Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: wmenorr67 on July 20, 2014, 10:03:16 PM
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/07/20/foes-shoot-down-gun-range-in-business-for-73-years/
*expletive deleted*it like this pisses me off. You move in next to a gun range and complain about the noise. Get the *expletive deleted*ck out if you don't like it.
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Nearly every historic racetrack in the northeast (and California)went through the same. People moved in and complained about the dust. Battles and years passed and many of the tracks finally relented and went from dirt to pavement. Then people complained about the noise. Mufflers mandated, curfews implemented, etc. Then it was the race day traffic. Many of those tracks are now shopping malls or subdivisions.
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Nearly every historic racetrack in the northeast (and California)went through the same. People moved in and complained about the dust. Battles and years passed and many of the tracks finally relented and went from dirt to pavement. Then people complained about the noise. Mufflers mandated, curfews implemented, etc. Then it was the race day traffic. Many of those tracks are now shopping malls or subdivisions.
The track my friend used to race at (and where I occasionally crewed on his car) went through that. First the pavement, then the mufflers ... and now no race track.
I know of at least two gun ranges in the state (one public, the other a private club) that are going through the same thing. In the case of the public range, among the "evidence" promulgated by the media to show how dangerous it was included several unfired .308 cartridges that were claimed to have been fired from the range and went over the berms. Sometimes it's not a bad thing when the opposition doesn't know the difference between a cartridge and a bullet ...
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Wisconsin has a Range Protection Act in place to keep such things from happening, but it doesn't stop NIMBY types from still trying.
Several years ago there was an incident at Schultz's Gun Club (AJDual's club) in Muskego. Two guys were there shooting .30 cal somethings. Supposedly a round went over a treeline that's about 75 feet tall out about 150 yards from the benches, then began to lose energy after about 2,000 feet, dropped to a few feet off the ground, then flattened trajectory to go through the front window of a house. It still had the energy to penetrate a cabinet door in the kitchen and lodge itself in a 2"x4".
The NRA brought out ballistics experts who said it couldn't have happened. Nevertheless, the town police chief demanded the club put all sorts of safety measures in place, and there was pressure on the owner of the land to sell it to developers.
I seem to recall it was recently discovered that the errant round was from a drive by shooting or something like that. Maybe AJ can elaborate.
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Wisconsin has a Range Protection Act in place to keep such things from happening, but it doesn't stop NIMBY types from still trying.
Several years ago there was an incident at Schultz's Gun Club (AJDual's club) in Muskego. Two guys were there shooting .30 cal somethings. Supposedly a round went over a treeline that's about 75 feet tall out about 150 yards from the benches, then began to lose energy after about 2,000 feet, dropped to a few feet off the ground, then flattened trajectory to go through the front window of a house. It still had the energy to penetrate a cabinet door in the kitchen and lodge itself in a 2"x4".
The NRA brought out ballistics experts who said it couldn't have happened. Nevertheless, the town police chief demanded the club put all sorts of safety measures in place, and there was pressure on the owner of the land to sell it to developers.
I seem to recall it was recently discovered that the errant round was from a drive by shooting or something like that. Maybe AJ can elaborate.
It was before my time, but word was that the house in question with the impossible rising bullet holes, the guy was raided for selling drugs shortly afterward.
There were reports of rounds going by peoples homes last fall, on the opening day of deer season. Obviously it was poachers or some such activity, like an impromptu sight-in someone was trying to do in their own backyard. The area around the club is relatively suburban, with some legacy farm-fields, but I think some shotgun or bowhunting is still allowed. Anyway, the club was approached about it by the local PD, and the gate logs were produced, as were the camera video feeds showing the club and it's firing line were empty when the shots were reported.
Also, they showed the police the deer stand the club's neighbor had put up right on the fence line above one of our pistol action bay's backstop. ;/ (It got that pistol bay closed for the better part of
The relationship between the club and the "city" has gotten positively chummy since then. There's even agreements to take the city's road/highway construction dirt for our berms if possible.
Anyway, my understanding is that a couple of things have really cemented the club's long term safety.
1. The previously mentioned WI range protection act.
2. The club has bought out all the other members of the land-holding group that owned the club's lands. (The club grew out of five original families fishing/hunting shacks bought together in the 1950's.)
3. The WI DNR has the club's back to some degree now because of it's location on a large marshy lake as wetlands/lowlands, and considers it a low-impact use of the land.
4. The club has bought a few small adjacent properties. They won't do much to increase shooting space, but any added buffer is a good thing.
There's also at least two other busy shotgun/trap clubs on the lake near our club as well, and the area is a massive duck hunting location during the season, so that means our club does not stick out like a sore thumb noise-wise like some other clubs might.
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I'd forgotten about the club buying the land.
I was there when the two guys who supposedly fired the magic bullet were shooting. They didn't seem like yahoos. Just normal shooters.
I'm glad the situation has improved. It was dicey for quite awhile.
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Wisconsin has a Range Protection Act in place to keep such things from happening, but it doesn't stop NIMBY types from still trying.
Several years ago there was an incident at Schultz's Gun Club (AJDual's club) in Muskego. Two guys were there shooting .30 cal somethings. Supposedly a round went over a treeline that's about 75 feet tall out about 150 yards from the benches, then began to lose energy after about 2,000 feet, dropped to a few feet off the ground, then flattened trajectory to go through the front window of a house. It still had the energy to penetrate a cabinet door in the kitchen and lodge itself in a 2"x4".
