Steve Jobs and the Left's double standard

[DustinD]

Job's personality and actions were well known in geek cultures before his death. People on the various computer forums would talk about him at length.

Triumph of the Nerds: Impressing Their Friends. 1996 Documentary available here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFL9IyJ_qHk and

The Pirates of Silicon Valley http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80zFQ57RbdM&feature=relat

Both tell quite a bit about jobs and they way he and others acted. You can read various opinions and facts about those videos online.

[AJ Dual]

I'd suppose that's what the author thought, but to me it's a real stretch.  It's like saying conservatives embrace Chinese communism because they shop at wal mart.  To get there you have to assume shopping at Walmart is something conservatives do, and that shopping at Walmart means giving Chinese communism a pass, since almost all of walmarts product is supplied by Chinese communists.

Not sure I see the logic in this article anymore than I see it in the Walmart example, ie, not at all.

Grampster already gave you the answer.  Although ignoring any information that doesn't fit the narrative isn't uncommon for the Left either.

The point about the Left not saying anything about Jobs is just that.  They don't say anything.  Much of what the Left does not say about certain things is as damning and is as revelatory of their hypocricy as if they had screeched it from the mountain top.

[Monkeyleg]

I'd suppose that's what the author thought, but to me it's a real stretch.  It's like saying conservatives embrace Chinese communism because they shop at wal mart.  To get there you have to assume shopping at Walmart is something conservatives do, and that shopping at Walmart means giving Chinese communism a pass, since almost all of walmarts product is supplied by Chinese communists.

DeSelby, sometimes I think you just take contrarian positions for the sake of arguing them.

You certainly must know that WalMart is the target of much of the left's wrath, and for a whole variety of reasons: they don't pay their people enough, they sell Chinese made goods (although the left seems to have no problem with foreign cars), and they're just too big. Apple made a 4th quarter profit last year of $46.3 billion, compared to $9.25 billion for Exxon Mobil, $906 million for the despised Halliburton, $3.74 billion for WalMart in the 1st quarter of 2012, and $2 billion for the despicable Bank of America's 4th quarter 2011 results, but Apple isn't too big.

Ever hear the left complain about Apple? Has the MSM ever held the company up as an example of corporate greed?

The unsaid is just as important as what is said.

[AJ Dual]

I will concede the point there was a minor stink over working conditions at Foxconn and other subs of Apple... but it was half-hearted and nowhere near the drumbeat it would have been if it was one of those "other" industries. The "exception that proves the rule" if there ever was one.

But of all your examples Monkeyleg, I think Walmart is the most apt. If they changed nothing about their business practices, worker pay, financial strategies, where they place stores, where the product is produced, or how hard they squeeze their suppliers, etc.... (and were HQ'ed somewhere other than Arkansas) but instead sold a bunch of "hip" stuff you normally find at trendy places, and you didn't ever see land-whales in scooters there, the entire anti-Walmart movement would never have happened.

I swear, a carefully constructed campaign that got the latest Apple products publicly into the hands of blue collar workers, people at Tea Party rallies, NRA functionaries, and red-state fundamental religious types could bring the company to it's knees in a year. 

[De Selby]

Monkeyleg, check this out:  http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/foxconn_technology/index.html

There're criticisms of Jobs and Apple's labor practices by the NYT all the way back to 2006.  Apparently the leftist MSM has had bad things to say about apple just as much as Walmart.

[Balog]

Factually incorrect. The fact that a few minor stories have appaeared over the years does not show that the same level of hostility has been displayed. Anymore than the fact Dowd wrote a column criticizing Obama proves the media treats him just as badly as they did Bush or Palin.

[longeyes]

My brain tried to eat its way out after reading those two lines. Thankfully, I hit it with an O'Reilly book and it calmed right down.

Well, better than your mind devouring itself I'd say.

What I wrote is what Jobs himself said, nothing more.  He was obsessed with making Apple products creative tools and rendering them in the simplest, most "Zen-like" form factors.  

