Dexter and sensationalism

[doc2rn]

Have we sunk to an all time low? This new show, Dexter, making vigilantiism popular. Are we a depraved society or what?

[wooderson]

Not a new show - old show, slightly older novel (which is better than the tv show), cleaned up for network TV.

You think a show about a cold-blooded psychopath who's trained himself to only kill acceptable victims (in part to simply avoid being caught) is pro-vigilantism?

I would have liked the show far more if it had made Dexter a more likable, human character and took more interest in the vigilantism. Gets kind of dull watching a guy with zero personality.

[Bogie]

Hey, a lot of sociopaths HAVE zero personality. They learn their personality by watching people, and acting in a mirror, etc...

There's nothing on the inside but a pragmatic "I want this, so I'm going to do this" being... The sociopaths who get caught are the ones who combine it with other freakiness. Some just keep going and going...
 

[roo_ster]

I saw a sample of the show on Showtime while on business travel.

I was more put off by the sympathetic portrayal of the serial killer part of his psyche than his vigilantism, though it was troubling, too.

I wondered what sort of person comes up with that sort of show idea.  Is it a morally jaded person or a morally inexperienced person who has never really encountered Really Bad Folks?

[RevDisk]

Have we sunk to an all time low? This new show, Dexter, making vigilantiism popular. Are we a depraved society or what?

Dunno.  I've watched both seasons, and own all three books.  First season was better than the first book in my opinion, which is rare.  I like the character of Dexter moreso because he is trying to become more than he was.  If you watch the show, he starts off as your basic sociopath with no emotional attachments.  Then he starts to bond with his girlfriend and her children, and to show real feelings regarding their well being.  First TV series involving 'emotional growth' I found interesting.

Sure, Dexter is a vigilante.  But it's strictly because he's a serial killer and needs to off someone.  So his foster father teaches him to off bad people instead of random strangers. 

[Bogie]

Is it a morally jaded person or a morally inexperienced person who has never really encountered Really Bad Folks?

Could just be someone who watches the news...

And wondered... "What would happen if one of these Really Bad Folks decided to go after the other Really Bad Folks...?"
 

[RevDisk]

Is it a morally jaded person or a morally inexperienced person who has never really encountered Really Bad Folks?

Could just be someone who watches the news...

And wondered... "What would happen if one of these Really Bad Folks decided to go after the other Really Bad Folks...?"

As someone who has seem bad folks go after other bad folks, I can provide an answer.  "Much entertainment."

[Regolith]

And wondered... "What would happen if one of these Really Bad Folks decided to go after the other Really Bad Folks...?"

We already have that.  It's called gang warfare.

[Perd Hapley]

Hasn't America always had a taste for vigilantism? 

[HankB]

What I found disturbing is that Dexter likes to torture his victims - it gives him pleasure.

Charles Bronson's character in the Death Wish movies, as well as Jodi Foster's in the more recent movie The Brave One, were vigilantes . . . but they didn't revel in the bad guys' blood; they just quickly killed genuinely bad people who needed killing, and as such, they were easy to admire and - dare I say - identify with. Both of these characters would be perfectly happy - eager, in fact - to peacefully go about their business as long as everyone else did, too.

Dexter, on the other hand, is a sicko who needs to kill & torture - he revels in it - and he's no less a sicko because his foster father pointed him at bad guys.

[longeyes]

Symptomatic of the culture.  When our "heroes" are psychopathic serial killers, we might be in deep, deep trouble.

[wooderson]

He's not a hero, he's an anti-hero.

[roo_ster]

wooderson:

I agree with the anti-hero bit.

Still, H/A-H aside, he is the protagonist.  He is they guy you're supposed to root for.  Hooray for the serial killer!

[wooderson]

I'm not sure you are supposed to root for him - the series is plenty conflicted on that matter (particularly the second season). In the first, you root for him to catch the other serial killer, as he's the lesser evil - but they never sidestep the fact that he is evil and constantly fighting his desire to kill whatever's in front of him.

