Author Topic: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday  (Read 5580 times)

MattC

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The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« on: March 07, 2007, 04:20:12 PM »
I did a search for "300" and didn't see something on this.

EasternShore posted this first on THR, and mustanger98 pointed out that this belongs on APS.

So, the movie 300: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0416449/

"Based on Frank Miller's graphic novel, "300" concerns the 480 B.C. Battle of Thermopylae, where the King of Sparta led his army against the advancing Persians; the battle is said to have inspired all of Greece to band together against the Persians, and helped usher in the world's first democracy."

p.s. -- I'm seeing it at the local IMAX this Friday Smiley


Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2007, 05:50:20 PM »
I'm looking forward to seeing this one.  I like Frank Miller's work, and I like what they did with the movie version of Sin City.  300 promises to be even better.

MechAg94

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Re: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2007, 05:09:11 AM »
I guess I am the naysayer.  I have read some on Greek and Roman warfare and I am not sure I can watch this movie without expecting/wanting some more realism.  I just don't think I'll get it.  The sneak peeks and previews I have seen promise a bunch of computer graphics and unrealism.  In one sneak peek, even the blood was fake looking and surreal.  I am afraid this will end up like that new Planet of the Apes movie.  I don't see many movies and I'll likely wait for this one on video. 
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Cromlech

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Re: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2007, 06:15:22 AM »
I will be seeing it once it screens in the U.K.

I can understand the complaints about realism, but that is not what this film is about. It is from the same guy that did the Sin City comics, and it is supposed to look like this. It's not supposed to be a documentary.
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HankB

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Re: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2007, 06:57:33 AM »
I've heard that some parts of the European press are advising their audiences to think Bush and the USA when they see Xerxes and the Persians . . . and to view the Greeks as Iraqis . . .

The guy who made the movie says it's only a dramatization of the events that took place at Theromopyle in 480 BC.
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K Frame

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Re: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2007, 07:25:50 AM »
"The guy who made the movie says it's only a dramatization of the events that took place at Theromopyle in 480 BC."

Bingo.

Anyone who goes looking for an in-depth historical analysis of the battle doesn't have realistic expectations.

This is essentially a "Gone With the Wind" version of Thermopylae.

It's set in a historical context, but it's not history.
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cosine

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Re: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2007, 08:23:06 AM »
I don't plan on seeing it.
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Re: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2007, 08:32:36 AM »
I guess I am the naysayer.  I have read some on Greek and Roman warfare and I am not sure I can watch this movie without expecting/wanting some more realism.  I just don't think I'll get it.  The sneak peeks and previews I have seen promise a bunch of computer graphics and unrealism.  In one sneak peek, even the blood was fake looking and surreal.  I am afraid this will end up like that new Planet of the Apes movie.  I don't see many movies and I'll likely wait for this one on video. 

Maybe Victor Davis Hanson can help:
Last Night at the 300

I went to the Hollywood Premier of the "300" last night, and talked a bit with Director Zack Snyder, screenwriter Kurt Johnstad, and graphic novelist Frank Miller. There will be lots of controversy about this filmwell aside from erroneous allegations that it is pro- or anti-Bush, when the movie has nothing to do with Iraq or contemporary events, at least in the direct sense. (Miller's graphic novel was written well before the "war against terror" commenced under President Bush).

I wrote an introduction for the accompanying book about the film when Kurt Johnstad came down to Selma to show me a CD advanced unedited version last October, but some additional reflections follow from last night.

There are four key things to remember about the film: it is not intended to be Herodotus Book 7.209-236, but rather is an adaptation from Frank Miller's graphic novel, which itself is an adaptation from secondary work on Thermopylai. Purists should remember that when they see elephants and a rhinoceros or scant mention of the role of those wonderful Thespians who died in greater numbers than the Spartans at Thermopylai.

Second, in an eerie way, the film captures the spirit of Greek fictive arts themselves. Snyder and Johnstad and Miller are Hellenic in this sense: red-figure vase painting especially idealized Greek hoplites through "heroic nudity". Such iconographic stylization meant sometimes that armor was not included in order to emphasize the male physique.

So too the 300 fight in the film bare-chested. In that sense, their oversized torsos resemble not only comic heroes, but something of the way that Greeks themselves saw their own warriors in pictures. And even the loose adaptation of events reminds me of Greek tragedy, in which an Electra, Iphigeneia or Helen in the hands of a Euripides is portrayed sometimes almost surrealistically, or at least far differently from the main narrative of the Trojan War, followed by the more standard Aeschylus, Sophocles and others.

