Author Topic: Goodbye McCain/Feingold  (Read 16558 times)

Perd Hapley

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2010, 05:42:53 PM »
He had to violate the principles of the free market Constitution to save it.
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charby

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2010, 08:09:01 PM »
So, now George Soros can spend all the money he wants on a candidate now?
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Waitone

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2010, 08:24:38 PM »
Quote
So, now George Soros can spend all the money he wants on a candidate now?
He already is spending what he wants.  They are call 527's which was a legal classification that sat unused for many years until McCain-Feingold appeared.  They surprise, surprise Soros et al quickly dominated the category.  There are those who claim the current nuttiness of the democrat party is directly attributable to 527's and their domination by Soros and his ilk.  Hard left money demands hard left results.  If this assessment is true I think we'll see a perceptible drift to the right by elements of the democrat party as course corrections are now possible.
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Balog

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2010, 10:06:05 PM »
So... a Republican sponsors one of the worst offenses against the Constitution in years, a Republican president signs it (while admitting it's unConstitutional), and you wonder why people get mad. Then you take that same Senator frsh from wiping his bottom on the Constitution, and you put him up as PotUS candidate and you wonder why people don't feel like voting at all or for a third party?

As long as the R's only selling point is "Hey, we're probably not as bad as the other guys. Sure we'll lie and spend and expand the .gov and generally do everything the D's do, but, you know, not as much." it'll be a hard sell. 
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2010, 10:41:44 PM »
So, you're saying it wasn't a Republican who cosponsored the the anti free speech, incumbent protection act?
;/

Anything to blame the Republicans, eh?


More childishness... 
Indeed...

Sergeant Bob

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2010, 10:47:59 PM »
;/

Anything to blame the Republicans, eh?

Yeah, that's something ya have to work real hard at ain't it?

Dude, don't take it so personal.  :P
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2010, 10:52:43 PM »
Hard not to make it personal.  Electoral idiocy affects all of us.  And as someone who spends considerable time and energy trying to avoid disasters like Obama and pursue boons like Brown and all the others, I take special exception.

I don't go around inventing stupid reasons to disparage your friends and associates at every possible opportunity.  Not polite.  When you do that to me I tend to get touchy.

The Republican Party and the people who make it up has done far more for you than you'll ever understand or appreciate.  Yeah, we/they make mistakes sometimes (name to me any human organization that's perfect, I dare you).  I don't have a problem with folks criticizing our actual blunders, of which there are many.  But people like you who go out of their way to make us/Republicans out to be worse than they really are, stretching the truth and selectively ignoring important facts and grossly misrepresenting what actually happens, well, you guys are not only obnoxious, but literally childish.  And yes, often times I do take it personally.  So would you in the same circumstances.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 10:58:38 PM by Headless Thompson Gunner »

Sergeant Bob

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2010, 11:04:39 PM »
Electoral idiocy affects all of us.  And as someone who spends considerable time and energy trying to avoid disasters like Obama and pursue boons like Brown and all the others, I take special exception.

I don't go around inventing stupid reasons to disparage your friends and associates at every possible opportunity.  Not polite.  When you do that to me I tend to get touchy.

The Republican Party and the people who make it up has done far more for you than you'll ever understand or appreciate.  Yeah, we/they make mistakes sometimes (name to me any human organization that's perfect, I dare you).  I don't have a problem with folks criticizing our actual blunders, of which there are many.  But people like you who go out of their way to make us/Republicans out to be worse than they really are, stretching the truth and selectively ignoring important facts and grossly misrepresenting what actually happens, well, you guys are not only obnoxious, but literally childish.  And yes, often times I do take it personally.  So would you in the same circumstances.

Don't worry, you'll grow out of it! ;/
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

RevDisk

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2010, 11:20:41 PM »

Can't we all just get along and celebrate the death of an unconstitutional law?


