Private Art Collectors Beware

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

A lil background on the scale of the grave robbing and the gov involment. Since the feds did it surely it must be an atrocity
http://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/native16.htm

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[RocketMan]

That was an amazing leap to an unjustified conclusion there, C&SD, with the 'grave robbing' thing.  There was no mention of it in either article, with next to no description of the artifacts he had collected.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Less a leap than I've been following the series of arrests for a couple years. I doubt the gentleman was robbing graves himself.  I can virtually guarantee that with a collection like that size some of it is not kosher. And recovery of stolen or illegal contraband is a legitimate use of a warrant

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[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Here's more including s statement from the gentleman.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/03/fbi-seizes-thousands-artifacts-at-indiana-property/

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[roo_ster]

Which graves were those? Can I buy your kins property up to and including bones on the net?

Hear that?  That is the sound of me & my sort not whining.

http://www.ancientresource.com/lots/medieval_crusades/viking-anglo-saxon-coins.html
http://www.ancientresource.com/lots/medieval_crusades/viking_anglosaxon_norman.html
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=saxon+artifact
http://www.ebay.com/itm/A11-VIKING-SAXON-Bronze-BEAST-Mount-Fitting-Metal-Detected-Artefact-Dug-Up-/141243348502?pt=UK_Antiques_Other_RL&hash=item20e2c27616
http://www.timelineauctions.com/lot/grave-assemblage-short-sword-and-replica-shield-boss-and-axe/1797/
http://archaeology.about.com/od/ukdigs/

I guess us white folks just are not as pissy and whiny as your sort, CSD.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Does anyone know if the Feds had a warrant here?

[Balog]

Does anyone know if the Feds had a warrant here?

Asking that question makes you a racist, apparently.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

There is a news report that says warrant hss not been unsealed or made available yet to the press

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[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I guess it could be called malicious, or at least impolite, when you ascribe racism to people, without any evidence thereof. When they talk about fourth amendment concerns, and never mention race; and you just jump straight into projecting your own racial issues onto them.

Stay classy.

But, I did go back to look at your first post, and you did explain a bit more about how the raid might have been justified, before (not after) you got to race-baiting, which seems to be your thing, lately. So there's that.

Hear that?  That is the sound of me & my sort not whining.

http://www.ancientresource.com/lots/medieval_crusades/viking-anglo-saxon-coins.html
http://www.ancientresource.com/lots/medieval_crusades/viking_anglosaxon_norman.html
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=saxon+artifact
http://www.ebay.com/itm/A11-VIKING-SAXON-Bronze-BEAST-Mount-Fitting-Metal-Detected-Artefact-Dug-Up-/141243348502?pt=UK_Antiques_Other_RL&hash=item20e2c27616
http://www.timelineauctions.com/lot/grave-assemblage-short-sword-and-replica-shield-boss-and-axe/1797/
http://archaeology.about.com/od/ukdigs/

I guess us white folks just are not as pissy and whiny as your sort, CSD.

Were there graves dug up with heavy equipment to get those? Is there a super secret wfo password to get to the bones skulls and other good stuff? Your link just had coins swords and such. What government endorsed and financed the robbing of 10's of thousands of graves?

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[roo_ster]

Were there graves dug up with heavy equipment to get those? Is there a super secret wfo password to get to the bones skulls and other good stuff? Your link just had coins swords and such. What government endorsed and financed the robbing of 10's of thousands of graves?

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Do some of your own heavy lifting, Kemosabe.  I took two minutes to google and found not only artifacts, but artifacts from burial sites for sale.  If'n you want an exact match, find it.  This far I have seen lots of euro artifacts for sale and no whining about it.

Knowing human nature as I do, I would not be surprised if there is a black market in these items in addition to the out in the open ones I showed you.  BFD.

[Scout26]

is it your belief this search is warrant less?
or do you believe he must have committed a crime to get a warrant?

In the story it implies that there is/was no warrant at the time the Feebies came aknockin'.

And yes, there's that whole 4th Amendment thing which KD5NRH posted.  Some of us are still provincial enough to believe in that 231 year old document and those that drafted and approved it used very precise language to mean what they say and say what they mean.



And you can climb down off your high-*expletive deleted*ing-horse.  There isn't a civilization yet that hasn't yet had it graves dug up and artifacts put on display in a museum and/or held in private collections.   

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I did look for bones and skulls and such didn't find any. And surely didn't find a gov initiated troop implemented raid on 10's of thousands of graves. And the story of the Eskimos is a special bit of Americana

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[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Could you show where it implues no warrant?

