Copyright

[Nick1911]

Lets say I buy an MP3 on amazon.

Tomorrow, the disk I put it on crashes.

I download it from an illegitimate source.

Is this action legal as I still am a copyright holder for that work?

[Brad Johnson]

The right to use a file you've paid for and your choice of source are two different issues.  That's like asking if it's okay to break into the bank to get your stuff out of the vault. 

Having the file is fine, presuming it's the exact same version of the file you had before.  Getting it from less-than-reputable sources is something to be avoided.

Brad

[AZRedhawk44]

Lets say I buy an MP3 on amazon.

Tomorrow, the disk I put it on crashes.

I download it from an illegitimate source.

Is this action legal as I still am a copyright holder for that work?

It's certainly within MORAL boundaries of acceptable.  With the RIAA/MPAA pushing the legality window as they do, it's hard to say if it's legal.  It would probably depend on if it was the EXACT same MP3 file.  You know how some bands release 5 different copies of the same song... the single that plays on the radio, the slightly different mix on the album, a remixed/remastered version on a Greatest Hits album, a "live at [insert stadium here]" version, and so on.

If you have the purchase receipt (perhaps a confirmation email in your inbox) I'd say it's defensible.

[Nick1911]

The right to use a file you've paid for and your choice of source are two different issues.  That's like asking if it's okay to break into the bank to get your stuff out of the vault. 

Brad

I disagree with your analogy.  One is victimless, one isn't.

[41magsnub]

I realize this is a hypothetical, but Amazon will let you download the file again :) - at least they do with videos.

[Brad Johnson]

I realize this is a hypothetical, but Amazon will let you download the file again :) - at least they do with videos.

Guess it stands to reason, if you downloaded it using your account then there's a record of it within their system.  No reason for you not to be able to duplicate the file download.

[makattak]

I disagree with your analogy.  One is victimless, one isn't.

If you can break into the bank without harming anyone or anything, it is just as victimless.

Say, like a catburgler through the skylight.

(Not supporting nor detracting from the argument, but pointing out it can be victimless, too.)

[Devonai]

If I was an a-hole lawyer I would say that you could have made a legal backup copy before your drive pooped itself.  That said, all vendors should allow multiple downloads to the same IP address at no additional charge.

[AZRedhawk44]

If I was an a-hole lawyer I would say that you could have made a legal backup copy before your drive pooped itself.  That said, all vendors should allow multiple downloads to the same IP address at no additional charge.

That assumes:
-You don't change ISP's
-You don't move
-Your DHCP pool on the ISP doesn't change, or your DHCP lease in the pool doesn't expire


Each and every blessed one of them CAN ALREADY track who bought what MP3 and make it available for repeated download.

[Hawkmoon]

Lets say I buy an MP3 on amazon.

Tomorrow, the disk I put it on crashes.

I download it from an illegitimate source.

Is this action legal as I still am a copyright holder for that work?

First, by downloading (buying) a legitimate copy, you are NOT a copyright holder. You are an owner of A legal copy. The copyright is still the sole property of whoever holds the copyright.

If you lose your copy, you are not entitled to replace it from an illegal source.

The direct analogy is you buy a book from Barnes & Noble on Thursday. On Friday you realize you left your book in Starbucks. Are you then allowed to shoplift a replacement from Borders Books?

[Nick1911]

The direct analogy is you buy a book from Barnes & Noble on Thursday. On Friday you realize you left your book in Starbucks. Are you then allowed to shoplift a replacement from Borders Books?

Yet again, victimless vs not.

[Devonai]

Good point, Az, I should have said account number.

[Nick1911]

First, buy downloading (buying) a legitimate copy, you are NOT a copyright holder. You are an owner of A legal copy. The copyright is still the sole property of whoever holds the copyright.

That's an interesting thought.

Do I only own rights to one particular copy?

I want to say clearly not, as I am legally able to make copies of the work for my own use/backup.

But if not, what do I actually own rights to?

[HankB]

. . .The direct analogy is you buy a book from Barnes & Noble on Thursday. On Friday you realize you left your book in Starbucks. Are you then allowed to shoplift a replacement from Borders Books?

Not quite a direct analogy - downloading a copy leaves the master intact from whatever source you downloaded it from, whereas shoplifting a replacement - taking possession of a physical object - doesn't.

