Author Topic: The Last Centurion by John Ringo  (Read 21181 times)

freakazoid

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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2013, 08:32:14 PM »
Ringo's characters aren't just action heroes. They're builders. They are faced with a massive problem with combined cultural, logistical, and security facets. They come up with a plan, and work it. They adapt to problems and bring in key people as they find them. You see this in the Keldara books, Graveyard Sky, Last Centurion and the other books which I cannot recall the name of but it's about the battle station in space. I love reading them. They are formulaic after a fashion but pretty engaging for my mind.

EDIT: Someone wrote a blog post about it once. It may have been Tam.


That's not what I was thinking it would of been. :angel:
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RevDisk

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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2013, 08:38:30 PM »
All of what you say applies only to one series by Ringo and one book by Kratman and it isn't even close to true with Kratman. 

The "oh john Ringo no!" article covers it better than I could. Mr Ringo agreed and endorsed it.


I will give the man credit for that acknowledgement. Few people have the integrity to be honest when reviewed like that.
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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2013, 05:06:29 AM »
The "oh john Ringo no!" article covers it better than I could. Mr Ringo agreed and endorsed it.


I will give the man credit for that acknowledgement. Few people have the integrity to be honest when reviewed like that.

As long as you're claiming both that I'm a Nazi and that integrity matters to you, would you care to actually make the case that I'm a Nazi?  You don't have to meet any high standard of evidence; a simple preponderance will do. Note that making your case will be complicated by the brown wife, and my own partially Slavic, Jewish, and Gypsy ancestry.  In other words, are you one of those "[f]ew people who have the integrity to be honest" when someone calls bullshit?  Hmmm?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 01:26:09 PM by Tom Kratman »

RevDisk

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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2013, 10:13:15 AM »
As long as you're claiming both that I'm a Nazi and that integrity matters to you, would you care to actually make the case that I'm a Nazi?  You don't have to meet any high standard of evidence; a simple preponderance will do. Note that making your case will be complicated by the brown wife, and my own partially Slavic, Jewish, and Gypsy ancestry.  In other words, are you one of those "[f]few people who have the integrity to be honest" when someone calls bullshit?  Hmmm?

Fair enough and good points, I apologize. I would like to point out, you don't seem to go out of your way to lead folks away from that impression if they don't know your personal life and details. Which is your right to do and say as you please. But folks can raise an eyebrow and make perhaps unwarranted assumptions (yes, yes, I know, point proven here) in return.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 10:16:16 AM by RevDisk »
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Jocassee

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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2013, 10:44:32 AM »
And we have just been Kratman'd. Welcome to our humble corner of the internet.  [ar15]
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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2013, 10:52:34 AM »
JD

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Tom Kratman

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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2013, 12:59:45 PM »
Fair enough and good points, I apologize. I would like to point out, you don't seem to go out of your way to lead folks away from that impression if they don't know your personal life and details. Which is your right to do and say as you please. But folks can raise an eyebrow and make perhaps unwarranted assumptions (yes, yes, I know, point proven here) in return.

Which goes back to my original question, what evidence is there of any of that?  A book wherein the one unrepentent Nazi shown is shot down like a dog at the end by the hero, a former SS man who converted to Judaism, postwar?  This is proof of Nazism sufficient that I need to go out of my way to rebut it?  Isn't _that_ a *expletive deleted* fascinating concept, kill the Nazi and you are a Nazi?  And, since you didn't key on that, it would appear you've made the charge based on a book you didn't even read, eh?  So just what the *expletive deleted* are you, or any other "folk," raising an eyebrow over?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 01:25:35 PM by Tom Kratman »

Fitz

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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2013, 01:14:56 PM »
Which goes back to my original question, what evidence is there of any of that?  A book wherein the one urepentent Nazi shown is shot down like a dog at the end by the hero, a former SS man who converted to Judaism, postwar?  This is proof of Nazism sufficient that I need to go out of my way to rebut it?  Isn't _that_ a *expletive deleted* fascinating concept, kill the Nazi and you are a Nazi?  And, since you didn't key on that, it would appear you've made the charge based on a book you didn't even read, eh?  So just what the *expletive deleted* are you, or any other "folk," raising an eyebrow over?

If this is how you react to an apology, you may not want to hang around here no more.

Go check out the title of the website.
Fitz

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Tom Kratman

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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2013, 01:23:04 PM »
If this is how you react to an apology, you may not want to hang around here no more.

Go check out the title of the website.

I saw that.  So?  I am still annoyed.  Calling someone a Nazi on zero evidence and then citing to the zero evidence as reason to call someone a Nazi strikes me as something less than a full apology.

Fitz

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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2013, 01:27:28 PM »
I saw that.  So?  I am still annoyed.  Calling someone a Nazi on zero evidence and then citing to the zero evidence as reason to call someone a Nazi strikes me as something less than a full apology.

