Taking Showers After Work

[Ben]

I just heard a great line by the guy (I forget his name) that is challenging Pelosi for the minority leadership. Regarding dems and why they lost, paraphrased: "We've completely ignored the people who take showers after work".

I thought that was spot on. Having in my younger years worked jobs where the first thing you did when you got home was shower off the grime, the idea of having to work for your money stuck with me even when I transitioned to a career where I (usually) didn't come home sweaty and grimy. That's something that so many of the dems that went from college to Google, Facebook, etc. can't really understand.

[Boomhauer]

Pretty much the biggest reason I will never vote for a liberal is they always, always, always want more, more, more of my hard earned money to pay for their social programs. I'll be goddamned if I'm going to vote for the politicians who brazenly tell me they are going to take my money and give it to *expletive deleted*ers who don't work and have never held a job in their life. Similarly, as the people of WV did, I'm not voting for somebody who pledges to shut my industry down, as Hillary told the coalminers

These overly educated *expletive deleted*s who think they are so smart and have never worked a hard day, who spend their lives in academia and politics, they forget that its people in the flyover areas who make the world run

[RoadKingLarry]

Having in my younger years worked jobs where the first thing you did when you got home was shower off the grime,

While I was working one of my first jobs as a teen my mother would not let me in the house after work. I had to remove all my clothes in the attached garage before I was allowed to come in. I had to pre-stage something to wear from the garage to the bathroom. She also made me rinse my clothes of in a tub out in the yard before I could put them in her washing machine.

I was working at a slaughterhouse.

[Perd Hapley]

Yup. That was my demographic for a long time.

There are reports that Bill Clinton and Joe Biden warned the campaign about ignoring or slighting the blue-collar crowd. You'd think, when Bill Clinton is giving them campaign advice, they'd listen. So awesome that they're paying the price for ignoring the old, white guys.  

I guess I forgot about Bernie Sanders; also on the list of old, white dudes they ignored (thank God).

[tokugawa]

The hell with those commie bastards. I don't give a rip about what they say about the working class, or missing the demographic, or anything else.
 Everything they say is a lie, and the end result of what they want, is a totalitarian police state like Cuba.
 The hell with them. All of them.

[De Selby]

The hell with those commie bastards. I don't give a rip about what they say about the working class, or missing the demographic, or anything else.
 Everything they say is a lie, and the end result of what they want, is a totalitarian police state like Cuba.
 The hell with them. All of them.

Unlike the republicans who tried to sink Trump by working with the democrats?

I'll take a detour here on Cuba.  You do realise it is better to live in than all of its neighbors save the US or euro colony islands, right?  All those "free market" Central American and Caribbean states haven't fared so well.

The Cuban health system delivers population outcomes that are right up there with US measures, more so when you focus on the majority of Americans who aren't millionaires.

[Ben]

The Cuban health system delivers population outcomes that are right up there with US measures, more so when you focus on the majority of Americans who aren't millionaires.

I'll stay unhealthy, thanks. Ends don't justify means.

[T.O.M.]

Once upon a time, I worked for an asphalt paving company.  Yep, shower after work.  Taught me two things.  One, guys who do that kind of work are smarter than people might think.  Math in their heads, problem solving, creative thinking, etc.  Second, it taught me to study harder for law school, as I learned that kind of work wasn't for me long term.

[Scout26]

The Cuban health system delivers population outcomes that are right up there with US measures, more so when you focus on the majority of Americans who aren't millionaires.

Complete and utter bullshit.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/432680/myth-cuban-health-care

[TommyGunn]

Unlike the republicans who tried to sink Trump by working with the democrats?

I'll take a detour here on Cuba.  You do realise it is better to live in than all of its neighbors save the US or euro colony islands, right?  All those "free market" Central American and Caribbean states haven't fared so well.

The Cuban health system delivers population outcomes that are right up there with US measures, more so when you focus on the majority of Americans who aren't millionaires.

