The Lost Drone

[Ben]

Haven't seen a topic on this yet. What do you all think about what happened and what should be done?

Obviously there's way more going on than what's in the news, but from what I've been reading, I'm interested in two things:

1) How the Iranians got it. We say it was a malfunction, they say they used electronic interception. I don't for a second believe the Iranians have the tech for that, but I could believe one of the major powers, that does have the tech, could be helping out behind the scenes.

2) Why is it still in one piece? I suppose we'll never know if our guys were able to fry the internal electronics remotely before the Iranians got it, however there's still the airframe itself. I understand that Obama nixed several Pentagon plans that were presented for destruction of the airframe on Iranian soil. I read Obama doesn't want to do that because he doesn't want it seen as an act of war. However the Iranians have already said the drone use itself was an act of war, so that's already on the table. Again, there's no knowing about how much info on the design is already in the international espionage community. However, an intact, good condition airframe leaves the thing open for stuff like spectro analysis of its physical properties, which could lead to things like learning the composition and percentages of materials in the stealth coating.

So lots of stuff we'll probably never know about, but kind of a bummer we couldn't have destroyed it while it was still in a more remote area more amenable to explosions that result in minimal civilian casualties. Then again, this could all be like that episode of JAG, where they let the Cubans capture a plane with a virus in its software.

[RevDisk]

So lots of stuff we'll probably never know about, but kind of a bummer we couldn't have destroyed it while it was still in a more remote area more amenable to explosions that result in minimal civilian casualties.

Drone overflights are something folks may make talking points over. Bombing Iran OTOH raises the bar quite a bit.

We know Iran funds/equips *expletive deleted*it insurgents in Iraq, and look the other way aside from grumbling.
They know we do overflights and espionage, and look the other way aside from grumbling.

Raising it to actual nation-state bombings would make things a bit more hairy. We can't afford another war at the moment.

[wmenorr67]

Who is to say that we aren't still using it to spy on them?

[bedlamite]

It just seems like it would be a good idea to have a couple ounces of C4 in a few strategic places on those drones for circumstances like this.

[Fitz]

It just seems like it would be a good idea to have a couple ounces of C4 in a few strategic places on those drones for circumstances like this.

This

[AZRedhawk44]

I'm surprised it doesn't have internal shielding in a completely isolated set of circuitry, that once the craft enters hostile air space, a 30 second countdown timer is constantly refreshed as long as the system is considered stable and in contact with its control center.

Lose contact with the communications nest for more than X seconds?  The craft initiates an internal destruction algorithm.  Format all storage systems, initiate small thermite charges over sensitive tech, drop ordnance in inert mode, dead-glide to a landing/crash site (or auger straight-vertical into the ground below it to destroy the airframe).

Yeah, there's still the stealth composite materials, and airframe design.

But the above would mitigate a LOT of potential security risk.

[Fitz]

Trojan horse, perhaps?

Stuxnet 2.0

[HankB]

. . . I could believe one of the major powers, that does have the tech, could be helping out behind the scenes.

Do we use any Chinese microchips in the on-board electronics? 

Trojan horse, perhaps?

Stuxnet 2.0

That would be a really smart thing to do. I wonder if we have anyone smart enough to do it in a position of authority . . .

[longeyes]

Gort.

[Monkeyleg]

There was a caller on Rush Limbaugh's show last week who knew a lot about these drones. She described some of the advanced technological gear on the drone (without going into too much detail), and it was amazing.

She questioned how the Iranians could have found the drone in the first place, since it uses stealth technology and the Iranians don't have radar sophisticated enough to pick it up. She said that if it experienced a power loss it would (or could) glide to a landing. She also questioned why the black box wouldn't be emitting a signal our people would have picked up.

I don't know anything about these drones, but she made a good case for it not just being found by the Iranians. Maybe the Chinese are assisting Iran, or maybe the US wanted it found.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I'm surprised it doesn't have internal shielding in a completely isolated set of circuitry, that once the craft enters hostile air space, a 30 second countdown timer is constantly refreshed as long as the system is considered stable and in contact with its control center.

Lose contact with the communications nest for more than X seconds?  The craft initiates an internal destruction algorithm.  Format all storage systems, initiate small thermite charges over sensitive tech, drop ordnance in inert mode, dead-glide to a landing/crash site (or auger straight-vertical into the ground below it to destroy the airframe).