Friend, if you are annoyed by everyone who may take issue with a piece of your writing, you may want to avoid

A.) The internet

B.) writing.
Fitz

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You are all awful people. I mean this *expletive deleted*ing seriously.

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Tom Kratman

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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2013, 01:31:04 PM »
Friend, if you are annoyed by everyone who may take issue with a piece of your writing, you may want to avoid

A.) The internet

B.) writing.

Ah, but he didn't take issue with anything I wrote, since nothing I wrote supports the notion of me being a Nazi. He took issue with _me_, accusing _me_ of something vile, then responded with a mealy mouthed pseudo-apology.  So, is your theory that if someone is an author they have thereby forfeited the right to be offended by personal attacks?  That's just fascinating.  Why don't you elaborate?

Fitz

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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2013, 01:40:08 PM »
Ah, but he didn't take issue with anything I wrote, since nothing I wrote supports the notion of me being a Nazi. He took issue with _me_, accusing _me_ of something vile, then responded with a mealy mouthed pseudo-apology.  So, is your theory that if someone is an author they have thereby forfeited the right to be offended by personal attacks?  That's just fascinating.  Why don't you elaborate?

I didn't say you forfeited anything.

I'm offended that you misinterpreted what I wrote.

Let me know where your official website is, so I can jump on and post up my annoyance.


Mealy-mouthed. Ha. Serious? It looked pretty sincere to me.

Your writing may not support you being a Nazi. But it certainly does support you being a *expletive deleted*bag of the highest order.
Fitz

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I have reached a conclusion regarding every member of this forum.
I no longer respect any of you. I hope the following offends you as much as this thread has offended me:
You are all awful people. I mean this *expletive deleted*ing seriously.

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Tom Kratman

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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2013, 01:45:04 PM »
I didn't say you forfeited anything.

I'm offended that you misinterpreted what I wrote.

Let me know where your official website is, so I can jump on and post up my annoyance.


Mealy-mouthed. Ha. Serious? It looked pretty sincere to me.

Your writing may not support you being a Nazi. But it certainly does support you being a *expletive deleted* of the highest order.

Bar.baen.com.  You'll have to register.  I hang out in the kratskeller.

No, a serious apology doesn't continue with the claim that I've given _any_ reason to accuse me of being a Nazi such that, apparently, I have to go around going "out of my way to lead folks from that impression."  If you consider that a serious or sincere apology, _I_ do not.

Oh, yeah, I am an "expletive deleted" of the highest order.  And if someone accuses me of that, "Guilty, as charged."  No apology required.  But I am not a Nazi.  As a matter of fact, i am so not a Nazi...hmmm..you did notice the name, right?  There are few of us.  Why?  because most of us did the all expense paid tour of the camps before going up in smoke.

roo_ster

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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2013, 01:47:18 PM »
Gonna have to side with the interloper.  He's got cause to be chapped.  

Charges of "nazi" and "racist" are easy to fling and have been for years by the Left.  Nowadays, such flinging has migrated to the center and parts of the right, too(1).  It is a disgusting and insulting thing to do and if done, had best be backed up with fact.  Because such an accusation is an attack and most certainly not Polite.




(1) See how cheaply obtained is a feeling of moral superiority...just accuse someone to the right of you of being a racist/nazi/homophobe.  Preen away.
Regards,

roo_ster

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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2013, 01:49:52 PM »
Wow, a double-Godwinning of a thread.

I'm eager to hear Rev's response to this conversation.

That being said, Mr. Kratman, it'd be nice to have another author hang around our little enclave.  We've got a couple here.  This thread isn't representative of the way most of our discussions go.
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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #40 on: September 24, 2013, 01:50:53 PM »
The thing here is, Rev is a long standing member and friend to many folks here who can vouch for him. He's helped a lot of folks out over the years, and while he's not perfect we all know him and generally like him.

You're "just some guy" even if you are a published author, so to step into a small community and 1. attack a well known and liked member and 2. play the role of victim because he said something that hurt your poor widdle fee-fees is probably not a great idea. It's not necessarily what you're doing so much as the way you're doing it.

Also, how much time do you have on your hands that you're trawling the internets looking for things to be offended by?

Roo_: the corollary is that just because the charges are over used don't mean that some folks are not, in fact, actual factual racists. Trying to deny that on the basis of "Well those damn liberals are always saying it so it must never be true" is counter-productive.
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Fitz

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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #41 on: September 24, 2013, 01:52:35 PM »
The thing here is, Rev is a long standing member and friend to many folks here who can vouch for him. He's helped a lot of folks out over the years, and while he's not perfect we all know him and generally like him.