Cuba is a decrepit mess, buildings unmaintained, falling apart, garbage piled up in sides trees and cul  de sacs.   Medical services scanty and antiquated.   Other countries might  not be so great  (Venezuela has gone to the crapper since Chavez took over.  I was there in 1970 and it was a beautiful country then)  but I will take the free market over communism any day of the week.
Someday  when I have time I'll regale the forum with what my father found when he was doing business in Moscow.....and what a decrepit cesspool of corruption he found there.
Trust me,   communism stinks.

[De Selby]

Complete and utter bullshit.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/432680/myth-cuban-health-care

What's bs is quoting a polemic to counter a claim about population health.

Why don't you look at actual health indicators instead?

http://www.who.int/gho/countries/cub/country_profiles/en/

Heres a digestible bit written in Forbes:  https://www.google.com.au/amp/www.forbes.com/sites/judystone/2014/12/22/cuba-cost-effective-healthcare/?client=safari

What does the US gain for its vastly greater financial investment? Not so much, it seems. Infant mortality is lower in Cuba and the under 5 year old mortality rate is quite low. Life expectancy is almost identical in the two countries. This is achieved despite huge disparities in wealth. (The only area where mortality is significantly higher in Cuba is that of maternal mortality).

You need to look at actual health outcome statistics, not some screed about Michael Moore.

[De Selby]

Cuba is a decrepit mess, buildings unmaintained, falling apart, garbage piled up in sides trees and cul  de sacs.   Medical services scanty and antiquated.   Other countries might  not be so great  (Venezuela has gone to the crapper since Chavez took over.  I was there in 1970 and it was a beautiful country then)  but I will take the free market over communism any day of the week.
Someday  when I have time I'll regale the forum with what my father found when he was doing business in Moscow.....and what a decrepit cesspool of corruption he found there.
Trust me,   communism stinks.

And despite all this education, health care, and homelessness are far better in Cuba than any of its independent neighbors.

You're talking in screeds.  Check out the literacy, life expectancy, crime, malnourishment, and homelessness rates there compared to any random neighbor.

Try finding a similar culture that does better than Cuba on those measures and post it here.

[roo_ster]

1. Maybe DS has a point...in that Latin American polities can only have good social metrics when run by murderous dictators.

2. Or maybe the metrics coming from a murderous dictatorship might not be all that reliable and claims to wonderful health care outcomes ought to be viewed with a gimlet eye.

[TommyGunn]

And despite all this education, health care, and homelessness are far better in Cuba than any of its independent neighbors.

You're talking in screeds.  Check out the literacy, life expectancy, crime, malnourishment, and homelessness rates there compared to any random neighbor.

Try finding a similar culture that does better than Cuba on those measures and post it here.

I'm talking about what is known.    I've heard what the ex-Cubans have said about Cuba.    I've seen the documentation in photos,  and have been to a few of the islands in that part of the world.   Yup there is poverty in some places,   but on a lot of those small islands there are too many people with too few resources to make it into a gilded paradise.
I'D still prefer many of those places to a Communist hell hole where you can be imprisoned for giving the reigning dictator the middle finger.   In Cuba "crime" is speaking out against the govt.,  or printing a newspaper editorial criticizing the "beloved" leader. 
You might not have to worry about the muggers and pickpockets,  but that doesn't mean the police are there to serve and to protect......if you get the drift.

[De Selby]

1. Maybe DS has a point...in that Latin American polities can only have good social metrics when run by murderous dictators.

2. Or maybe the metrics coming from a murderous dictatorship might not be all that reliable and claims to wonderful health care outcomes ought to be viewed with a gimlet eye.

Murderous is a funny charge as well.  Again, Cuba is no paradise but compare its treatment of dissidents to its neighbours.  Lower body counts and far more predictability than most of the region.

The reason Cuba is in this condition is that Castro wasn't a thieving self-serving maniac like many other leaders in the region.  For the most part, his elites had to be happy with things like decent meat and a car, not palaces and yachts.  The savings from an elite willing to accept less was plowed into education and medicine, which is why Castro died of old age and his government remains more stable than lots of his contemporaries.

In other words, all faults aside, in Castro's government the wealth got shared and the folk got fed.  It was probably one of the most pragmatic approaches a poor country could've taken, and it allowed the .gov to survive all manner of sanctions (because they shared in the lack of flash cash with everyone).

