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Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: The Annoyed Man on August 15, 2008, 02:35:27 AM

Title: Troops put money where their mouth is [not allowed to be]
Post by: The Annoyed Man on August 15, 2008, 02:35:27 AM
BusinessWeek http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D92IB6A80.htm (AP):

Quote
Military donations favor Obama over McCain

U.S. soldiers have donated more presidential campaign money to Democrat Barack Obama than to Republican John McCain, a reversal of previous campaigns in which military donations tended to favor GOP White House hopefuls, a nonpartisan group reported Thursday.

Troops serving abroad have given nearly six times as much money to Obama's presidential campaign as they have to McCain's, the Center for Responsive Politics said.

The results also are striking because they favored Obama, who never has served in the military. McCain meanwhile, is a decorated war veteran who spent nearly five years as a prisoner of war in Vietnam. The Arizona senator graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy and had a 22-year career as a naval aviator.

Obama has opposed the war in Iraq and says he would withdraw combat troops within 16 months. McCain has been a steadfast supporter of the war, saying he would withdraw the troops only when conditions on the ground warrant it.

"Obama will work tirelessly to uphold this nation's sacred trust with its veterans, to ensure they are not forgotten after they return home and he will provide our troops with the leadership they deserve, as well as the support they and their families need," Obama spokesman Nick Shapiro said.

McCain's campaign played down the significance of the donations.

"John McCain has been endorsed by more retired admirals and generals than Barack Obama has military donors," McCain spokesman Michael Goldfarb said in a statement.

"We feel confident that many U.S. troops stationed overseas will support John McCain in the election this fall, but we suspect most are too busy doing the important work of defending this country than to make political contributions," Goldfarb said.

The report tracked donations of $200 or more. It found that 859 members of the military donated a total of $335,536 to Obama. McCain received $280,513 from 558 military donors.

Among soldiers serving overseas at the time of their donations, 134 gave a total of $60,642 to Obama while 26 gave a total of $10,665 to McCain. That was less than the amount received by Republican Ron Paul, who collected $45,512 from 99 soldiers serving abroad, the report said.

Well, we all know how treasonous it is be actively serving in the military and denounce military operations, but apparently, the troops know what happens on the political front affects them directly on the war front. I guess McCain's ambiguity as to how long we will be in Iraq scores slightly less with troops overseas than a false promise from Barack that we will be out in 16 months once he is elected. Of course, if you want to tally up the donations that went into Ron Paul's campaign --- seems a lot of servicemen and women are just 'throwing away their money' on someone who has no chance.

Quote from: the article
McCain's campaign played down the significance of the donations.

"John McCain has been endorsed by more retired admirals and generals than Barack Obama has military donors," McCain spokesman Michael Goldfarb said in a statement.

"We feel confident that many U.S. troops stationed overseas will support John McCain in the election this fall, but we suspect most are too busy doing the important work of defending this country than to make political contributions," Goldfarb said.


I've always felt that reality is what you make it . . .

Either way, it looks like being a war veteran isn't as much an issue with the troops as the media puffs it up to be.
Title: Re: Troops put money where their mouth is [not allowed to be]
Post by: HankB on August 15, 2008, 03:38:15 AM
Actually, I can see where troops unhappy with repeated deployments, nutty ROEs, and JAG lawyers looking over their shoulders after every action could be inclined to support someone who promises to get them out at any cost, whether the promise is credible or not.

Add National Guardsmen who resent foreign deployments and soldiers who thought they were through with their service - but got called back - into the mix, and it's not hard to understand these results.
Title: Re: Troops put money where their mouth is [not allowed to be]
Post by: taurusowner on August 15, 2008, 07:22:36 AM
National Guard solider here who is looking forward to a foreign deployment, and I have donated to McCain.
Title: Re: Troops put money where their mouth is [not allowed to be]
Post by: HankB on August 15, 2008, 07:51:40 AM
National Guard solider here who is looking forward to a foreign deployment, and I have donated to McCain.
Do the majority of the other guys (and gals???) in your company/regiment/whatever feel the same way?