There's a long line of fictional protagonists who set out to take care of thsoe those who "need killin'" - because it's also a common refrain from people when they read about or see some particularly heinous act (or even a not-so-heinous act - how many gun forum posters pipe up with "shoulda shot him" for common burglary?). It's a nifty tack to make that stock character dealing out divine retribution a piece of evil himself. (Just too bad it makes for pretty dull TV at times.)

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

See the Godfather trilogy. All three are about a guy who runs a crime family. Some of those crimes are plain-ol' murder... it's just the writers/directors/whatever playing with an idea of an 'evil' hero.

[Iain]

Is it just me or are we supposed to identify with Dexter - an outsider looking in, bemusedly trying to make sense of what the other humans are doing, thinking, feeling.

I dug this up because I'm now in series two and slightly more troubled by the programme than I was when watching series one. Initially hated the idea, only watched it at all because of Michael C Hall and Julie Benz (liked them in early Six Feet Under and Buffy respectively).

The idea troubles me, but he clearly appeals because he can do without any regret or feeling what we want someone to do. The impact of acts anything like that on a normal human being should be catastrophic, and I suspect that the Doakes character is there to remind us of that.

I read a news story the other day about an 18 year old already in prison for murder who has now been convicted of ordering a machete attack on someone and listening to it over the telephone from in prison. The victim survived, but the two guilty parties took pleasure in the act. Dexter exists because we don't really know how to deal with that, without getting blood on our own hands, or outsourcing that blood to another human being who is likely to be deeply affected.

[Dntsycnt]

Either Dexter is twisted evidence of the ever-present Degredation of Society, or the character is a clever new angle on tired story formulas.

Not everything can be Captain Commando blasting away the Bad Guys.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

If nothing else, Dexter is an interesting and new story.  It's been an awfully long time since there was anything even slightly new or unique or novel to see on TV.

I can understand why some people may not like the story.  But it's just fiction, and it's easy enough to turn off if you don't like what you're seeing.

[Leatherneck]

You watch fiction TV? Why?

If it's for relaxation, and this show isn't relaxing, then do the obvious. There are lots of great books around.

TC

[Jamisjockey]

And wondered... "What would happen if one of these Really Bad Folks decided to go after the other Really Bad Folks...?"

We already have that.  It's called gang warfare.

Or prison.

[keeleon]

I will add a +1 to "it's only a tv show".  You can look at practically any TV show with a critical eye, and come away with "bad morals" and "sensationalism".  We are not supposed to identify with him, nor are we really even supposed to like him.  He doesn't like himself, and that is one of the great points about the show.  If anything we are supposed to feel sorry for him.  He wants to be normal but he can't.  He doesn't understand why people feel the way that they do.  Yes, he is a sadistic torturous sociopath, but that is also the point of the show, that we all have things that we "like" and "feel", and that just happens to be it for him, and he can't and doesn't really want to change it.  It is a very unique concept, and if the concept bothers you then definitely don't watch it.  But what about any other HBO show, like the Sopranos or the Tudors.  People want to watch things that don't happen in their real lives.  That's why it's called entertainment and not the "this is how you should act in real life show".  Did Batman "sensationalize" vigilantism?  Obviously he handles things from a different moral perspective, but he still does the same basic thing.

Personally I really enjoy anything with sociopathic, cold villains and anti heroes.

[Matthew Carberry]

Note also that he doesn't just "go after bad guys", but per his father's rules he only goes after bad guys that there is sufficient evidence to convict but that the police are either not aware of or able to act against for a variety of reasons.

Limits the chance of erroneously killing the innocent.

[SomeKid]

So, when does this show come on, and what are the books?

[Dntsycnt]

The first book is called Darkly Dreaming Dexter.

[LadySmith]

I finally watched season one of Dexter.
I enjoyed it because it was different. I don't root for him because of what he is, but sometimes for what he does. I don't recall seeing examples of him enjoying torture. His ritual is pretty methodical. I get the sense that the audience is supposed to watch him with the same emotional disconnect that his character watches us.

Also, Dexter reminds me of Sindawe.