Author Topic: whale wars  (Read 5616 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: whale wars
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2009, 09:04:05 PM »
Yup.  They're only harrassing the illegal whalers who are harvesting in sovereign/territorial waters without permission.

We sometimes lose sight of that when creating duplicate threads here at APS.  ;)

who declared those waters sovreign?


History

Establishment of the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary was agreed upon by the IWC in 1994 with 23 countries supporting the agreement and only Japan opposing it.

The status of the Southern Ocean Sanctuary is reviewed and open to change by the IWC every 10 years.[1] During the 2004 meeting a proposal was made by Japan to remove the sanctuary, but it failed to reach the 75% majority required (it received 25 votes in favour and 30 votes against with two abstentions).

As sanctuaries only apply to commercial whaling, Japan has continued to hunt whales inside the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary because its whaling is done in accordance with a provision in the IWC charter permitting whaling for the purposes of scientific research (Japan also lodged a formal objection to the sanctuary with regard to minke whales, meaning that, in accordance with IWC rules, the terms of the sanctuary do not apply to Japan with respect to minkes).[2] The catch of the 2005 season (Dec 05-Mar 06) inside the sanctuary included 856 minke whales and ten of the endangered Fin whale. In 2007 - 2008 Japan planned to take 935 minke whales and 50 fin whales. those waters sovereign?History

Establishment of the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary was agreed upon by the IWC in 1994 with 23 countries supporting the agreement and only Japan opposing it.

The status of the Southern Ocean Sanctuary is reviewed and open to change by the IWC every 10 years.[1] During the 2004 meeting a proposal was made by Japan to remove the sanctuary, but it failed to reach the 75% majority required (it received 25 votes in favour and 30 votes against with two abstentions).

As sanctuaries only apply to commercial whaling, Japan has continued to hunt whales inside the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary because its whaling is done in accordance with a provision in the IWC charter permitting whaling for the purposes of scientific research (Japan also lodged a formal objection to the sanctuary with regard to minke whales, meaning that, in accordance with IWC rules, the terms of the sanctuary do not apply to Japan with respect to minkes).[2] The catch of the 2005 season (Dec 05-Mar 06) inside the sanctuary included 856 minke whales and ten of the endangered Fin whale. In 2007 - 2008 Japan planned to take 935 minke whales and 50 fin whales.History

Establishment of the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary was agreed upon by the IWC in 1994 with 23 countries supporting the agreement and only Japan opposing it.

The status of the Southern Ocean Sanctuary is reviewed and open to change by the IWC every 10 years.[1] During the 2004 meeting a proposal was made by Japan to remove the sanctuary, but it failed to reach the 75% majority required (it received 25 votes in favour and 30 votes against with two abstentions).

As sanctuaries only apply to commercial whaling, Japan has continued to hunt whales inside the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary because its whaling is done in accordance with a provision in the IWC charter permitting whaling for the purposes of scientific research (Japan also lodged a formal objection to the sanctuary with regard to minke whales, meaning that, in accordance with IWC rules, the terms of the sanctuary do not apply to Japan with respect to minkes).[2] The catch of the 2005 season (Dec 05-Mar 06) inside the sanctuary included 856 minke whales and ten of the endangered Fin whale. In 2007 - 2008 Japan planned to take 935 minke whales and 50 fin whales.

Dispute over legality

Japan has argued that the establishment of the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary was in contravention of the International Convention for the Regulation of Whaling (ICRW) on which the IWC is based and is therefore illegal, and several prominent legal experts have agreed. While there is no settlement procedure in the IWC for this type of dispute, Japan has asked the IWC to submit its case to a relevant legal body for analysis, which the IWC has refused to do.[3]
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: whale wars
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2009, 09:09:23 PM »
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

BlueStarLizzard

  • Queen of the Cislords
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,039
  • Oh please, nobody died last time...
Re: whale wars
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2009, 03:23:57 PM »
so basically japanese 'scientist' are killing whales in a sancuaray and getting away with it due to loopholes, so the 'envornmentalist' are acting like jerks and trying to activly sabotoage the japanese boats in a manner thats gonna get someone killed.  =|

which results in the 'envornmentalist' losing respectiabilty, which loses them credibility, which means no one is gonna take them seriously, which means their not actually gonna acomplish the goal of getting enough of the right pressure to shut down the japanese 'scientist' who come off looking like decent folks just doing their jobs.  :rolleyes: stupidity, thy name is 'envornamental activist'.
"Okay, um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm angry, and I'm armed, so if you two have something that you need to work out --" -Malcolm Reynolds

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: whale wars
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2009, 05:32:22 PM »
so far the iwc won't take it before a court.  and Australia is stretching it to claim those water those  waters

as far as i know no legal body has supported the folks rejected from greenpeace for being too extreme
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

BlueStarLizzard

  • Queen of the Cislords
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,039
  • Oh please, nobody died last time...
Re: whale wars
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2009, 06:11:48 PM »
i get that.

the thing that makes it so darn stupid is that they might actually get public support for their mission to save the whales IF they wern't acting like idiots with destructive actions.

in fact thats the whole thing about the majority animal and envornmental activist that bugs the crap out of me. a lot of things they fight for i actually do agree with, BUT they take it beyond actually doing a good thing and ruin it, by getting all irrational about it. and becuase of that, the good ideas go right under the railroad with the crazy.
"Okay, um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm angry, and I'm armed, so if you two have something that you need to work out --" -Malcolm Reynolds

never_retreat

  • Head Muckety Muck
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,158
Re: whale wars
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2009, 11:07:51 PM »
So lets see mother ship puts up net to stop poo from being flung.
People riding around in ribs in the arctic ocean trying to fling poo.