[longeyes]

Apple is associated with creativity and communication.  If that is only the province of "the Left," we are in serious trouble.  I don't think the old dichotomies really work in this context.

Some people adopt the Mac because it's "cool," others because they preferred its simplicity and comparative ease of use or esthetics.  I was a heavy IBM-DOS-Windows user for 20 years before buying a Mac system for video editing and later shifted to Mac laptops.  "Cool" had nothing to do with it.  Maybe I just got tired, as I aged, of computers built for engineers rather than ordinary consumers, and maybe, more to the point, I got tired of Windows' security issues.

[Monkeyleg]

Apple is associated with creativity and communication.  If that is only the province of "the Left," we are in serious trouble.  I don't think the old dichotomies really work in this context.

Why are some people missing the point here? This isn't about whether Apple products are good or bad, or even about Apple products at all. It's about how certain businesses and businessmen are given a pass on their operations and wealth by the left, and others are pilloried for "transgressions" that often are less objectionable by the standards the left uses to judge.

[AJ Dual]

Why are some people missing the point here? This isn't about whether Apple products are good or bad, or even about Apple products at all. It's about how certain businesses and businessmen are given a pass on their operations and wealth by the left, and others are pilloried for "transgressions" that often are less objectionable by the standards the left uses to judge.

People are too used to Apple love/hate threads and online debate, it's reflexive I think.

[longeyes]

Why are some people missing the point here? This isn't about whether Apple products are good or bad, or even about Apple products at all. It's about how certain businesses and businessmen are given a pass on their operations and wealth by the left, and others are pilloried for "transgressions" that often are less objectionable by the standards the left uses to judge.

Certain industries fit the playbook of the progressives better than others. And they are more aware of the impact of those industries. Petroleum is one obvious example.

[Perd Hapley]

Didn't we just have a thread about "cool" people and "cool" companies getting passes from the left?

[brimic]

When I see unions protesting the proposed opening of an Apple Store, I'll finally believe that Apple has reached the same level of ire as Walmart from the left.

One of the biggest differences is that Walmart is shopped by a class of people who the left doesn't like to associate with if they don't have to, and Apple products tend to be status symbols of the left.

[De Selby]

When I see unions protesting the proposed opening of an Apple Store, I'll finally believe that Apple has reached the same level of ire as Walmart from the left.

One of the biggest differences is that Walmart is shopped by a class of people who the left doesn't like to associate with if they don't have to, and Apple products tend to be status symbols of the left.

What union would protest?  Seriously, are there any retail worker unions whose members would fit that store?

Even on this thread we've got members saying "huh?  Who said jobs was a symbol of leftists?", yet I am supposed to take as obvious that he is.

Quoting MSM criticism of apple wasn't enough.  Apparently there needs to be some higher level of attention than the new York times to qualify as getting criticism from the left and the MSM.

[Monkeyleg]

Oh, if there weren't a banschwerk.

[brimic]

What union would protest?  Seriously, are there any retail worker unions whose members would fit that store?

The big one.
http://scfl.org/uln.php?ulnid=502
http://www.accessnorthga.com/detail-pf.php?n=125335

Dimwits of the left will protest their own jobs, access to low cost groceries, but will leave chinese made toys alone.

[RocketMan]

Find a substantial number of stories that show the Left condemning Jobs and Apple, De Selby, and then maybe we will take your argument seriously.

[Perd Hapley]

The big one.
http://scfl.org/uln.php?ulnid=502
http://www.accessnorthga.com/detail-pf.php?n=125335

Dimwits of the left will protest their own jobs, access to low cost groceries, but will leave chinese made toys alone.

I think he's asking what union would oppose Apple, since tech workers are, presumably, not organized.

[Balog]

Hey De Selby, if I can dig up a 10 year old story from the NYT that portrays Bush positively, does that mean the MSM had a generally positive attitude toward Bush?

[De Selby]

I think he's asking what union would oppose Apple, since tech workers are, presumably, not organized.

Yep, that was the point I was making.