You're "just some guy" even if you are a published author, so to step into a small community and 1. attack a well known and liked member and 2. play the role of victim because he said something that hurt your poor widdle fee-fees is probably not a great idea. It's not necessarily what you're doing so much as the way you're doing it.

Also, how much time do you have on your hands that you're trawling the internets looking for things to be offended by?

Roo_: the corollary is that just because the charges are over used don't mean that some folks are not, in fact, actual factual racists. Trying to deny that on the basis of "Well those damn liberals are always saying it so it must never be true" is counter-productive.

Plus, on APS, when people apologize, others tend to accept it and move on.

Whining is for nazis.
Fitz

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I have reached a conclusion regarding every member of this forum.
I no longer respect any of you. I hope the following offends you as much as this thread has offended me:
You are all awful people. I mean this *expletive deleted*ing seriously.

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Tom Kratman

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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #42 on: September 24, 2013, 01:53:51 PM »
Wow, a double-Godwinning of a thread.

I'm eager to hear Rev's response to this conversation.

That being said, Mr. Kratman, it'd be nice to have another author hang around our little enclave.  We've got a couple here.  This thread isn't representative of the way most of our discussions go.

Hopefully not.  And thanks.  

You might enjoy this: http://www.tomkratman.com/rant2ndamend.html

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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #43 on: September 24, 2013, 01:53:52 PM »
Which goes back to my original question, what evidence is there of any of that?  A book wherein the one urepentent Nazi shown is shot down like a dog at the end by the hero, a former SS man who converted to Judaism, postwar?  This is proof of Nazism sufficient that I need to go out of my way to rebut it?  Isn't _that_ a *expletive deleted* fascinating concept, kill the Nazi and you are a Nazi?  And, since you didn't key on that, it would appear you've made the charge based on a book you didn't even read, eh?  So just what the *expletive deleted* are you, or any other "folk," raising an eyebrow over?

Easy, Mr Kratman. I started getting into the Posleen series (first couple of books were in the Baen free library) and read up to Hell's Faire, according to my tablet which still has it loaded. I skimmed the early parts of both Watch on the Rhine and Cally's War, and lost interest in the series. For me, that's not exactly uncommon with Mr Ringo's series, such as space anime in the Looking Glass series being too painful to continue reading. Mr Ringo is an excellent writer, but then often goes... weird at times. I will cop to not thoroughly reading the book, because the series lost my interest. I also skimmed the beginning of your Bolo short story (when I was reading Mr Laumer's books) involving some human splinter group's er, enthusiastic defense via genocide. I admit to losing interest after that. I started reading A Desert Called Peace, also from the Baen free library, which the hero (whom I don't even really recall) raising yet another ruthless fanatic army bent on being a bit more enthusiastic than generally acceptable these days.

You can blast me for not thoroughly and deeply reading your books, Mr Kratman. But I honestly couldn't get into them. Perhaps in all three, the characters realize their actions are reprehensible and terrible, and seek atonement. Or whatnot. But I couldn't stay engaged to that point. I'm slightly familiar with genocide, and more twitchy than some on the subjects of fanatics. Nothing like digging through a pile of corpses, that include women and children with their hands and feet wire tied, to give an unfavorable opinion on fanatics. I'm not playing the vet card. I'm stating that I tried to give your stories a fair shake, and they didn't hold my particular interest because they looked to be supportive of fanatical behavior in the first quarter or first third of the book/story. On the plus side, I'd say you're not a bad writer. Just not my sort of subjects. I will point out that it's not entirely casual when it seemed to be three times in a row. I drew the impression that you tended to fixate on ruthless, fanatical militaries, and not in a negative fashion.

Hence why I was ready to apologize when my surface impression is apparently wrong. If a book catches my eye, I give it the first quarter to catch my attention. If it doesn't, and it's not always because it's badly written, I move on. After a few times, I tend to draw my opinion. They tend to go into the pile where I buy their books upon release, or I tend to avoid them because of the impression I got. First impressions are a bit of a hard thing to shake, Mr Kratman. I'm willing to concede a first impression, or third impression, as being wrong. But I will repeat, it was based on three first impressions that may have been flawed, but seemed legitimate on the surface from my admittedly unthorough view. You owe me no justification, and your style of writing is your own. I will say that one CAN get an impression you apparently dislike and seem hostile to, via the above mentioned means.
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Fitz

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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #44 on: September 24, 2013, 01:54:20 PM »
Fitz

---------------
I have reached a conclusion regarding every member of this forum.
I no longer respect any of you. I hope the following offends you as much as this thread has offended me:
You are all awful people. I mean this *expletive deleted*ing seriously.