Did you miss the references to the specific laws we have against it? And the fact that folks were commiting trespass to rob the graves? Or is trespass no longer a valid law in the new world?

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[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Asking that question makes you a racist, apparently.

Actually, I was a li'l worried asking that question might make me a jackbooted police-abuse apologist.

There is a news report that says warrant hss not been unsealed or made available yet to the press

So then, yes, there is a warrant?  Cite?

In the story it implies that there is/was no warrant at the time the Feebies came aknockin'.

And yes, there's that whole 4th Amendment thing which KD5NRH posted.  Some of us are still provincial enough to believe in that 231 year old document and those that drafted and approved it used very precise language to mean what they say and say what they mean.

Huh?  The original article is utterly silent on the subject of warrants and the 4th amendment.  I'm wondering if there's any basis to the claims that this seizure is in violation of the constitution.  So far I haven't seen any.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

And this article has several perspectives on this event snd one line in particular that does not work with your preferred narrative. Last paragraph. http://art-crime.blogspot.com/2014/04/fbi-reportedly-seizes-private.html?m=1

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[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Wait, wut?  The dude was working with the FBI to return the artifacts?

Is that for real?

[cordex]

Were there graves dug up with heavy equipment to get those? Is there a super secret wfo password to get to the bones skulls and other good stuff? Your link just had coins swords and such. What government endorsed and financed the robbing of 10's of thousands of graves?

I can almost guarantee much were dug up with heavy equipment.  Heavy equipment has been used in excavation of antiquities since its invention.  Not sure what government-endorsed grave robbing has to do with this particular case, though.

I did look for bones and skulls and such didn't find any. And surely didn't find a gov initiated troop implemented raid on 10's of thousands of graves. And the story of the Eskimos is a special bit of Americana

Did this guy supposedly have stolen bones or boiled Eskimo corpses in his collection?  If not, I really don't see the difference between the collection he has and the artifacts taken from Viking (or Roman, or Greek, or Spanish, or German, etc.) graves.  If so, fine, our society doesn't look to kindly at decorating with human remains unless the decorator has a doctorate.

Also, I guarantee that when our society collapses, whatever society rises to power next will dig up our graves too.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I am incredulous that anyone, much less someone who was a leo, could fantasize that the fbi would seize anything without a warrant.

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[Scout26]

On occasion the FBI had been known to step on their cranks.  Last I checked they are not 100% in court, and have had cases thrown out for defective warrants, improper questioning, etc.   They are made up of human beings that are are far from perfect.

And yes, I can picture some junior G-man going out to talk the gentlemen,then things going all pear shaped, suddenly they have 50+ agents crawling all over with all the toys parked and set-up in the driveway and finally the SAC shows up he asks, "So we got a good warrant for all this?"  And then a whole bunch of aholes slam shut.  

Again, as citizens our job is to insure that those we entrust with enforcing the laws are operating under the constraints we place on them.  So asking that question "Did you adhere to the 4th Amendment protections?"  is pretty damn important, and not one to be simply assumed.

[freakazoid]

They are made up of human beings there they are far from perfect.

Ain't that the truth.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

On occasion the FBI had been known to step on their cranks.  Last I checked they are not 100% in court, and have had cases thrown out for defective warrants, improper questioning, etc.   They are made up of human beings there are far from perfect.

And yes, I can picture some junior G-man going out to talk the gentlemen,then things going all pear shaped, suddenly they have 50+ agents crawling all over with all the toys parked and set-up in the driveway and finally the SAC finally shows up he asks, "So we got a good warrant for all this?"  And then a whole bunch of aholes slam shut. 

Again, as citizens our job is to insure that those we entrust with enforcing the laws are operating under the constraints we place on them.  So asking that question "Did you adhere to the 4th Amendment protections?"  is pretty damn important, and not one to be simply assumed.

you imagine that 100 agents managed to over look a warrant?  could you give an example of that type of occurrence? most agents i know go to law school.
we will overlook the pesky reality's of this case for the sake of indulging your theory.

[freakazoid]

you imagine that 100 agents managed to over look a warrant?  could you give an example of that type of occurrence? most agents i know go to law school.
we will overlook the pesky reality's of this case for the sake of indulging your theory.

Obama taught constitutional law...

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Obama taught constitutional law...

touche

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I thought we'd already established that they had a warrant.  Yes?

[cordex]

I thought we'd already established that they had a warrant.  Yes?

Even if we hadn't, it seems to be a reasonable assumption.