Post by: Leatherneck on June 26, 2008, 02:12:31 PM
Do they now have no RKBA law that will stand up?
Does that mean that I can carry THROUGH DC IAW FOPA?
Does that mean that I can open-carry in DC?
Does that mean that, if I stay overnight in a public accommodation in DC, I can take a gun with me?
I recognize the likelihood that any of these actions tomorrow, if discovered, would result in a takedown and hassle.
But what is the real-world significance of Heller?
TC
Post by: Brad Johnson on June 26, 2008, 02:23:08 PM
Brad
Post by: Firethorn on June 26, 2008, 02:24:34 PM
"Only if you want to be the next supreme court case"
Post by: Leatherneck on June 26, 2008, 02:25:54 PM
TC
Post by: Brad Johnson on June 26, 2008, 02:28:34 PM
Brad
Post by: Ex-MA Hole on June 26, 2008, 02:55:04 PM
Can't much hurt to try, right?
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 26, 2008, 03:00:54 PM
Post by: De Selby on June 26, 2008, 03:12:24 PM
I don't think we could've asked for a better decision-this case gives us at a minimum that bans can't happen. Now we can move on to argue over what actually constitutes a ban, whether or not some regulation makes self defense impossible (like the lock up provisions they struck down today), and so on.
It's a good case. Now all those laws that survived challenges on the grounds that there is no right to own and bear arms will have to find a new way to survive, and some of them certainly won't.
Post by: Leatherneck on June 26, 2008, 03:22:41 PM
Seriously, I wonder how and when my questions will be answered.
TC
PS: I'm writing the rest of you guys out of my will.
Post by: El Tejon on June 26, 2008, 03:28:47 PM
Gun Police=>
Post by: De Selby on June 26, 2008, 03:34:07 PM
SS, thank you for the first thoughtful response: I'm shocked at how many of our mutual friends want me to "Go ahead--we'll watch."
Seriously, I wonder how and when my questions will be answered.
TC
PS: I'm writing the rest of you guys out of my will.
Seriously, I wonder how and when my questions will be answered.
TC
PS: I'm writing the rest of you guys out of my will.
Hopefully your questions are answered in successive legal wins against the district and other restrictive locales!
You bring up a good point here-I wonder how many people are going to earn themselves gun crime convictions because of what their friends told them about the new rules...."I'm sorry Officer, I thought it was my right!"
Post by: Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas on June 26, 2008, 03:51:54 PM
Now, if you get stopped, you might be able to sue the hell out of the city.
Post by: Bigjake on June 26, 2008, 04:41:47 PM
Happy 2nd Amendment day everybody!
Post by: mtnbkr on June 26, 2008, 04:49:30 PM
Question is, how will folks get their shiny new guns home?
Also, I wonder who'll be the first to get an FFL for DC.
Chris
Post by: Ezekiel on June 26, 2008, 04:55:28 PM
But what is the real-world significance of Heller?
NADA.
Post by: Matthew Carberry on June 26, 2008, 06:51:46 PM
They have to put together a license system for ownership and possession (the timeline I read was within 21 days) no more restrictive than Federal law in terms of disqualifying factors that meets the standard of lawful possession within the home, carriage within the home and ability to maintain in a loaded and accessible state.
Since possession is now legal then the Federal rules on transport would necessarily apply.
The interesting question will indeed be allowing at least one FFL license as you can't constructively live in the District and get a handgun without one I would think. Can't buy it in MD or VA as a non-resident and bring it back, right?
Post by: gunsmith on June 26, 2008, 07:27:55 PM
Post by: Matthew Carberry on June 26, 2008, 07:46:14 PM
A smart FFL should take up residence in DC
I would think they'd have to have a local business license from the City to actually operate.
That wasn't directly covered in Heller.
However, the DC Court of Appeals was on Heller's side, and the lower court just got its ass handed to it twice, so a challenge to the lack of FFL as a practical part of making the ruling work won't (shouldn't anyway) have to go all the way to the Supremes again.
Not sure how many handguns that could become legal there actually are in the District.
The practical application of the ruling should be fun to watch. At least the VCDL is right there to get out the straight skinny.
Post by: De Selby on June 26, 2008, 09:41:02 PM
A smart FFL should take up residence in DC
I would think they'd have to have a local business license from the City to actually operate.