[AZRedhawk44]

The direct analogy is you buy a book from Barnes & Noble on Thursday. On Friday you realize you left your book in Starbucks. Are you then allowed to shoplift a replacement from Borders Books?

No, the analogy would be taking a scanner or camera to Borders (or the library, etc) and creating a duplicate image of each page of the book.  Then going home and formatting into whatever usable context he desires.  Print, compilation into PDF, eBook, etc.

No loss of property from Borders.  No loss of revenue from Borders.

But, Borders is a retailer.

A torrented MP3 is not the same as Borders.  It's more like a library, or a friend's copy of a book. 

Nick's analogy is like that $100 college textbook that you bought and then lost or had stolen.  So, you borrow a friend's textbook and photocopy it.

[Brad Johnson]

[Booklyn accent] Aye gahts ya's anaalagee right heeyah..[/Brooklyn accent]

Brad

[Jamisjockey]

If you walk into the store, buy a CD, and then lose it a week later, do you then have the right to go to the store, take the CD off the shelf and take it home?
I would argue that you do not have the right to reaquire the song from any source without paying for it.

I don't buy the photocopy analogy.  Property is still property, no matter what form it arrives in when you purchase it.

[P5 Guy]

How is this different from the old analog days?
I could record the song I wanted from the radio on my cassette recorder, was that an infringement of the performer's copyright? Or if I bought the LP and transfered the songs to my 8-track to play in the car?
And how many times do I have to pay for music/movies as the technology changes. LPs to CDs, VHS to DVDs to BlueRay?
  for the movie.

[makattak]

First, I think our intellectual property laws are messed up. Copyright especially.

This may be why theft of copyright is not viewed badly.

Copyright should exist for a VERY short period of time. If 20 years is enough for a patent which I would argue represents something FAR more valuable (to our society) than anything protected by copyright, 20 years should be enough for copyright.

Copyright is the life of the creator PLUS SEVENTY YEARS. That's stupid. I'm sorry Walt, but as good an idea as Mickey is, he should be public domain now.

[280plus]

Copyright is the life of the creator PLUS SEVENTY YEARS. That's stupid.

Is not...  

 

[CNYCacher]

The direct analogy is you buy a book from Barnes & Noble on Thursday. On Friday you realize you left your book in Starbucks. Are you then allowed to shoplift a replacement from Borders Books?

No.  That is not a direct analogy.  It isn't even close to a direct analogy.  Furthermore, everyone here is capable of understanding the original question.  We do not need analogies in order to bring the concept into our understanding by relating it to a process which we understand already.

But, if you insist on making analogies then I will put one out for you:

I buy an MP3.  I lose the file.  I then attempt to remember the song in my head.  Is my brain an illegal copy?  I turn on the radio and find the song to refresh my memory.  Is that theft?

[Brad Johnson]

Is my brain an illegal copy?

You sure you want us to answer that...? *snicker*

Brad

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Short answer: 
Most legitimate music download sources will keep a record of your transactions and allow you to re-download a song file you've purchased previously.  So the question is moot.

Long answer:
When you buy a copyrighted work, you aren't buying the copyright itself, you're buying permission to use the copyrighted work in certain specific ways.  What you're allowed to do with it depends entirely on what you bought.  For instance, the rights I acquire when I purchase an album for my own personal use are entirely different from the rights a radio station acquires when it purchases a new album for broadcast on the radio.

I don't know the specific rights associated with downloading a song from Itunes or somesuch, but I think it's a safe bet that record companies aren't handing out permission for end consumers to obtain their copyrighted work from any ol' internet site that feels like making it available.  More likely, they're simply selling you the rights to obtain that specific music file from that particular website, and to play that song for your own personal enjoyment.

[Nick1911]

Short answer: 
Most legitimate music download sources will keep a record of your transactions and allow you to re-download a song file you've purchased previously.  So the question is moot.

 

Can I download another copy of my MP3 files after the initial purchase?
Your Amazon MP3 Music purchases can only be downloaded once. After you have successfully downloaded the file to your computer at the time of purchase, we recommend that you create a backup copy.

We are currently unable to replace any purchased files that you delete or lose due to a system or disk error. If you encounter a problem with an MP3 file immediately after purchase, please click the "Contact Us" button in the Customer Service box in the right-hand column of this page so we can determine how to help you.

[AZRedhawk44]

You can download them more than once if you still have your AMZ file from Amazon.  Load that into your Amazon MP3 Downloader tool and it will download again.