM