Author Topic: California pornographer charged (and convicted) under Florida obscenity laws.  (Read 16701 times)

zahc

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Basically, WTF? How does this happen? How did those judges get their jobs, the classified ads? Obviously not; no lay person could possibly rule so badly.

"Obscenity" laws, in which judgements are based on the prevailing "community standards of decency", are already very thin ice IMO. The first ammendment is only applicable if what you have to say is up to "community standards"? And now you can be convicted under the obscenity standards of ANY community in the US? This guy is now doing 2 years in prison after being convicted in a state from completely across the country.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/feb/03/convictions-upheld-resentencing-ordered-max-hardco/


TAMPA - Pornographic materials sold over the Internet may be considered obscene in one community and perfectly acceptable in another.

A federal appeals court says communities that find the materials objectionable are within their rights to prosecute the pornography producers, even though the items were not specifically directed at those communities.

Ruling in the Tampa federal prosecution of Paul F. Little, also known as Max Hardcore, the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals says the law doesn't recognize a national community standard for Internet-based material.

The Atlanta-based court rejected arguments by Little's attorneys that applying a local community standard to the Internet violates the First Amendment because doing so means material can be judged according to the standards of the strictest communities.

In other words, the materials might be legal where they were produced and almost everywhere else. But if they violate the standards of one community, they are illegal in that community and the producers may be convicted of a crime.

The court upheld the 2008 convictions of Little and his production company on 10 violations of federal obscenity laws. But it ordered that Little be resentenced, ruling that the sentencing judge should not have considered the profits from sales of the obscene materials, whether or not they were sold in the Tampa court's jurisdiction.

Little, 53, is in a minimum security prison in Texas serving a 46-month sentence handed down by U.S. District Court Judge Susan Bucklew in January 2009. He has a projected release date of May 29, 2012.

Little is from California but was tried in Tampa after investigators here ordered his videos through the mail and downloaded them over the Internet.

Jurors in Little's trial were told to judge the materials on the basis of how "the average person of the community as a whole – the Middle District of Florida – would view the material."

Little's lawyers maintained that standard was unworkable when dealing with the Internet.

Federal courts are divided on the issue, which could mean it will ultimately be addressed by the U.S. Supreme Court.

The ruling in the Little case applies only in Florida, Alabama and Georgia.

A federal appeals court in California ruled in another case three months ago that a national community standard must be applied when regulating obscene materials over the Internet.

A three-judge panel of the 11th Circuit, however, wrote that they "decline to follow the reasoning" of the California court.

Because the materials in the Little case were ruled to be illegal only in the Middle District of Florida, the sentence had to be limited to the defendants' activities in the district, the Atlanta-based appeals court ruled.

Therefore, Bucklew should not have increased Little's sentencing level under federal guidelines, which penalize defendants for financial gain over $30,000. Little and his company made $40,000 selling the disputed materials.

But the appeals court said there was no evidence of how much of that money was generated in the Middle District of Florida. The panel ordered Little be resentenced at a lower level.

The court said Bucklew acted appropriately, however, when she increased Little's guideline level because the videos were sadistic, masochistic or violent.

The videos featured scenes of vomiting and urination, depicting women being forced to ingest various bodily fluids.
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Jimmy Dean

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The ruling is horryifying to be honest.

It basically means that if I write a book that a 'community' finds obscene, I could be charged from some place in New England or something.  If I went on public record using a cuss word, I could be charged with a crime somewhere I have never been.   What this could lead to is very bad.   However,  I would like to hope that this does get moved up the chain and overturned.

Granted, also possible that there is more to the story.

AZRedhawk44

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Well, when we all get to be one big cozy global community, then the Caliphate can bring us all into Shariah court for kissing our girlfriends in public. :facepalm:

Sheesh.

I love how some detectives with nothing else to do in a sleepy little Florida town, decided to prosecute some guy 3500 miles away rather than look for some real criminals (beating, mugging, raping, murdering, stealing, etc).
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mellestad

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Yuck.  I don't get obscenity laws in the first place, and this seems to be a rather horrifying application of them.

AZRedhawk44

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A federal appeals court in California ruled in another case three months ago that a national community standard must be applied when regulating obscene materials over the Internet.

A three-judge panel of the 11th Circuit, however, wrote that they "decline to follow the reasoning" of the California court.


The 9th circuit says no localized standards for obscenity.

A sub-court of the 11th says "nope, we don't agree with that."

That's a recipe for further appeals.  Either Little wins at the 11th circuit and the Florida town will appeal to SCOTUS (who may or may not grant cert), or Little loses at the 11th circuit and we have a split that SCOTUS will definitely want to resolve.

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Because the materials in the Little case were ruled to be illegal only in the Middle District of Florida, the sentence had to be limited to the defendants' activities in the district, the Atlanta-based appeals court ruled.

Therefore, Bucklew should not have increased Little's sentencing level under federal guidelines, which penalize defendants for financial gain over $30,000. Little and his company made $40,000 selling the disputed materials.

Little could open his books and shipping manifests.  Look for all zip codes inside the town's jurisdiction that ordered his videos (minus the nosey police department that started the whole mess).  Prove his financial gain to that area is less than $30k.  After all, he only made $40k selling across the entire country according to this article.  How could 1 town represent 75% of that? 

Unless... the town's "community standards" aren't as high as some judges might claim. =D

However, doing so is a kind of admission of wrong-doing and shouldn't be done until appeals actions are exhausted to get a ruling compatible with liberty and freedom of association.

(No, I don't like puke/vomit/feces smut... but if "actresses" are willing to perform and people are willing to buy, I don't have a problem with videos being sold as long as I'm not forced to watch it.)
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roo_ster

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I have no problems with "community standards" & such.  It smells very much of federalism to me.

I think the idea was inappropriately applied in this instance, though, for many reasons.

BTW, Tampa is not some sleepy little burg.  It is a large city and has way too many serious problems to waste LEO time/effort by ordering naughty stuff off the net. 
Regards,

roo_ster

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CNYCacher

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Jurors in Little's trial were told to judge the materials on the basis of how "the average person of the community as a whole – the Middle District of Florida – would view the material."

The problem is laid bare in this line.
On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.
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grey54956

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Little is from California but was tried in Tampa after investigators here ordered his videos through the mail and downloaded them over the Internet.

So, why aren't the investigators being charged for purchasing and possessing indecent material in Tampa.  They are the ones who brought said material into their locality.  Honestly, he didn't sell them in Tampa.  He didn't mail them in Tampa.  He didn't upload them in Tampa.  In truth, the videos were packaged, and went to a delivery company.  After that, wherever they go, who really knows.  Likewise, the videos uploaded from his server, probably to another server beyond his control in California.  Where they go from there, who knows.  The buyer and end user should be held accountable for the products that they purchased and possess if having those products violates their local laws.

So, if I buy beer in Ohio on Sunday, but drive it over the Indiana border because beer sales are a no-no on Sunday, should the liquor store or brewery be held liable for my attaining beer on Sunday?
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zahc

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But he's a pornographer. Porn! Sex! Think of the children!
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S. Williamson

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Does this mean that if I built an AR I risk being convicted in CA?  ???
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AZRedhawk44

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Does this mean that if I built an AR I risk being convicted in CA?  ???

Yep.  You're altering the harmonics of interstate commerce in pre-ban/post-ban supply chains.  Every AR you build in free America makes a pre-94 (or pre-Cali-ban) AR worth less.  You're hurting California's economy.

I've sent a note to the CA extradition teams.  They'll be along shortly. =D
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S. Williamson

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Aw, crap.  And I have class in half an hour...  =(
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tyme

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But he's a pornographer. Porn! Sex! Think of the children!

How can they legitimately categorize this stuff as obscene?  Urination and vomiting in a porn context appeals to a very very small portion of the population.  More people get aroused by well-prepared meals, tbh, and I don't see any political movement to ban those.

Ban cheesecake and chocolate!  For the Childruhn!  Iron Chef will bring about the downfall of civilization!
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MicroBalrog

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Urination and vomiting in a porn context appeals to a very very small portion of the population. 

This is EXACTLY why they can ban it.
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PTK

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Redacted.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 12:06:01 AM by PTK »
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September 1915 - August 2008

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41magsnub

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First they came for the scatological porn and I said nothing!