That wasn't directly covered in Heller.
However, the DC Court of Appeals was on Heller's side, and the lower court just got its ass handed to it twice, so a challenge to the lack of FFL as a practical part of making the ruling work won't (shouldn't anyway) have to go all the way to the Supremes again.
Not sure how many handguns that could become legal there actually are in the District.
The practical application of the ruling should be fun to watch. At least the VCDL is right there to get out the straight skinny.
The ticket is that we have an individual right now recognized-it means the government has to do a whole lot more justifying of everything that effectively deprives us of the right.
Excellent turn of events here.
The sad part is that of all the cities in the nation, D.C. probably has one of the highest proportions of its population that won't be able to register a gun under any circumstances.
Post by: RevDisk on June 27, 2008, 03:08:44 AM
Does that mean that I can carry THROUGH DC IAW FOPA? Legally, yes. Technically, you could prior to Heller. I would NOT have recommended it.
Does that mean that I can open-carry in DC? No. Heller didn't directly cover open carry. IANAL, so adjust accordingly.
Does that mean that, if I stay overnight in a public accommodation in DC, I can take a gun with me? Legally, yes. Technically, you could prior to Heller. I would NOT have recommended it.
I recognize the likelihood that any of these actions tomorrow, if discovered, would result in a takedown and hassle. Yep. If not shot. Give it 2-6 months before trying.
But what is the real-world significance of Heller? By itself, not much. De facto bans are illegal. DC's in specific. But that's like saying Omaha beach was just a couple hundred yards of sand. The tactical significance of Heller is that DC just got more gun friendly. Give it two to six months, and you'll be fine keeping a gun in your home or business with minimal police harassment. Starting today, you could keep a gun fully assembled and loaded in your home. But, you have to give the police, politicians and local judges time to adjust to their new reality. You'd eventually get off if caught, but you'd have to deal with a lot of harassment.
The strategic significance of Heller is it's a breach in the lines. We've lost a LOT of ground and have been in retreat since US vs Miller. It's a chance of taking some ground back. There are no certainty, but the odds just got a lot better.
Post by: Ezekiel on June 27, 2008, 06:01:12 AM
I recognize the likelihood that any of these actions tomorrow, if discovered, would result in a takedown and hassle. Yep. If not shot. Give it 2-6 months before trying.
"I wouldn't."
By that time, I anticipate some other -- even if temporary -- means to restrict, until such time as the SCOTUS is packed with appropriate-types.
Sum impact? NADA.
Post by: geronimotwo on June 27, 2008, 06:15:42 AM
I heard Fenty on the news tonight say the ruling ONLY allowed a gun in the house, it did not permit carrying of any kind.
Question is, how will folks get their shiny new guns home?
Also, I wonder who'll be the first to get an FFL for DC.
Chris
Question is, how will folks get their shiny new guns home?
Also, I wonder who'll be the first to get an FFL for DC.
Chris
four interesting notes:
fenty says they will not allow carry, as the ruling only pertains to in home possesion, but he wants individuals to bring their gun to the police station for registering.
the second is that it will only be a matter of time before people will challenge that our individual rights do not stop at the front stoop, and will be allowed to carry.
fenty also feels that the ruling of common arms does not apply to auto or semi-auto handguns.
fenty also kept repeating the catch phrase, "more handguns equals more handgun violence". does this pertain to the police as well? can't self defence also be construed as "violence"?
Post by: Tallpine on June 27, 2008, 08:14:08 AM
I'm not sure why they didn't just apply that to DC right now
I supposed to make more money for lawyers
Post by: Scout26 on June 27, 2008, 10:28:12 AM
SS, thank you for the first thoughtful response: I'm shocked at how many of our mutual friends want me to "Go ahead--we'll watch."
And we'll hold your beer for you !!!
Post by: seeker_two on June 27, 2008, 11:37:26 AM
SS, thank you for the first thoughtful response: I'm shocked at how many of our mutual friends want me to "Go ahead--we'll watch."
And we'll hold your beer for you !!!
And if anyone gives you a problem, tell 'em fistful said it was OK.....
Post by: lupinus on June 27, 2008, 02:33:20 PM