I'm starting to consider nursing school

[chaim]

For around a year now I've been working on trying to get into graduate school.  My degree is in psychology and since my grades aren't good enough to get into a doctorate program right off I was going to get a masters in counseling first and then try to get into a doctorate program (with the idea that I could get licensed as a counselor if I didn't get into a doctorate program).

In order to better my application I've been working in a psychiatric hospital since last summer.  We have a very laughable tuition reimbursement program ($750/year, at your supervisor's descretion- and since it comes out of the unit budget MY supervisor won't even OK it for a person going to school for a program SHE asked the employee to do).  Well, I just found out about a great nursing scholarship the hospital has, so I was thinking about that as a possible fall back if grad school can't happen (if I don't get in or if I can't find the funding).

Anyway, I was looking at local nursing programs and noted that they are all "selective" majors (i.e. more selective than the university themselves).  So, since I wanted this as a fall back I looked over the requirements v. my record to be sure it is a possibility.  The program at my undergrad alma mater requires no more than one grade under C in your gen ed coursework (check- in fact the only grade under B is one course in my major that also fulfilled a gen ed) and no more than one grade under C in the required pre-nursing coursework (all the non-nursing courses the major requires that I have taken I have As and Bs).  

Anyway, that experience of looking at my specific record in specific coursework got me to thinking.  I have a 4.0 history GPA (15 credits including 2 upper division courses), I have a 3.5 science GPA, I did well in business and economics, my overall GPA is an OK 3.0, but my GPA in my major is, umm, only about a C+ (I didn't add it up but I'd guess its over 2.5 but under 2.75).  There is no way I have any hope of getting into a psychology Ph.D. or Psy.D. program, even if I get a 4.0 in my masters program.

If you stop at a masters and want to work in mental health you are much better off with social work than counseling.  More jobs, more money, more flexibility.

However, I was already looking at nursing as a fallback.  A nurse with an associate degree will make more money than a masters level social worker.  If I did nursing and then got a masters and became a psychiatric nurse practitioner I could do psychotherapy like a psychologist, counselor or social worker, I could prescribe medications in most states (including MD), and I would make a lot more money than a social worker or counselor.  The only drawback is that I would always have to work under the supervision of (or at least alongside) a psychiatrist if I wanted to prescribe (as a therapist a masters level psych nurse can even do private practice).  I would also be less likely to be able to be in charge of a clinic/unit/or treatment center.  It isn't as independent a field as social work, counseling or psychology.  However, they can do most of the same work (including private practice as a therapist), and they make better money than all but the doctorate level psychologist (with a masters the nursing income is similar to the psychologist w/ a doctorate).  

So anyway, I could go to nursing school, still work in the field I want to work, make more money than I otherwise could, go to grad school for psych nursing if I did well in nursing school and still do most of the work of the other professionals in the field while making more money than most of the other professionals in the field.  So, I'm starting to think that nursing really does make a lot of sense.  

Any nurses, or others, on this board who may have some feedback on the idea?

[brimic]

Nursing is a good gig and will be for the forseeable future if its somethig you like to do. my sister makes $60,000+ working from Friday through Sundays at a nursing home as a RN, with the rest of the week off. I myself am not the type who would want to do that type of work though.

[Guest]

It may be different in your area, but a 3.5 GPA in prerequisite classes wouldnt even get you on the alternate list in nursing schools around here. I got accepted (as an alternate) with a 3.7 and I had the lowest average in my class.

The 2-year associate programs can aslo be quite difficult, 10 percent of my class didnt make it through the first quarter (remember these are people with a 3.8+ GPA) and even more (including myself) didnt get through the 2nd quarter. I think a lot of the problem was the time that was required. It was nearly impossible for a person to work full-time while attending the program (that was my problem). To give you an idea, most of the people who left the program are now on the honor roll in their new non-nursing programs. Its one of those things that you are either "right" for or you arent. It isnt really about being "smart" or "good in school" everyone in my program was a brilliant student. Most of the people who go into nursing because "its a good job" are neither successfull or happy. If it is something that you WANT to do, then go for it. If it is something that you think you CAN do because you want a job, then it isnt likely to work out. The easy way to figure this out is to ask yourself one question: "Would you do this job for $10 an hour?" If the answere is "no" your better off trying something else.

Yes, you can make a whole lot of money without a whole lot of school. On the other hand, I will be done with my business degree in two more years, and will make the same money if not more, and the chances of me having to change a grown man's diaper and get spit on my toothless bums with AIDs is exponentially lower, and I will likely never have to work a years worth of 16 hour graveyard shifts.

[Antibubba]

Are you allowed to tuck your payim under the little white cap?  

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

I have, among other degrees, a BSN from U.T.  I worked in a neurooncology practice for several years until the practice closed due to reimbursement problems; one doc retired early, the other works exclusively in-house ER duty and has no office practice.

I enjoyed it; I loved the patients, learned a lot, and had opportunities I'd never see elsewhere.

Having said that, the school I was in was exceptionally prejudiced against male students. 30% of those who started were male; 3% of the males were there at the end. We had about a 60% retention rate in that 60% who started in my group eventually graduated. That percentage was astoundingly high. Yes, you can forget about any meaningful full-time work/income while in school.  Your time is going to be spent in labs, clinicals, studying, community service required class projects and the like.  It's grueling for a reason, they'll tell you.  Right or wrong, it can be a very rewarding career field.