MicroBalrog

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In effect we have here a symptom of a greater disease.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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tyme

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Various states have been trying to nail this guy for rather distasteful things for years. I'm rather happy they got him.

O hai there Mr. Morality.  Let's hope nobody ever finds your habits distasteful.

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(Along the lines of "Sign here for your paycheck, hon. Yes, it's a contract. Don't bother reading..... Oh, thanks for signing, we're going to rape you now. You agreed via contract.")

You must have a very strange definition of rape.  I can't find any reference to Max Hardcore producing BDSM porn, but even if he did, BDSM does not work the way you described.
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PTK

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Fine. I'm wrong, you're right. I'll edit my post now. Leave yours if you wish.
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tyme

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There's some more background with choice quotes from some jury members in this NSFW AVN link (purposely not hotlinked) below (from the trial verdict in Summer '08)

http:// business.avn.com/articles/30615.html (NSFW Adult Video News link)

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The jurors indicated that while the five movies, which contained scenes of urination, fisting and vomiting, were not to their taste, they didn't see anything wrong with others watching them if they wanted to, with the foreman commenting, "After all, that's why we have the First Amendment."

"I'm sorry those jurors didn't have the guts to stick to their beliefs," Sirkin said later. "It's a sad day in this country when even if you believe a person didn't commit a crime, that you can be badgered into changing your vote just because some other juror tries to bully you. That's not the way Americans are supposed to react."

One of the jurors said that as soon as the jury had entered the deliberation room, nine of them had been ready to find guilt on all charges before any discussion had even taken place.

"It was a travesty but we had no choice because of the way the law is written," the foreman declared. "If just two words in the law had been different, I think we could have held out longer for acquittal, and maybe even convinced the rest of them."

The two words: "Reasonably foreseeable," in the statute making it a crime to mail obscene matter, or aiding and abetting such mailing by another person. (See judge's comment above.)

Bad law + no awareness of jury nullification
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 12:28:31 AM by tyme »
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jackdanson

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O hai there Mr. Morality.  Let's hope nobody ever finds your habits distasteful.

You must have a very strange definition of rape.  I can't find any reference to Max Hardcore producing BDSM porn, but even if he did, BDSM does not work the way you described.

If you have a free afternoon and a wife that won't murder you google up some Max Hardcore videos.  There are a few where the girls are crying saying they want to stop and he won't... it's not acting, if it is these girls need to win some awards.  I'm very open minded sexually and have no problems with people doing whatever they want with their bodies, but this guy is a bad, bad person, I don't feel bad for him at all.  He tricks young girls (who were probably raped as children) into doing horrible things.  He also portrays them all as 10 year olds.  In my opinion someone decided he was a bad guy and wanted to take him down, fine with me.

(not that... ummm..... I have any expertise in adult movies... well at least not of that variety)

MicroBalrog

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There's a whole variety of videos that look that way, by a variety of producers. Film =/= reality.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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there are time when folks espousing a cause rally to defend the wrong guy. and in so doing they matginalize if not completely discredit their cause,   this is one of those times. i'd go to a human sacrifice if it didn't keep me up too late and this guys stuff crosses my line.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

CNYCacher

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If you have a free afternoon and a wife that won't murder you google up some Max Hardcore videos.  There are a few where the girls are crying saying they want to stop and he won't... it's not acting, if it is these girls need to win some awards.  I'm very open minded sexually and have no problems with people doing whatever they want with their bodies, but this guy is a bad, bad person, I don't feel bad for him at all.  He tricks young girls (who were probably raped as children) into doing horrible things.  He also portrays them all as 10 year olds.  In my opinion someone decided he was a bad guy and wanted to take him down, fine with me.

(not that... ummm..... I have any expertise in adult movies... well at least not of that variety)

If I understand you correctly, the actresses are actually being raped and not acting.  Is that your point?
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MicroBalrog

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There's plenty of porn where actors ask the other guy to stop, or scream out in pain. That doesn't mean they're being raped - even though some of the stuff they do probably has to be physically uncomfortable, they're no more being raped than boxers are victims of assault. Anybody can go to several free-to-access porn sites and enter certain keywords (no, I will not reveal neither the keywords nor the URLs in an all-ages forum, PM me if you feel like checking) to find giant amounts of it. Had these actresses been raped, they'd be filing charges.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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