(Serious question - I'd rather get the answer from someone actually in the Guard than a talking head on TV.)
Title: Re: Troops put money where their mouth is [not allowed to be]
Post by: taurusowner on August 15, 2008, 07:54:53 AM
I'd say that everyone who pays attention is mostly conservative/republican.  Obviously there are a fair share of 20somethings like myself, and most of this age bracket is either oblivious to politics or way into it. So at least in my unit, I think there those who pay attention and are conservative, and those that don't really pay attention.  I haven't met a single one who is an active conscious Obama supporter/Democrat.  Now granted, I have not spoken to every single person about political leanings.  But it seems whenever the topic comes up in various groups, there are those who vocally support conservatism and those who say things like "fark it, I don't care about that stuff".  I have yet to encounter an ardent and vocal Democrat.
Title: Re: Troops put money where their mouth is [not allowed to be]
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on August 15, 2008, 08:59:26 AM
i'm curious about methodology   how do they track how much is given to who?   pardon my sleptical nature about folks playing games with numbers
Title: Re: Troops put money where their mouth is [not allowed to be]
Post by: Jamisjockey on August 15, 2008, 09:22:46 AM
i'm curious about methodology   how do they track how much is given to who?   pardon my sleptical nature about folks playing games with numbers

Another thing to look at is the amount.  Not too many enlisted guys can afford to donate $200 to anyone.  So you have a whopping 1500 donations over $200 supposedly from military members.  Out of how many serving active right now?
Of that.....only 160ish were actually serving overseas.
And, how many of those are national gaurdsmen with real jobs back in the states.
Again, your average grunt can't afford to give that much to anyone. 
Someone went looking for a molehill to make a mountain out of and wrote a pos hit piece to pass off as journalisim.
Title: Re: Troops put money where their mouth is [not allowed to be]
Post by: RocketMan on August 15, 2008, 09:57:36 AM
i'm curious about methodology   how do they track how much is given to who?   pardon my sleptical nature about folks playing games with numbers

Another thing to look at is the amount.  Not too many enlisted guys can afford to donate $200 to anyone.  So you have a whopping 1500 donations over $200 supposedly from military members.  Out of how many serving active right now?
Of that.....only 160ish were actually serving overseas.
And, how many of those are national gaurdsmen with real jobs back in the states.
Again, your average grunt can't afford to give that much to anyone. 
Someone went looking for a molehill to make a mountain out of and wrote a pos hit piece to pass off as journalisim.

Looking at those numbers made me wonder, as well.  Looks like JamisJockey nailed it.
Title: Re: Troops put money where their mouth is [not allowed to be]
Post by: wmenorr67 on August 16, 2008, 01:50:30 AM
Obama may have gotten more money but McCain gets more on avg.

I am a NG soldier currently finishing up my second year in the sandbox, as most of you know, and in my current unit of 30ish people we have one(1) vocal Obama supporter.
Title: Re: Troops put money where their mouth is [not allowed to be]
Post by: Waitone on August 16, 2008, 02:51:47 AM
I just completed 15 minutes of meatball internet research, something the greenest of green reporters could do in half the time.  Center for Responsive Politics is the daddy rabbit of the website opensecrets.org.  CRP received its original funding from Carnegie Corp of NY, Steve and Michele Kirsch Foundation, Pew Charitable Trust, Proteus Fund, Joyce Foundation and Soros' Open Society. 

That said, the report was based on FEC filings.  Any contribution greater than $200 has to be reported.  The study focused on the 134 contributions greater the $200.  NO ATTENTION WAS PAID TO ANY CONTRIBUTION LESS THAN $200. 

Here is the full report
http://opensecrets.org/news/2008/08/troops-deployed-abroad-give-61.html  If you bother to read it pay particular attention to the comments at the bottom.

As for me?  Opensecrets.org and the CRP perform a necessary function but it is hardly sufficient.  It projects the image of non-partisanship yet its funding is hardly even-steven.  I'll remain skeptical especially until I see the statistics of donations less that $200.  For now I put the study / article into the category of push polling.
Title: Re: Troops put money where their mouth is [not allowed to be]
Post by: Ben on August 16, 2008, 03:52:41 AM
From Waitone's link, I found the quote below in the comments section. Does anyone know if that's accurate? If so, it kinda blows the headline out of the water.


Quote
It should be noted that Barack was only sharing donations with Hillary on the Dem side, while GOP contributions were split five ways. So, though Barack did score relatively impressive 43% of contributions from military abroad, more than 54% went to Republicans. (Full disclosure: my top two prefered candidates only beat Hillary--ouch!) When you calculate the number of contributors, 35% gave to Dems, 65% to GOP.
Title: Re: Troops put money where their mouth is [not allowed to be]
Post by: wmenorr67 on August 16, 2008, 03:54:40 AM
As you can clearly see anyone can twist stats to say whatever it is they want to say.