Third, Snyder, Johnstad, and Miller have created a strange convention of digital backlot and computer animation, reminiscent of the comic book mix of Sin City. That too is sort of like the conventions of Attic tragedy in which myths were presented only through elaborate protocols that came at the expense of realism (three male actors on the stage, masks, dialogue in iambs, with elaborate choral meters, violence off stage, 1000-1600 lines long, etc.).

There is irony here. Oliver Stone's mega-production Alexander spent tens of millions in an effort to recapture the actual career of Alexander the Great, with top actors like Collin Farrel, Anthony Hopkins, and Angelina Joilie. But because this was a realist endeavor, we immediately were bothered by the Transylvanian accent of Olympias, Stone's predictable brushing aside of facts, along with the distortions, and the inordinate attention given to Alexander's supposed proclivities. But the "300" dispenses with realism at the very beginning, and thus shoulders no such burdens. If characters sometimes sound black-and-white as cut-out superheroes, it is not because they are badly-scripted Greeks, as was true in Stone's film, but because they reflect the parameters of the convention of graphic novels, comic books, and surrealistic cinematography. Also I liked the idea that Snyder et al. were more outsiders than Stone, and pulled something off far better with far less resources and connections. The acting proved excellentagain, ironic when the players are not marquee stars.

Fourth, but what was not conventionalized was the martial spirit of Sparta that comes through the film. Many of the most famous lines in the film come directly either from Herodotus or Plutarch's Moralia, and they capture well, in the historical sense, the collective Spartan martial ethic, honor, glory, and ancestor reverence (I say that as an admirer of democratic Thebes and its destruction of Sparta's system of Messenian helotage in 369 BC).

Whybeside the blood-spattering violence and often one-dimensional characterizationswill some critics not like this, despite the above caveats?

Ultimately the film takes a moral stance, Herodotean in nature:  there is a difference, an unapologetic difference between free citizens who fight for eleutheria and imperial subjects who give obeisance. We are not left with the usual postmodern quandary 'who are the good guys' in a battle in which the lust for violence plagues both sides. In the end, the defending Spartans are better, not perfect, just better than the invading Persians, and that proves good enough in the end. And to suggest that ambiguously these days has perhaps become a revolutionary thing in itself.


03/06 02:55 PM
Regards,

roo_ster

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K Frame

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Re: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2007, 08:34:32 AM »
History Channel tonight at 9 p.m.

Last Stand of the 300, a HISTORICAL overview of the battle and the events leading up to it.
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wmenorr67

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Re: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2007, 08:36:28 AM »
I have to wait for it to be out on DVD due to being where I am at this time.  But know the Iraqis if it debuts in the theatres on Friday, I should be able to buy it Saturday.  Hell if I look I may even be able to buy it now.
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Cromlech

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Re: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2007, 08:37:36 AM »
I have to wait for it to be out on DVD due to being where I am at this time.  But know the Iraqis if it debuts in the theatres on Friday, I should be able to buy it Saturday.  Hell if I look I may even be able to buy it now.

  grin Supply and demand, eh?
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Mabs2

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Re: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2007, 09:07:07 AM »
Hoping to see it here in town a week or so after when the crowds thin down.
If there are crowds, haven't been to my local cinema in forever.
Of course, if dad wants to see it in the nice theaters up north I'll be doing that whenever...but I doubt he even knows it exists.
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Sindawe

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Re: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2007, 09:52:40 AM »
Gonna see it sometime soon.  Hopefully at an IMAX theatre.
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Manedwolf

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Re: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2007, 10:34:09 AM »
History Channel tonight at 9 p.m.

Last Stand of the 300, a HISTORICAL overview of the battle and the events leading up to it.

I would watch things on that channel if they didn't stretch 20 minutes of actual content into repeated bits, repeated repeated bits, and a full half hour of commercials.

Eleven Mike

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Re: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2007, 10:50:04 AM »
Wouldn't one learn much more about history by reading than watching the History Channel?  Not to mention that the library's probably cheaper than cable. 

HankB

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Re: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2007, 10:50:46 AM »
I have to wait for it to be out on DVD due to being where I am at this time.  But know the Iraqis if it debuts in the theatres on Friday, I should be able to buy it Saturday.
I guess we're just not as technically adept . . . I was in Zambia when Jurassic Park was just hitting theaters, and VHS copies were already available at the rental stores in Lusaka! (The name of the movie & rental store were written on the sleeve in magic marker . . .  shocked)
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K Frame

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Re: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2007, 11:06:28 AM »
Wouldn't one learn much more about history by reading than watching the History Channel?  Not to mention that the library's probably cheaper than cable. 