[De Selby]

I'm talking about what is known.    I've heard what the ex-Cubans have said about Cuba.    I've seen the documentation in photos,  and have been to a few of the islands in that part of the world.   Yup there is poverty in some places,   but on a lot of those small islands there are too many people with too few resources to make it into a gilded paradise.
I'D still prefer many of those places to a Communist hell hole where you can be imprisoned for giving the reigning dictator the middle finger.   In Cuba "crime" is speaking out against the govt.,  or printing a newspaper editorial criticizing the "beloved" leader.  
You might not have to worry about the muggers and pickpockets,  but that doesn't mean the police are there to serve and to protect......if you get the drift.

And et you cannot cite a single measure.  See the problem?

Also, can you name a neighbouring country where insulting the government is legal?

Hint:  not only do you get mugged in most Central American states, losing your cojones for insulting the government is entirely possible.  But I guess Castro was satan because he jailed people for speech.

[TommyGunn]

And et you cannot cite a single measure.  See the problem?

What kind of idiot "measure" are you talking about?
How long people live?    How about "how" people live?  Castro and his brother are both murderers.   There are still political prisoners over there.

You want a measure?    I wish I could.....if my 85 year old mother wasn't in a rest home, I'D put her on here and let her tell you about the Cuba she knew before WW2,  which was a far richer, nicer place than it devolved into when the Castro Clowns kicked Battista out and took over.

[De Selby]

What kind of idiot "measure" are you talking about?
How long people live?    How about "how" people live?  Castro and his brother are both murderers.   There are still political prisoners over there.

You want a measure?    I wish I could.....if my 85 year old mother wasn't in a rest home, I'D put her on here and let her tell you about the Cuba she knew before WW2,  which was a far richer, nicer place than it devolved into when the Castro Clowns kicked Battista out and took over.

Okay, where is this place in Central America that has free speech?  What do you think happens to protestors in say Guatemala?

Again with your point, facts tend to speak for themselves.  If Bautista was so great, why did people rise against him en masse and boot him from the country?  And why did they largely celebrate Castro?

It's not that Bautista allowed protests, that's for sure.

[TommyGunn]

Okay, where is this place in Central America that has free speech?  What do you think happens to protestors in say Guatemala?

Again with your point, facts tend to speak for themselves.  If Bautista was so great, why did people rise against him en masse and boot him from the country?  And why did they largely celebrate Castro?

It's not that Bautista allowed protests, that's for sure.

And the Russian citizens celebrated the invading Nazis in WW2.....until they found out what they were, they were sticking flowers down the barrels of their rifles and  MP40s.   You need a better clue about how sociopathic tyrants work.
And I never said Castro was the only one in that region.....just one of the better known ones.
And it isn't "Bautista,"  it's  Battista.

[De Selby]

The Russian citizens celebrated the invading Nazis in WW2.....until they found out what they were, they were sticking flowers down the barrels of their rifles and  MP40s.   You need a better clue about how sociopathic tyrants work.
And I never said Castro was the only one in that region.....just one of the better known ones.
And it isn't "Bautista,"  it's  Battista.

Thanks for the spell check.

Care to explain which if Castro's neighbors is better or even comparable on political dissent?

Russians welcoming Nazis is a nice story, but if it happened it was only in animated films, not real life

[TommyGunn]

Read your history ,  dingbat,   the Nazis being welcomed was  no movie,  it REALLY HAPPENED.
Castro was also welcomed as a liberator until he had power, only then was it made known he was a Communist.
Are you really so bloody ignorant of history?
It's hard to believe you're not putting on an act......

[roo_ster]

Murderous is a funny charge as well.  Again, Cuba is no paradise but compare its treatment of dissidents to its neighbours.  Lower body counts and far more predictability than most of the region.

The reason Cuba is in this condition is that Castro wasn't a thieving self-serving maniac like many other leaders in the region.  For the most part, his elites had to be happy with things like decent meat and a car, not palaces and yachts.  The savings from an elite willing to accept less was plowed into education and medicine, which is why Castro died of old age and his government remains more stable than lots of his contemporaries.

