Author Topic: Fear over higher costs looms over climate debate  (Read 1917 times)

Desertdog

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Fear over higher costs looms over climate debate
« on: April 22, 2009, 12:25:26 PM »
I wonder if the elites are starting to get worried that we, the people, are now looking over what they are doing.  They do seem to be a little more cautious now, since we had the Tea Parties.

Fear over higher costs looms over climate debate
By DINA CAPPIELLO
Associated Press
http://www.gopusa.com/news/2009/april/0422_climate_debate.shtml


WASHINGTON (AP) -- As Congress begins to debate climate change in earnest, the science is taking a back seat to economics: How much will it cost to slow the Earth's warming because of man-made pollution -- and what's the cost of doing nothing?

With a key House committee starting four days of hearings, Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., vowed to get a climate bill approved this year. Noting that Earth Day will be celebrated on Wednesday, she told reporters by the next Earth Day "we want to celebrate what we've done this year" to address climate change and clean energy.

But the challenge of getting bipartisan support immediately became apparent.

The Energy and Commerce Committee hearing had barely begun when Republicans raised their concerns about higher energy prices produced by putting an added price for burning fossil fuels.

"In its current form, this bill may do more harm to our economy than any bill that is likely to come before Congress for the rest of this year, or perhaps during my natural lifetime," declared Rep. Michael C. Burgess, R-Texas.

Rep. John Dingell, D-Mich., whose state's already is reeling economically and home to energy-intensive industries, said the economic impact of the bill drafted by Democrats "cannot be overstated" unless ways are found to blunt expected increases in energy costs.

The Democratic proposal calls for broad limits on carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gas emissions, meaning energy from fossil fuels, especially coal in the production of electricity, will become more expensive. It would cut greenhouse gases by 20 percent from 2005 levels by 2020, and 83 percent by mid-century.

The bill also includes a string of measures aimed at reducing the use of fossil energy such as requiring utilities to produce a quarter of their electricity from renewable sources, and calling for tougher standards to promote energy efficiency.

The proposed "cap-and-trade" system would limit greenhouse gas emissions and allow industries to buy and sell emissions credits in the open market to make it easier, and less expensive, to comply with the emissions ceiling.

A key question yet to be resolved is how the government should make available pollution permits: Sell all at an auction or provide them for free to industries most greatly affected such as coal-burning power plants and energy intensive industries.

"We need to talk that through with our members," said Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif., who said he's confident "it will be resolved in the legislative process."

Rep. Ed Markey, D-Mass., whose subcommittee crafting the bill, said some emissions permits likely will be given to energy-intensive industries threatened by imports. Keeping energy costs down, "that's our commitment, our goal," he told reporters.

President Barack Obama wants all of the permits auctioned off with billions of dollars in auction proceeds to blunt the cost hikes of electricity and other energy as fossil-fuel generated energy becomes more expensive.

The Environmental Protection Agency in a preliminary review of the House draft said the emission reduction can come at a relatively small cost -- as little as $13 a ton of carbon dioxide -- in 2015 and produce significant energy savings through improved efficiency.

The policy "will have relatively modest impact on U.S. consumers" if most of the mo

makattak

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Re: Fear over higher costs looms over climate debate
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2009, 01:03:59 PM »
Quote
As Congress begins to debate climate change in earnest, the science is taking a back seat to economics: How much will it cost to slow the Earth's warming because of man-made pollution -- and what's the cost of doing nothing?

We've found a way to make politicians do a cost/benefit analysis!!!!!

All we have to do is rachet the cost up to "If we pass this bill, it will kill the economy and WE WILL BE VOTED OUT" (and, hopefully, tarred and feathered and run out of the country on a rail). At that point, politicians are able to perform cost/benefit analysis.

If only we could do that on EVERY bill.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Monkeyleg

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Re: Fear over higher costs looms over climate debate
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2009, 03:33:49 PM »
Quote
All we have to do is rachet the cost up to "If we pass this bill, it will kill the economy and WE WILL BE VOTED OUT" (and, hopefully, tarred and feathered and run out of the country on a rail). At that point, politicians are able to perform cost/benefit analysis.

At this point I'm more of a mind to say, "if you press the 'Aye' button, I'll cut off your hand."

Strings

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Re: Fear over higher costs looms over climate debate
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2009, 05:15:57 PM »
Monkeyleg wins the internets!
No Child Should Live In Fear

What was that about a pearl handled revolver and someone from New Orleans again?

Screw it: just autoclave the planet (thanks Birdman)

vaskidmark

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Re: Fear over higher costs looms over climate debate
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2009, 08:34:08 AM »
Quote
"We need to talk that through with our members," said Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif., who said he's confident "it will be resolved in the legislative process."

Translation:

"Resolved, that the Congress of the United States of America, assembled ...."

I have serious doubts that congresscritters are thinking of how voters may respond to Globular Climactric Changling legislation, let alone what tar and feathers actually feel like.  They can always order the Treasury to print more money to give to the folks who otherwise could not pay for the energy needed to produce --

Wait a minute!  Just what do we actually produce anymore, except energy?  Farmers are going to plant enough corn and soybeans to be converted into biofuel that will be needed to run the plants to manufacture the fertilizers needed to support the corn and soybean crops, even if that means reducing the amount of wheat grown for bread to be given away at the circuses.  If we do that, there will be enough biofuel to support the automotive industry forever!  And if the automotive industry lives on, there will be an everlasting need for banks for loans to buy automobiles, and insurance companies to buy policies covering the straightening of sheetmetal (no need for medical insurance, as the government will be meeting that need for everybody at no cost).

Yup!  If we just grow enough corn and soybeans for biofuel, all will be well, and those naysayers who were worried about the possibility of rising costs will be shown the folly of their faulty thinking.

By Obama, this just might be the way!

stay safe.

skidmark (who is now going to go get his meds from the nice nurses)
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grampster

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Re: Fear over higher costs looms over climate debate
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2009, 08:59:41 AM »
Yep.  Except the latest study seems to indicate that bio fuels dirty up the atmosphere more than fossil fuels.  Who's gonna pay $45,000.00 for a plug in car that goes 40 miles before it craps out?

I'd like to get appointed to a new cabinet position.  Secretary of Who Says You're Right.  Everytime the congress meets to discuss another damn fool idea, I get to stand up and say..."Who Says You're Right?"
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MechAg94

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Re: Fear over higher costs looms over climate debate
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2009, 10:18:32 PM »
I'm still trying to figure out what they think companies will do with the CO2 emissions and how they think emissions will get reduced.  Most emissions at chemical plants I am familiar with can't change. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

richyoung

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Re: Fear over higher costs looms over climate debate
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2009, 04:23:16 PM »
Didn't they just do a big study with 5000 floating thermometers and 6 satellites for five years to find out that...

...there's NO detectable global warming?  NPR's Richard Harris said so on March 19th.

Didn't the NOAA National Climate Data Center say that the winter of 2007-08 was the coldest one since 2001?

I gotta ask - WHAT global warming?
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't...