On a more positive note, I'm pleased.  At the moment, I believe the ruling applies to corporations at the moment.  Now it's time to get it struck down for everyone else as well.  The bill, IMHO, was not designed to support R or D, but rather incumbents in general.
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DustinD

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2010, 03:39:59 PM »
Quote
Yeah, we/they make mistakes sometimes
How was passing that law a mistake? I am pretty sure they did it on purpose. It is not even like they have had a change of heart or anything, they are still in favor of it.

Being against the First Amendment and an open political process is beyond unforgivable.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2010, 05:41:27 PM »
Yes, they made a mistake on purpose.  Maybe you don't understand the word.

I'm puzzled by those who think "I made a mistake" is an excuse.  I don't see how it's any different from saying "I did something wrong," or "I screwed up," etc.  Either is an admission of wrong-doing.  Context is king. 

And no one is calling for the political forgiveness of Bush or McCain, just a recognition of which party corrected the problem (I dare not call it a mistake), and which party doesn't even recognize the problem.   
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Bruce H

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2010, 05:42:20 PM »
Now we just need to say goodbye to Mccain and Feingold.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2010, 05:43:28 PM »


Agreed.
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Dannyboy

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2010, 05:29:30 AM »
Yes, they made a mistake on purpose.  Maybe you don't understand the word.

I'm puzzled by those who think "I made a mistake" is an excuse.  I don't see how it's any different from saying "I did something wrong," or "I screwed up," etc.  Either is an admission of wrong-doing.  Context is king.

Probably because a lot of people think of mistakes as being accidental in nature.  It's not really a mistake when you out of your way to do something.  Saying you made a mistake when you, as a politician, willfully passed a bad, blatantly unconstitutional law is a cop-out.  I don't see it the same as actually admitting that you made a bad decision and screwed the pooch. 
Oh, Lord, please let me be as sanctimonious and self-righteous as those around me, so that I may fit in.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2010, 07:21:50 AM »
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MechAg94

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #40 on: January 26, 2010, 10:01:20 AM »
Probably because a lot of people think of mistakes as being accidental in nature.  It's not really a mistake when you out of your way to do something.  Saying you made a mistake when you, as a politician, willfully passed a bad, blatantly unconstitutional law is a cop-out.  I don't see it the same as actually admitting that you made a bad decision and screwed the pooch. 
Mistake does not equal Accident.  "Mistake" might understate the seriousness of what was done, but it was no accident.
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MechAg94

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2010, 10:02:01 AM »
Don't worry, you'll grow out of it! ;/
You do realize that you just made his point for him right?   =)
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Seenterman

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2010, 05:31:35 PM »

One thing that both parties and their supporters seem incapable of is admitting when they were wrong.  R's & D's. But don't make it out to be that R appointed judges saved the day, well they did but it wouldn't have been necessary if this had been vetoed in the first place like it should have been by President Bush. Lets just be happy that this is gone.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2010, 06:09:57 PM »
So anytime the Republican party does something to redeem itself, we should ignore it? 
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Seenterman

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2010, 07:44:33 PM »
No I didn't say that just don't make them out to be the savior of the republic when they were partly responsible for this law in the first place.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2010, 08:37:20 PM »
And, again, we see that any faintest praise or defense of any aspect of the Republican Party is construed as panegyric, by the more-conservative/libertarian/constitutionalist-than-thou.  I guess it keeps things simple, for the simple-minded. 
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #46 on: January 26, 2010, 09:24:03 PM »
Simple, yes, but mostly just easy.  

It's so much easier to blame Republicans for everything under the sun, for things they did wrong and for things they didn't do wrong, whether it makes any sense or not.  Blame, blame, blame.  No solutions or anything productive, just more blame.

Once you stop blaming then you have to start thinking about trying to fix things.  Much easier to spew utopian idealities on the intartubes than to roll your sleeves up get down to the messy business of real-world politics.

alex_trebek

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #47 on: January 26, 2010, 09:58:50 PM »
And, again, we see that any faintest praise or defense of any aspect of the Republican Party is construed as panegyric, by the more-conservative/libertarian/constitutionalist-than-thou.  I guess it keeps things simple, for the simple-minded. 

Are you suggesting that someone is simple minded for pointing out that this bill was co-sponsored, co-written, and signed into law by republicans?

Also, and I could be wrong here, aren't judges supposed to be non-partisan? Therefore people are praising the republicans for conservative leaning supreme court justices, that technically aren't a member of the party? That's giving quite a lot of credit to the party. 

Quote
Once you stop blaming then you have to start thinking about trying to fix things.  Much easier to spew utopian idealities on the intartubes than to roll your sleeves up get down to the messy business of real-world politics.

I am curious to know what you meant by this. I hope you don't mean supporting anyone with a "R" after their name. IMO that kind strategy started some of this crap in the first place.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #48 on: January 26, 2010, 10:31:17 PM »
Are you suggesting that someone is simple minded for pointing out that this bill was co-sponsored, co-written, and signed into law by republicans?

No.  I would very much like to see, step by step, the thought process that leads you to take that conclusion from what I wrote.   
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Goodbye McCain/Feingold
« Reply #49 on: January 26, 2010, 10:35:49 PM »
Are you suggesting that someone is simple minded for pointing out that this bill was co-sponsored, co-written, and signed into law by republicans?

I don't see where fisftul said anything like that.  But since you bring it up, I'll say that it is indeed simpleminded.  

This bill was opposed by 80% of Republicans and supported by 95% of Democrats.  To harp on the cosponsors as if that's anywhere near as important as who passed the bill and who opposed it, is to deliberately miss the point.  It puts your biases before the facts.


Also, and I could be wrong here, aren't judges supposed to be non-partisan? Therefore people are praising the republicans for conservative leaning supreme court justices, that technically aren't a member of the party? That's giving quite a lot of credit to the party.  

Judges are supposed to be constitutionalists.  Many are not.  The SC judges Bush appointed are, and they seemed to have tipped the balance of things back to where they should be, making it possible for rulings like this one and Heller to become reality.  It's the courts job to strike down unconstitutional law, and for the first time in a long while we now have a court that's willing to do it. The price for that was a squishy Rep president, and it was worth every penny.

I am curious to know what you meant by this. I hope you don't mean supporting anyone with a "R" after their name. IMO that kind strategy started some of this crap in the first place.
Be honest.  Ask yourself how many hours of labor you've put into fixing things this week.  Or this month.  No need to say it out loud to any of us, but please at least be honest with yourself about it.  Do you actually work towards making things better?

Maybe you can understand where I'm coming from here.  I get tired of people always criticizing, always complaining, never working, never helping, looking for any excuse at all to blame Republicans for everything.  Mostly these peopl talk big on the net but are dead weight for our cause back in the real world.  Don't know if that describes you or not, but be honest with yourself about it.

If you're willing to look at things objectively (for instance, by recognizing that McCain/Feingold was a Dem bill regardless of who cosponsored it, or by recognizing that the price for a constitutional Supreme Court is a squishy Rep President), then you begin to see that there is a huge functional difference between Republicans and Democrats.  

Back in 2000, if we'd all nitpicked GWB foibles to death and not voted for him, we'd probably still have a McCain/Feingold bill, except that it probably would have been much worse, and we wouldn't have a court willing to strike it down.  We tried the don't-vote-for-any-imperfect-Republican strategy back in 2008, and we nearly saw group of Marxists remake the country in their image.

So yes, if the only thought or effort you're willing to devote to the situation is to look at the party, then I absolutely mean that you should always support anyone with a "R" after their name.  That's the best way to protect what we have, and hold things together long enough for the rest of us to come up with a more permanent solution.

Now, if you're willing to put a little more effort into things, then there's a whole lot of work you can do to help improve our situation.  It requires you to actually work, to get dirty in local politics.  It requires you to work within the Republican Party to help make sure that the candidates who have R's after their names are the best ones for the job.  The Rep Party is the only vehicle that can be used to get better leaders into office.  Are you willing to help out?

At the very least, as a first step it requires you to quit whinging about Republicans on the internet.  Are you willing to take that first step?