The NRA brought out ballistics experts who said it couldn't have happened. Nevertheless, the town police chief demanded the club put all sorts of safety measures in place, and there was pressure on the owner of the land to sell it to developers.
I seem to recall it was recently discovered that the errant round was from a drive by shooting or something like that. Maybe AJ can elaborate.
Roughly the same thing happened at my club in West Bend a few years ago, except the magic bullet this time it was a .45 which landed, on a guy's yard. We ended up building a monster pistol berm (the old one was adequate) and implementing a 'no rapid fire' rule. ;/
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Where I shoot (http://tricountygunclub.org/) is out in the middle of no-where, and they're real careful to drill into people the rules that (should) keep stray bullets from leaving the property.
And monster big berms.
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Where I shoot (http://tricountygunclub.org/) is out in the middle of no-where, and they're real careful to drill into people the rules that (should) keep stray bullets from leaving the property.
And monster big berms.
What do you do about magic bullets, though?
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The public range where I shoot now the berm is half a mountain. Its quite aa impressive backstop between the hight and boulders bigger than a good sized house. Anyone on the other side bitching about anything from the range is full of *expletive deleted*it.
The club I used to go to was in the middle of farm country. Never any issues to my knowledge...The safety briefing included a request to not shoot the neighbors cows so they didn't get any grief.
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A bunch of non-local landowners wanted to put in a benchrest range on land they owned and hold matches once a month. Their backstop was well designed, it was the mountain. The local CAVE* chapter showed up and were well armed. Too much traffic, noise upsets the livestock, and the clincher, a landowner was worried about stray bullets coming to his property. First off, it is benchrest. How stray will this bullet be? The landowner was 2 straightline miles behind the berm, that being the aforementioned 1500ft above the valley floor freaking mountain. Without mention that I live in rifle country for deer and if you're hear in November I hope you have your PTSD under control.
*Citizens Against Virtually Everything. There is probably a chapter near you.
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All of this goes back to my hatred for how litigious our society has become, and the ramifications of that litigious nature. All too often, people make decisions not because they are actually liable, but because they fear being sued. I believe that in the OP situation, Con Ed made its decision based (at least in part) because they feared being sued of nuisance abatement. Never mind that the law of nuisance abatement says that a person who moves near the nuisance cannot prevail when later suing to abate that nuisance. Someone in their legal department heard GUNS and feared a jury, and instead of actually defending against an unmerited suit, the company caved.
I see this strategy with ambulance chasers becoming all too common in the other court (not my division). File a suit whether it has merit or not, then push for settlement, hoping the other side will cave and pay out rather than take it to trial. The more this happens, the more people file the claims, and the more defendants rush to settle rather than pay attorney fees. Only solutions are (1) defend against the crap or (2) reform tort law to allow judges to award attorney fees to the defending side if the claim had no merit.
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I don't know when the litigiousness started, but I remember years back when residents near Milwaukee's airport complained to the city about the noise. Even though these people had recently moved to the area, the county had the homes fitted with new, expensive windows for noise abatement. The windows also were better insulated, and easier to clean. State of the art for that time, and probably increased the homes' values.
There's an idea. When one of these people complains about gun range noise, the range can have the home fitted with bulletproof glass.
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Well, I worked in Norfolk/Va Beach for 15 years and the ungrateful chowderheads there liked to complain about jet noise. I'm sorry, that is the sound of your city not going through the recession because there are 80,000 military members and families living here and spending money. Build an airfield in a remote area and pretty soon people are building schools right next to it.
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Well, I worked in Norfolk/Va Beach for 15 years and the ungrateful chowderheads there liked to complain about jet noise. I'm sorry, that is the sound of your city not going through the recession because there are 80,000 military members and families living here and spending money. Build an airfield in a remote area and pretty soon people are building schools right next to it.
"The Noise You Hear, is the Sound of FREEDOM." Posted right outside the Marine air station in Beaufort SC.
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Well, I worked in Norfolk/Va Beach for 15 years and the ungrateful chowderheads there liked to complain about jet noise. I'm sorry, that is the sound of your city not going through the recession because there are 80,000 military members and families living here and spending money. Build an airfield in a remote area and pretty soon people are building schools right next to it.
The place rented in Norfolk was pretty much in a straight line due east of the runway. When aircraft came over the windows and pictures on the walls rattled and my TV would get interference from RADAR altimeters. During the odd airshow they would be so close over the house that sometimes the pilots waved back at the kids playing in the backyard.
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The place rented in Norfolk was pretty much in a straight line due east of the runway. When aircraft came over the windows and pictures on the walls rattled and my TV would get interference from RADAR altimeters. During the odd airshow they would be so close over the house that sometimes the pilots waved back at the kids playing in the backyard.
You must have lived near my uncle when he was stationed there. I recall visiting him (in the 80s) and looking up into the landing gear of C-130s seeming to barely miss the roof of the house. (Not completely sure they were C-130s after 25+ years, but they were large transport planes.)
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My grandparents live under the landing path of an airbase. Still a little distance from it but the C-130s would be really low when they flew overhead. Would shake the windows when they went over. Loud is an understatement.
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My grandparents live under the landing path of an airbase. Still a little distance from it but the C-130s would be really low when they flew overhead. Would shake the windows when they went over. Loud is an understatement.
In the 1960's, the Air Force was flying jets out of Milwaukee's General Mitchell field. We'd get the sonic booms that once shattered a window and another time shattered the picture tube on our TV. It wasn't long before Milwaukee County made them stay subsonic until they were out of the area.