I don't see many of he folks I went to school with. I do hear that about half are actually still working in the field in some capacity.
I went back to IT after about 8 years in the career path.

Regards,
Rabbit.

[chaim]

If it is something that you WANT to do, then go for it. If it is something that you think you CAN do because you want a job, then it isnt likely to work out. The easy way to figure this out is to ask yourself one question: "Would you do this job for $10 an hour?"

Well, it isn't just because I can, even though it isn't my first choice.  My first choice would be a Ph.D. in psychology but that just isn't realistic (many clinical psych Ph.D. programs are harder to get into than med school and most are at least as difficult).  Outside psych my grades are very good, in psych only fair.  Nuring however is something that interests me (it is one of three areas- psychology, teaching and nursing- that have most strongly interested me since the Army didn't work out for me, that's 16-17 years).  Especially psych nursing where at the MSN level I'd be able to do about 85-90% of what a psychologist could do and about 100% of the duties of social work that interest me (therapy), plus extra duties that interest me (esp. prescription privileges).  Outside psych nursing both pediatric nurse practitioner and anesthesiology (sp?) interest me (at least enough to try to find out if they are areas I'd like to work).  As an RN alone I'm not sure how interested I'd be (I wouldn't mind the nursing duties so much as the lack of autonomy and the lack of ability to do therapy should I choose psych), but to continue on to an MSN would very much interest me.

As for the second half, that is kind of what I do.  I am a "mental health worker" at a local psychiatric hospital, basically a nurses aide without certification.  I am part of the nursing staff and work under the nurses.  The nurses give us all the grunt work of their position that they can push off on us legally.  I've changed diapers on my share of 80 year old men and women (you haven't lived until you've cleaned a diaper on a 75 year old Alzheimers patient who is in great physical condition and is combative, ick), I've cleaned feces and pee from seclusion rooms on the psychotic disorders and neuropsych unit, I now work exclusively on the eating disorders unit where we fairly regularly have to help clean a patient's vomit after they decide to purge.  I take vitals, talk patients down from dissociative states and suicidal states, restrain violent patients, clean all kinds of messes, get spit at, have "things" thrown at me, get hit and kicked, act as 'body guard' for phelbotomists (sp?), doctors and therapists at times, do rounds, do admissions paperwork, have to perform CPR as necessary, monitor patients in general, help with ADLs, escort patients to the ER (we are psych only), and I'm the first to hear it if a patient has a complaint.  They may train me to do EKGs (if we can figure out if I can do that legally without being a CNA).  We also work more than our share of mandation double shifts when someone calls in or our boss doesn't schedule enough people.  For all that I make around $12/hr.  Generally I like my job (sometimes I love it).

Is nursing my first choice?  Not really, but it is an attractive alternative (and only partially for the finances so I wasn't sure if I should even mention that).  Is it something I think I'd enjoy?  Yes.  Do I think I have the temperment for it?  I think so, and so do many of the nurses at work who have been pushing me to go that way instead of becoming a therapist for many months now.  Will nursing allow me to do about 90% or more of the work I do want to do?  Yes, if I continue on to an MSN, and without it is one of the two best alternatives (nursing is probably the best followed by teaching special education, and I think I'd be a better nurse than teacher).
 

The 2-year associate programs can aslo be quite difficult, 10 percent of my class didnt make it through the first quarter (remember these are people with a 3.8+ GPA) and even more (including myself) didnt get through the 2nd quarter. I think a lot of the problem was the time that was required.

Having said that, the school I was in was exceptionally prejudiced against male students. 30% of those who started were male; 3% of the males were there at the end. We had about a 60% retention rate in that 60% who started in my group eventually graduated. That percentage was astoundingly high. Yes, you can forget about any meaningful full-time work/income while in school.  Your time is going to be spent in labs, clinicals, studying, community service required class projects and the like.

I have no illusions about the workload.  I know it is tough.  Right now I work with many nurses some of whom I'm pretty close with.  Outside work I've been friends with many nurses over the years.  I know it isn't easy and it is a lot of work.  I know that unless I manage to find a program that allows the clinicals to be done part-time (yeah right) I won't be able to work full-time while in school.  Actually, one of the things about the scholarship I've heard about through work is that it allows you a full-time income while working part-time, or a decent part-time income while working 1 shift (12hrs work=20 hrs pay, 24hrs work=40hrs pay +benes).

Whichever way I choose (nursing school or graduate school in counseling or social work) I figure it will be a lot of work.  Masters programs in counseling or social work aren't exactly light on the workload front themselves (achedemic coursework, practicums, clinical observation, internships, and possibly thesis research and writing).  The only advantage on that front that grad school would have is the ability to do it part-time (though 6 credits of graduate coursework may not be that much easier than a full-load in nursing school).

As for the anti-male bias at the one school, I guess that is something I'll look out for.  There are a few male nurses at my hospital, I'll ask them where they'd suggest locally (I'm thinking about 2 or 3 community colleges, JHU, UMD-Baltimore, UMBC, or Towson University).

[MillCreek]

Chaim, I am familiar with distance learning, and I think you should give some thought to the distance learning program at Excelsior: www.excelsior.edu.  I am familiar with this program, and it sounds like just the ticket for someone in your position.  The only caution is that a few states do not accept Excelsior for licensure, so you would have to check with the nursing board in any state you wish to practice to make sure that Excelsior is acceptable to them.