That assumes that numerous individuals here are actually literate, and I've seen precious little evidence of that.

Jesus H. Leonidis on the tip of a spear... Has anyone ever CLAIMED that History Channel shows are exhaustive examinations of any particular event in question? I even used the word OVERVIEW, for Chris'ts sake.

It's a TELEVISION show that can be watched in an HOUR. It's not the *expletive deleted*ing Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire in 122 volumes.  rolleyes
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MechAg94

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Re: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2007, 12:01:11 PM »
I can watch stuff on the History Channel, get some nice visuals, and pick up a few facts here and there while doing something else like reviewing procedure changes for work or other chores.  I can't multi-task while reading non-fiction. 

The stuff above defending the movie is nothing I haven't heard before.  I think I would find it impossible not to expect some historical accuracy so I'll just save my money and wait.  Maybe a dollar theater will have it in a month or two. 
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Eleven Mike

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Re: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2007, 12:08:37 PM »
Mike, the point was that one will learn more in an hour of reading a decent historical work than in watching HC. 

I can watch stuff on the History Channel, get some nice visuals, and pick up a few facts here and there while doing something else like reviewing procedure changes for work or other chores.  I can't multi-task while reading non-fiction. 

Well, I can't multi-task while watching television, so maybe it's just me.


K Frame

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Re: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2007, 05:17:57 PM »
"Mike, the point was that one will learn more in an hour of reading a decent historical work than in watching HC. "

DUH!

I know what the point was. I still fail to see why you brought it up, though.

Hell, you could probably learn more by actually TRAVELING to the Agean and seeing everything first hand, touring the museums, maybe take some courses at the University of Athens on ancient Greek history. You'd also expanding your cultural horizons and have a nice vacation, too boot.

Why didn't you bring that up?  rolleyes

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Eleven Mike

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Re: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2007, 08:29:10 PM »
Quote
I know what the point was. I still fail to see why you brought it up, though.

Mainly, because I was agreeing with ManedWolf. 


Quote
Why didn't you bring that up?

Because an apple is not an orange.  College-level instruction and trips to exotic places cost considerably more time and money.  If you can spend an hour watching the History Channel, chances are you could have spent that hour with a good book you checked out from the library or bought for peanuts(used).*  After several of these hours, you would have consumed a book that contained more information and probably gave you a more balanced view of the subject.  More than that, you can easily go back to that book later on to refresh your memory, or cite a fact in a paper or here on APS (ya know, like jfruser always does). 


*Yes, I recognize that not everyone has access to books.

K Frame

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Re: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2007, 06:09:37 AM »
"Because an apple is not an orange."

Wow. Amazing. You recognize that, yet you tossed a pomegranate into the mix. A book and a program offering a historical survey aren't analagous, either.


You know, I think I'm seeing something here...

I think you hate TV, and people who enjoy TV.

Now that we've uncovered your true bias in this, I think we're fine.

As I've said, repeatedly, the History Channel gives an OVERVIEW, a survey, of the history of the battle and the motivations behind it.

You're full of it if you think that you could get the same type of survey overview from any book (other than Cliffnotes, perhaps) in the same time that it would take to watch the show on the history channel.

You might get through a FEW chapters on Xerses' motivations, or Leonidis' early life, but youll invest a LOT more time in a book to obtain the same overview than you would by watching the TV show. So, in reality, you're no farther ahead than you would have been, at that point in time, by watching the TV show.

And we're not even going to get into the concept of whether the author of the particular book you choose knows his ass home a hole in the ground...

Don't want to watch the show on TV? That's fine.

Go find a good book and curl up on the couch.


And you can go BACK to a book? Wow, I never knew that. I thought they evaporated the second you turned that last page. "Congratulations, agent, you met the challenge. The book you have read will self-destruct in 10 seconds..."

Looks like I have lot of last page reading to do. I always wondered how so many of my books ended&
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mtnbkr

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Re: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2007, 06:58:22 AM »
I read books AND watch TV because I enjoy both activities. 

I spit on the rest of you poor fools who don't bother to go back in time and relive actual history as it occurs. Tongue

Chris

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Re: The movie 300 -- debuts Friday
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2007, 07:05:09 AM »
What's the male equivalent of a catfight???  laugh
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