-MicroBalrog

Tom Kratman

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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #45 on: September 24, 2013, 01:56:09 PM »
Easy, Mr Kratman. I started getting into the Posleen series (first couple of books were in the Baen free library) and read up to Hell's Faire, according to my tablet which still has it loaded. I skimmed the early parts of both Watch on the Rhine and Cally's War, and lost interest in the series. For me, that's not exactly uncommon with Mr Ringo's series, such as space anime in the Looking Glass series being too painful to continue reading. Mr Ringo is an excellent writer, but then often goes... weird at times. I will cop to not thoroughly reading the book, because the series lost my interest. I also skimmed the beginning of your Bolo short story (when I was reading Mr Laumer's books) involving some human splinter group's er, enthusiastic defense via genocide. I admit to losing interest after that. I started reading A Desert Called Peace, also from the Baen free library, which the hero (whom I don't even really recall) raising yet another ruthless fanatic army bent on being a bit more enthusiastic than generally acceptable these days.

You can blast me for not thoroughly and deeply reading your books, Mr Kratman. But I honestly couldn't get into them. Perhaps in all three, the characters realize their actions are reprehensible and terrible, and seek atonement. Or whatnot. But I couldn't stay engaged to that point. I'm slightly familiar with genocide, and more twitchy than some on the subjects of fanatics. Nothing like digging through a pile of corpses, that include women and children with their hands and feet wire tied, to give an unfavorable opinion on fanatics. I'm not playing the vet card. I'm stating that I tried to give your stories a fair shake, and they didn't hold my particular interest because they looked to be supportive of fanatical behavior in the first quarter or first third of the book/story. On the plus side, I'd say you're not a bad writer. Just not my sort of subjects. I will point out that it's not entirely casual when it seemed to be three times in a row. I drew the impression that you tended to fixate on ruthless, fanatical militaries, and not in a negative fashion.

Hence why I was ready to apologize when my surface impression is apparently wrong. If a book catches my eye, I give it the first quarter to catch my attention. If it doesn't, and it's not always because it's badly written, I move on. After a few times, I tend to draw my opinion. They tend to go into the pile where I buy their books upon release, or I tend to avoid them because of the impression I got. First impressions are a bit of a hard thing to shake, Mr Kratman. I'm willing to concede a first impression, or third impression, as being wrong. But I will repeat, it was based on three first impressions that may have been flawed, but seemed legitimate on the surface from my admittedly unthorough view. You owe me no justification, and your style of writing is your own. I will say that one CAN get an impression you apparently dislike and seem hostile to, via the above mentioned means.

I don't and didn't blast you for that.  I do and did blast you for making a personal accusation on zero evidence. 

Tom Kratman

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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #46 on: September 24, 2013, 01:58:19 PM »
Plus, on APS, when people apologize, others tend to accept it and move on.

Whining is for nazis.

Whe people actually apologize I do accept it and move on.  When they try to justify it under the merest _form_ of an apology, I do not.  Those are different things.  And, since you are apparently whining about that does that make you a self confessed Nazi?  Just curious.

Fitz

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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2013, 01:59:41 PM »
Whe people actually apologize I do accept it and move on.  When they try to justify it under the merest _form_ of an apology, I do not.  Those are different things.  And, since you are apparently whining about that does that make you a self confessed Nazi?  Just curious.

You assume I am whining, with no evidence of such. Please cite such evidence, and why i need to go out of my way to prove otherwise.

Thanks
Fitz

---------------
I have reached a conclusion regarding every member of this forum.
I no longer respect any of you. I hope the following offends you as much as this thread has offended me:
You are all awful people. I mean this *expletive deleted*ing seriously.

-MicroBalrog

Tom Kratman

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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #48 on: September 24, 2013, 02:01:12 PM »
The thing here is, Rev is a long standing member and friend to many folks here who can vouch for him. He's helped a lot of folks out over the years, and while he's not perfect we all know him and generally like him.

You're "just some guy" even if you are a published author, so to step into a small community and 1. attack a well known and liked member and 2. play the role of victim because he said something that hurt your poor widdle fee-fees is probably not a great idea. It's not necessarily what you're doing so much as the way you're doing it.

Also, how much time do you have on your hands that you're trawling the internets looking for things to be offended by?

Roo_: the corollary is that just because the charges are over used don't mean that some folks are not, in fact, actual factual racists. Trying to deny that on the basis of "Well those damn liberals are always saying it so it must never be true" is counter-productive.

So your theory is that if someone well liked on a board attacks someone - authorial status is fairly irrelevant for this - that someone really ought to just put up with it?  Did my not going along with this hurt you poor widdle fee-fees?

Tom Kratman

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Re: The Last Centurion by John Ringo
« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2013, 02:02:35 PM »
You assume I am whining, with no evidence of such. Please cite such evidence, and why i need to go out of my way to prove otherwise.

Thanks
You simply sound like you're whining to me.  Since the standard of proof here seems to be very low and entirely subjective, that makes you a whiner, which by your own definition makes you a Nazi.