Balog, I linked an index of articles four pages long or so, with 53 separate articles on Foxconn.   That goes from 2006 to today.  You can find criticisms of apple and allegations that it is linked to worker suicides throughout the index.

[wuluf]

The Left hates Big Oil and rails about their unfair and "windfall profits". Apple operates at a much higher net profit percentage than Exxon, but gets a pass from the left.  Claro?

[cordex]

The Left hates Big Oil and rails about their unfair and "windfall profits". Apple operates at a much higher net profit percentage than Exxon, but gets a pass from the left.  Claro?

I read it more that the left hates Big Oil for environmental reasons.  "Windfall profits" are a technique the left can use to convince people in the center about how "unfair" oil companies are and how John and Jane Q. Public are being exploited by an evil  CORPORATION .

Even on this thread we've got members saying "huh?  Who said jobs was a symbol of leftists?", yet I am supposed to take as obvious that he is.

That may be technically true but it is only plural because I joined in.   

And the thing is, I do understand why people would say that Apple is a symbol of the left.  I personally make that association.  Athough not exclusively the domain of the left, it certainly has a larger than average penetration into the Democrat-supporting hipster crowd.

[Monkeyleg]

I read it more that the left hates Big Oil for environmental reasons.  "Windfall profits" are a technique the left can use to convince people in the center about how "unfair" oil companies are and how John and Jane Q. Public are being exploited by an evil   CORPORATION .

It's not just "Big Oil". It's Big Pharmaceuticals, Big Insurance, Big Banks and anything else that the left has issues with. Profits have much to do with which companies are despised, which is why it's fascinating to see companies with huge profits such as Apple go unassailed by the left.

The 1%'ers and millionaires and billionaires are targets of the left's wrath, but George Soros, Warren Buffet, nearly all of Hollywood and many others in those income brackets are exempt.

The exempt aren't being hailed as heroes, they're just not mentioned in the rants. Mitt Romney is despised by many on the left for his wealth, but John Kennedy and brothers Robert and Ted got a pass, even though they inherited their wealth. John Kerry got a pass, even though his wealth wasn't earned, either; he married into it, and his wife inherited it. John Edwards never took flak from the left for his wealth, nor has Al Gore, yet both have become wealthy through means that are more than just a bit sleazy. If Gore or Edwards were conservatives, they'd be targets of all sorts of leftist wrath.

[ronnyreagan]

Profits have much to do with which companies are despised, which is why it's fascinating to see companies with huge profits such as Apple go unassailed by the left.
The 1%'ers and millionaires and billionaires are targets of the left's wrath, but George Soros, Warren Buffet, nearly all of Hollywood and many others in those income brackets are exempt.
 If Gore or Edwards were conservatives, they'd be targets of all sorts of leftist wrath.

You seem to be missing your own point. The left doesn't like the right. It's not about being rich - if it were they would hate George Soros, Warren Buffet, and whatever other boogeymen the right has nightmares about. The left also doesn't like companies that (they believe) are destroying the planet. If it was about the huge profits they would hate Apple.

The exceptions are far too abundant to prove the rule, they just prove it wrong.

[Monkeyleg]

ronnyreagan, I'm not missing my point, but you're not entirely getting it, either. It's not entirely about being right or left. George Soros, Buffet, Hollywood, Gore, Edwards and the hundreds of thousands of other "one percenters" who get a pass from the left do something the left thinks is laudable, and they get a pass on their sins.

An example is Buffet giving Obama the "Buffet Rule" to play before audiences. Would Buffet have to pay more in taxes if his "rule" were enacted into law? Sure. But the deals he cut with Obama on the stimulus package more than make up for any additional taxes he might have to pay. If Obama isn't re-elected, and the Buffet rule is never adopted, then Buffet keeps his additional taxes, he gets adulation from the left and exemption for his sins, and everybody is happy.

Ditto George Soros, Hollywood and the rest. The do a little something that doesn't cost them too much, and they get a pass on being evil millionaires and billionaires. They become part of the 99%.

Liberalism is about good intentions, not good results. If a one percenter does a liberal deed with good intentions, he's forgiven his real trespasses.