Why not just droop poo via chopper?
I needed a mod to change my signature because the concept of "family friendly" eludes me.
Just noticed that a mod changed my signature. How long ago was that?
A few months-mods

RocketMan

  • Mad Rocket Scientist
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,625
  • Semper Fidelis
Re: whale wars
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2009, 01:17:08 AM »
Maybe they need to start going after cruise ships.
A cruise ship returned to port with a rare whale pinned to its bow.

http://content.usatoday.com/travel/cruises/item.aspx?type=blog&ak=68495391.blog&poe=HFMostPopular
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

LadySmith

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,166
  • Veni, Vidi, Jactavi Calceos
Re: whale wars
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2009, 03:54:06 AM »
in fact thats the whole thing about the majority animal and envornmental activist that bugs the crap out of me. a lot of things they fight for i actually do agree with, BUT they take it beyond actually doing a good thing and ruin it, by getting all irrational about it. and becuase of that, the good ideas go right under the railroad with the crazy.

I'm right with you there.

Their movements go from something I can get behind, such as stopping the unnecessary torture and killing of animals to setting animals free that have no chance of survival in the wild to destroying property and threatening human lives.

The tangent of theirs that really gets me is the belief that we shouldn’t have pets.
Oh yeah? They want the cats, donkeys, snakes, rats, mice, guinea pigs and dog that I've personally rescued?
Molon Labe! >:D
Rogue AI searching for amusement and/or Ellie Mae imitator searching for critters.
"What doesn't kill me makes me stronger...and it also makes me a cat-lover" - The Viking
According to Ben, I'm an inconvenient anomaly (and proud of it!).

seeker_two

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,922
  • In short, most intelligence is false.
Re: whale wars
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2009, 07:44:17 AM »
The same caliber for APS members, or soon-to-be former members of APS who condone shooting people for something other than legitimate, self-defense motives?


Considering the actions of this group, I think that some legitimate, self-defense motives do apply....like armed escorts....not hunter/killer teams....
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: whale wars
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2009, 03:30:08 PM »
so far it seems that there is much restraint.  i know those hoses can be turned up.  the lrads are an escalation but i'd have been bear spraying or some pepperballs from a paintball gun
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

BlueStarLizzard

  • Queen of the Cislords
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,039
  • Oh please, nobody died last time...
Re: whale wars
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2009, 03:50:03 PM »


The tangent of theirs that really gets me is the belief that we shouldn’t have pets.



do not get me started! nevermind the fact that most those animals would be long extinct becuase they NEED humans to survive, that they exsist becuase of humans. they are DOMESTICATED!!!!

i mean really, would there be cows is not for hamburgers or would people have horses anymore if not for the sport rider!
"Okay, um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm angry, and I'm armed, so if you two have something that you need to work out --" -Malcolm Reynolds

freedom lover

  • resident high school student
  • Senior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 745
  • "Who is the Coon?"
Re: whale wars
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2009, 05:33:25 PM »
i mean really, would there be cows is not for hamburgers or would people have horses anymore if not for the sport rider!

That's true. The original wild animals from which cattle and horses were domesticated have been hunted to extinction. Mustangs only exist because they are protected; burros and longhorns because they live in terrain where people don't.

BlueStarLizzard

  • Queen of the Cislords
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,039
  • Oh please, nobody died last time...
Re: whale wars
« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2009, 06:19:12 PM »
That's true. The original wild animals from which cattle and horses were domesticated have been hunted to extinction. Mustangs only exist because they are protected; burros and longhorns because they live in terrain where people don't.

there are very few wild horses in the world (and i dont' quite count mustangs or any of the other wild herds in america, as they are decendents of domesitcated horses brought to america by the conquestadors) and the few that do exist would be gone without protective mesures.

also, when it comes to dogs, they are not even close to their wild conterparts anymore. many breeds can not survive without human help (like the modern american and english bullsdogs that can not breed naturally for the most part) they have been domesticated for so long that they can only exist with humans. yes, dogs go ferel and their are wild dogs, but they usually cause more trouble then the domesticated ones. furthermore, we HAVE lost breeds already and without concentrated effort of breeders we would have lost a lot more over the years. the borzi, the bull mastif and the Lowchen would be gone if not for the breeders that animal rights activist villify at every turn. other breeds have been recreated or saved only by trying to recreate the original mix.
AND all of them would not be in this world if not for being PETS.
"Okay, um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm angry, and I'm armed, so if you two have something that you need to work out --" -Malcolm Reynolds