In other words, all faults aside, in Castro's government the wealth got shared and the folk got fed.  It was probably one of the most pragmatic approaches a poor country could've taken, and it allowed the .gov to survive all manner of sanctions (because they shared in the lack of flash cash with everyone).

1. Not funny to those who were murdered and their families & friends, donChe know?

2. Sooner or later, communist robber-gangster states run out of stuff to steal.  The "elites" in Cuba were satisfied with three hots & a cot because that was all there was left after decades of gangster gov't.

3. Given that stats from a dictatorship are notoriously unreliable, looking at the desperate measures Cubans take to leave Cuba gives the observer the impression that all is not wine & roses on the island.  Really, I have not seen desperate Iowans cobble together a makeshift craft to escape the horrors of the Quad Cities.  Or anyone go to desperate lengths to ENTER Cuba.

4. DS, it is hard to gaslight on a topic where large numbers of folk can see the reality.

5. As for other LA countries better than Cuba:

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2016/cuba
FREEDOM STATUS: Not Free
AGGREGATE SCORE: 15
FREEDOM RATING: 6.5
POLITICAL RIGHTS: 7
CIVIL LIBERTIES: 6
Quick Facts

Capital: Havana
Population: 11,139,000
GDP/Capita: $6,789.80
Press Freedom Status: Not Free
Net Freedom Status: Not Free



https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2016/costa-rica
FREEDOM STATUS: Free
AGGREGATE SCORE: 90
FREEDOM RATING: 1.0
POLITICAL RIGHTS: 1
CIVIL LIBERTIES: 1
Quick Facts

Capital: San Jose
Population: 4,832,000
GDP/Capita: $10,415.40
Press Freedom Status: Free
Net Freedom Status: N/A

[De Selby]

1. Not funny to those who were murdered and their families & friends, donChe know?

2. Sooner or later, communist robber-gangster states run out of stuff to steal.  The "elites" in Cuba were satisfied with three hots & a cot because that was all there was left after decades of gangster gov't.

3. Given that stats from a dictatorship are notoriously unreliable, looking at the desperate measures Cubans take to leave Cuba gives the observer the impression that all is not wine & roses on the island.  Really, I have not seen desperate Iowans cobble together a makeshift craft to escape the horrors of the Quad Cities.  Or anyone go to desperate lengths to ENTER Cuba.

4. DS, it is hard to gaslight on a topic where large numbers of folk can see the reality.

5. As for other LA countries better than Cuba:

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2016/cuba
FREEDOM STATUS: Not Free
AGGREGATE SCORE: 15
FREEDOM RATING: 6.5
POLITICAL RIGHTS: 7
CIVIL LIBERTIES: 6
Quick Facts

Capital: Havana
Population: 11,139,000
GDP/Capita: $6,789.80
Press Freedom Status: Not Free
Net Freedom Status: Not Free



https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2016/costa-rica
FREEDOM STATUS: Free
AGGREGATE SCORE: 90
FREEDOM RATING: 1.0
POLITICAL RIGHTS: 1
CIVIL LIBERTIES: 1
Quick Facts

Capital: San Jose
Population: 4,832,000
GDP/Capita: $10,415.40
Press Freedom Status: Free
Net Freedom Status: N/A

That is an excellent comparison.  Costa Rica is second only to Cuba in its embrace of socialism and state managed basic production. 

You are comparing Cuba to the closest thing to Norwegian socialism.  Not surprising that you get such a result.

[roo_ster]

That is an excellent comparison.  Costa Rica is second only to Cuba in its embrace of socialism and state managed basic production. 

You are comparing Cuba to the closest thing to Norwegian socialism.  Not surprising that you get such a result.

And yet costa rica manages roughly a 2x mean income without all the murdery bits.

[De Selby]

And yet costa rica manages roughly a 2x mean income without all the murdery bits.

There is far more murder and crime in Costa Rica than Cuba.

It is certainly better than Cuba, though.  I just don't see how it makes the point that socialist medicine and education are the causes of the ills Cuba has.