Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Hawkmoon on October 26, 2021, 10:49:39 PM
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A question came up in a writers' forum on which I occasionally participate. A new writer wants to set a spooky novel on a freighter. He/she (can't tell which by the screen name) is thinking of a freighter as having "miles and miles of narrow, twisting corridors" below decks.
Are freighters really like that? What's actually below decks on a container ship? Are there any "conventional" freighter ships that still carry cargo in holds below decks? If so, are the passageways that lead from one cargo hold to the next?
Thanks.
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A great source for this would be to watch some Chief MAKO and JeffHK videos on YouTube.
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Obviously ships differ, but generally no there aren't miles and miles of passageways. Warships tend to actually have more, because they are more committed to compartmentalization. Freighters will have holds forward, an engine room in the stern, and maybe a couple passageways between those and smaller compartments. The superstructure will have more, smaller compartments with passageways on each deck. Remember there is a lot of interior volume taken up with fuel and ballast tanks on any large ship. And machinery spaces.
So certainly some passageways, that will be kinda narrow, but not twisting really, then a handful of small compartments (storage, boatswains locker, chain lockers, machine shop) and a couple really big compartments (holds, machinery spaces) in the hull, then more smaller compartments (staterooms, galley, crews mess, food storage, day room sometimes) connected by passageways in the superstructure would be "typical". Of course there are a ton of ships still floating out there some of which or old, have been refit, or both, so almost anything could go.
For "miles and miles of passageways" to, I assume, get lost in or be hunted by the spooky, they might want to find a way to work into the plot it being an ex military ship (like an old LSD or something) or an old cruise liner. Both of those are going to have way more compartmentalized and confusing interiors then any freighter.
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I'm sure he can "write around" problems like that if it's actually necessary to the plot itself.... just a dark corridor, and let the reader manufacture what is necessary in his head. Sort of like old time radio scripts, although that was helped along by the sound effects man.
I'm sure all ships have corridors and I'm not sure it would be necessary to mention either "many" or "few" corridors. So if you need another corridor, OK, so he ran down an other corridor.
This is not to say that coloration is un-necessary to "paint a picture," but if a question of "how many" corridors there are arises, paint the picture with another brush.
"He ducked around a corner and fired a shot in my direction." You don't have to say whether it was a right-turn corner or a left-turn one unless it was necessary to the plot that the shooter was left handed and had the gun in his left hand.
In which case do some plot-wringing.
I have a vague recollection of one of those "How did they do that" episodes dealing with the loading and unloading of cargo ships which had a lot of "footage" (bytage?) of the spaces below decks as they moved stuff in and out. Looked pretty roomy to me. A major concern was how to deal with the fact that taking on loads A, B, C, and D at various ports did not mean the loads would be unloaded in that order as the ship visited the destination ports. I don't know how it worked on cargo ships (freighters) in the old days. But the cargo ship shown in that video bytage had lots of room and it seemed most access was big enough for large fork-lift-type handling equipment. And there were tie-down anchors in the floor every umpteen feet.
Terry, 230RN
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It's not all that hard for an idiot to get turned around even on smaller ships. I used to get lost my first day or two on even little 250-300' research vessels all the time.
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Warship, passenger liner, or perhaps a ro-ro. The last would have miles of cars on board if still loaded.
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It's not all that hard for an idiot to get turned around even on smaller ships. I used to get lost my first day or two on even little 250-300' research vessels all the time.
What, didn't you have a compass with you?
<slooow drum roll while that one sinks in>
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well, depending on what the freighter is carrying and how it's loaded, I could see it having miles of narrow and somewhat twisting passages between elements of a palletized load...
Otherwise, though, the few freighters I've been on, small ones, have been pretty wide open internally because, you know, they haul freight, and passageways just aren't really all that good for freight storage.
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Thanks, folks. I have passed along your comments. That's all I can do. I have a feeling this person is already committed to a story line and that the fact ships don't fit into his/her preconceived notion probably won't make much difference.
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A great source for this would be to watch some Chief MAKO and JeffHK videos on YouTube.
:facepalm: Completely forgot about Chief MAKO. Thanks!
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New question -- for my own curiosity:
What's beneath the main deck of a container ship? Do they carry containers below the main deck? Smaller cargo? Bulk materials?
Or just fuel and crew quarters.
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New question -- for my own curiosity:
What's beneath the main deck of a container ship? Do they carry containers below the main deck? Smaller cargo? Bulk materials?
Or just fuel and crew quarters.
If it's a RoRo, then:
https://youtu.be/JAGCjRgat90
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"What's beneath the main deck of a container ship?"
Seamen.
Lots and lots of seamen.
Someone had to say it. You all were thinking it, you pervs! :rofl:
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Great video, in tune with what I saw on TV --and I think they may have used some of that guy's bytage.
Thanks!
Ro-ro = "roll on, roll off." Hadda look it up. If you can use ro-ro, I can use bytage. =D
Makes me wonder about ventilation with all those cars moving around.
Terry, 230RN
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New question -- for my own curiosity:
What's beneath the main deck of a container ship? Do they carry containers below the main deck? Smaller cargo? Bulk materials?
Or just fuel and crew quarters.
The container holds. The boxes you see above decks are probably half(ish) of the boxes on board. They are often sitting on the hatches to the holds.
(https://conceptbunny.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Container-Ship-Johannesburg.jpg)
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I would imagine that on a cargo ship a lot of point a to point b is vertical. Come up out of a hole transit a main deck or weather deck and pop down another hole. Even on an aircraft carrier there were only two levels you could truck from one end to the other in passageways. Everything else you had to go up, down or around. Amphib was worse, well deck and vehicle storage in addition to an aircraft hangar meant everything else was crammed wherever or underneath. Ladders(inclined) or vertical ladders in trunks is my defining memory of getting anywhere out of the way on a ship. That and the carrier O-3 level hurdles when running the length of the ship in an emergency. Knee know every fifty feet, jump and duck at the same time.
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The container holds. The boxes you see above decks are probably half(ish) of the boxes on board. They are often sitting on the hatches to the holds.
(https://conceptbunny.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Container-Ship-Johannesburg.jpg)
Sounds like even if the holds are wide open, there are lots and lots of spaces between cargo containers that might feel pretty tight. Not a likely place to get lost unless you have no sense of direction. Never been there so I don't know.
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Those containers are locked in about 3" apart.
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Those containers are locked in about 3" apart.
Maybe after the killer gets done with them they can fit through there.
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Is she trying to mimic "Ghostship"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Ship_(2002_film)
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Is she trying to mimic "Ghostship"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Ship_(2002_film)
wow... What a crap festival that was....
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wow... What a crap festival that was....
well there was nudity, so it had that going.
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well there was nudity, so it had that going.
And not even that could salvage it.
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Those containers are locked in about 3" apart.
Don't drop your pen.
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Is she trying to mimic "Ghostship"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Ship_(2002_film)
Dunno. It's quite possible, but that hasn't been announced. It's also possible that this fledgling author is entirely unaware of that movie, but has come up with a similar idea independently.
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It would be very hard to write a ship for someone who had never did a ship and get them to the atmosphere. I can smell and hear my old ships as much as I can visualize them. No more an eerie place exists when all the normal stops and is replaced by quiet and distant sounds of emergencies going on.
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It would be very hard to write a ship for someone who had never did a ship and get them to the atmosphere. I can smell and hear my old ships as much as I can visualize them. No more an eerie place exists when all the normal stops and is replaced by quiet and distant sounds of emergencies going on.
I don't have near the experience some of you guys have, but one of the things that kinda freaked me out my first times at sea was just how freakin' dark it can be in the middle of the ocean if the lights go out for any reason. Or if you're in a compartment down below and the lights go out. That is deep cave dark. I never went anywhere without a flashlight.
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My seafaring days were spent either in the engine room surrounded by 4 (only 3 actually ran) 12 cylinder diesel locomotive generators. Talk about smells! Diesel, oils, bilge water (including piss and puke), an olfactory delight for sure! As for sounds, nothing but the drone of the diesels could be heard and felt! In birthing you still heard the diesels, a little, but the big sounds were the waves against the hull and the drone of the shaft that drove the screw (prop) that ran under birthing. In heavy water, the screw would sometimes come out of the water and the drone would shoot up in frequency then drop back down to it's usual steady frequency as you heard improperly secured items sliding back and forth along the deck and the occasional cuss words as someone lost footing and went down or fell into piping/equipment/bunks/whatever.
Bear in mind, this was a "small" ship.
Hope that helps.
My ship, the USS Tringa, ASR-16, Submarine rescue and salvage vessel.
https://youtu.be/mAabOVllpIw
Somewhere out there is video of her in some Heavy weather.
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"In birthing you still heard the diesels..."'
How many children did you give birth to while on ship? :rofl:
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"In birthing you still heard the diesels..."'
How many children did you give birth to while on ship? :rofl:
Depends on how much Govt. Cheese I had for lunch...
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if you're in a compartment down below and the lights go out. That is deep cave dark. I never went anywhere without a flashlight.
You ain't seen or felt "dark" until you've been on a submerged submarine when the lights go out.
Mini-Maglites were still pretty new when I made my first WestPac deployment in 1985 but a large percentage of the crew had one hanging off their belt. Carried one on my next boat in the early '90s as well. By then I knew to have several packs of spare bulbs on board with me.
Talk about smells! Diesel, oils, bilge water (including piss and puke), an olfactory delight for sure!
:rofl:
Ever boarded a sub that has been underway and closed up for a few weeks to a month or so?
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I don't have near the experience some of you guys have, but one of the things that kinda freaked me out my first times at sea was just how freakin' dark it can be in the middle of the ocean if the lights go out for any reason. Or if you're in a compartment down below and the lights go out. That is deep cave dark. I never went anywhere without a flashlight.
Yeah. About three weeks into what would eventually be ten years on the water the ship had an emergency dual reactor shut down. I was of course working in the eating area below decks. Didn’t yet carry two lights everywhere. Pretty dark. We drifted for a day with no power, fun times.
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My ship, the USS Tringa, ASR-16, Submarine rescue and salvage vessel.
https://youtu.be/mAabOVllpIw
Somewhere out there is video of her in some Heavy weather.
Hmmm ...
At 02:50, the captain ordered a right turn to course 045 -- I didn't hear a "Right full rudder" but the helmsman voiced that as if that had been part of the course change order.
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Hmmm ...
At 02:50, the captain ordered a right turn to course 045 -- I didn't hear a "Right full rudder" but the helmsman voiced that as if that had been part of the course change order.
The officer ordered "right full rudder, ahead flank" through the port-hole in front of the helmsman then the helmsman repeated the order as he heeled the wheel over.
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It would be very hard to write a ship for someone who had never did a ship and get them to the atmosphere. I can smell and hear my old ships as much as I can visualize them. No more an eerie place exists when all the normal stops and is replaced by quiet and distant sounds of emergencies going on.
Walking from my car to my bunk.
Pier side, vehicle holds and hangar bay is hydraulic fluid and JP-5 exhaust. A whiff of cigarette smoke as you walked by the conrep station/smoke deck. Brief stink of trash, melted plastic and dirty dishes as you walked by the scullery and trash disposal. Food sitting in the hotbar as you go by the galley. Machinery and grease through a few passageways and then finally the berthing space which was a surprisingly pleasant mix of aftershaves and soaps. Stink was not allowed in the berthing space. The stankbutts who didn't keep themselves clean were exiled to the overflow berthing, 20 frames forward and one deck up.
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Stink was not allowed in the berthing space. The stankbutts who didn't keep themselves clean were exiled to the overflow berthing, 20 frames forward and one deck up.
Or, back in the mid-late 70s, "treated" to a shower where you are scrubbed by your crew-mates with the stiff-ass "potato brushes" from the galley and your stinky clothes are tied to small line secured to the rail on the fantail and the clothes were then thrown over to "wash" in the roiling water aft of the main screw while underway.
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The officer ordered "right full rudder, ahead flank" through the port-hole in front of the helmsman then the helmsman repeated the order as he heeled the wheel over.
I watched it again, and slowed it down to be more certain.
The officer said, "Officer of the deck! Come right, course 0-4-5. Increase speed to flank."
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A helmsman always reports how much rudder is being used when executing a course change. Without a specific rudder order given with the course change a helmsman can choose however much to use, typically determined by the speed and throttle. This is the normal mode of operation.
Citation: I was a helmsman. :P
Speed through the water is an amazing force multiplier. 3 knots I would use full rudder (30 degrees) and still have to wait for it to do something. 5-10 knots would be standard rudder (15 degrees) to get her moving and then ease off to 5 degrees to maintain turn speed and keep the ship from heeling over. At 20 knots I could throw the ship to either side with only half a degree of rudder.
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A helmsman always reports how much rudder is being used when executing a course change. Without a specific rudder order given with the course change a helmsman can choose however much to use, typically determined by the speed and throttle. This is the normal mode of operation.
Citation: I was a helmsman. :P
Speed through the water is an amazing force multiplier. 3 knots I would use full rudder (30 degrees) and still have to wait for it to do something. 5-10 knots would be standard rudder (15 degrees) to get her moving and then ease off to 5 degrees to maintain turn speed and keep the ship from heeling over. At 20 knots I could throw the ship to either side with only half a degree of rudder.
Did you learn that back when you were driving the Saratoga? =D
https://youtu.be/G4qIBT3qr2M?t=20
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Dunno. It's quite possible, but that hasn't been announced. It's also possible that this fledgling author is entirely unaware of that movie, but has come up with a similar idea independently.
That's always a pisser. I've had things obsoleted by changing politics or changing technology.
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As a civilian, I was tasked with a 2 week "cruise" on the Enterprise, Alameda to San Diego and back.
Sometime during the second week, someone must have ordered a turn to port. The turn was made "enthusiastically", so much so that there were reports of broken bones, bruises, tables & chairs piling up on the starboard side of the mess (and such a mess it was!).
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0LgXOzcyTo
Quite interesting and probably will help n your quest for information.