Yeah, there's still the stealth composite materials, and airframe design.

But the above would mitigate a LOT of potential security risk.

but add the risk of an inconvenient boom near our guys by accident

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

We say it was a malfunction, they say they used electronic interception. I don't for a second believe the Iranians have the tech for that, but I could believe one of the major powers, that does have the tech, could be helping out behind the scenes.

Is 'electronic interception' code for 'jamming'? Because jamming is easy when you have government resources. It just takes the proper equipment and a strong power source. Satellites are many miles away (hundreds?) so overwhelming their signal with your (garbage) signal is not too hard.
http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/drone-wars-not-quite-0

[RoadKingLarry]

Jammnig signals aren't that hard to create. Just throw enough broad spectrum "noise" out at a high enough power level and you've pretty well got it covered.

[Tallpine]

I'm surprised that the drone didn't just auger in from a bug in it's software 

[kgbsquirrel]

Jammnig signals aren't that hard to create. Just throw enough broad spectrum "noise" out at a high enough power level and you've pretty well got it covered.

That's referred to as brute force jamming, but it doesn't work against some of our more agile and evasion transmission methods. Those require a lot more finesse in order to block, presuming you can even locate the signal to start with.

[slingshot]

I think the "war" has already begun with Iran.  Who do you think has made these explosions, a killing of a top nuclear scientist, the computer virus, and so forth?  The war will be Obama's bid for re-election.

I have always wondered if our drones and military experience these lapses in GPS satalite coverage like my GPS does?  Only seems to happen when you actually need it as opposed to rolling along the interstate with next turn in 42.5 miles...

[kgbsquirrel]

I think the "war" has already begun with Iran.  Who do you think has made these explosions, a killing of a top nuclear scientist, the computer virus, and so forth?  ...

Israel. 

[Tallpine]

Maybe the AI on the drone decided to defect...?   

[Waitone]

IF Iran has an intact device, one would have to conclude someone other than the US grabbed control.  I'll leave it to the reader to assemble a list of suspects.  Not a good omen.

[Fly320s]

My take on it:

1.  The Chinese hacked the signal and took control. The US has already acknowledged that other drones have been hacked. 
2.  According to another article I read, that drone is designed to find a suitable place to land when contact is lost.  If true, that would explain why it is mostly in one piece if it wasn't already "hijacked."
3.  The Iranians don't need to see the drone on radar.  Once it is hacked, the controller knows where it is and where he landed it.  Then, a simple phone call will direct the Iranians to it.

[MechAg94]

I was always curious how they would prevent these remote drones from being hacked.  It would seem to be a primary requirement for use against any half way tech advanced country.

[MicroBalrog]

1) How the Iranians got it. We say it was a malfunction, they say they used electronic interception. I don't for a second believe the Iranians have the tech for that, but I could believe one of the major powers, that does have the tech, could be helping out behind the scenes.

The Avtobaza systems the Russians supplied can supposedly do this.

[AJ Dual]

The Avtobaza systems the Russians supplied can supposedly do this.

Jam? Yes. I think that's at least possible.

Hack? I doubt it. I would suspect that the encryption the drone uses is rather strong, and there's probably some sort of electronic version of a one-time pad that is synched before launch that makes it unbreakable.

The whole thing is rather suspicious. The drone looks surprisingly intact. The whole "find a suitable place to land" programming makes some sense, but in an enemy country? I'd think that while it might have a database of suitable flat places to put down in an emergency, I doubt it has vision systems, radar, etc. that can actually pick out a completely tree, rock, or debris-free path to land on.

And why is Iran hiding the undercarriage from view?

- Because we did lose a drone, but it's smashed, and this is a mockup for propaganda purposes, and they don't have reliable intel on what the undercarriage looks like, and don't want it called out as a fake. And maybe Obama was just calling their bluff by asking for it back?

- If it is real, it's covered because something about the undercarriage would give away how they got the drone down?

Like Fitz, I too wonder if this is some sort of ploy to get Iran/Russia/China infected with 'Stuxnet 2.0'.  

There's major stuff here in the story that just... does... not... add... up... Both on Iran's and Uncle Sugar's side of things. And it's just a gut feeling, but when things "get complicated" I'll give the advantage to the more advanced and technically savvy nation.

Hell, if I were No-Such-Agency, I'd be ordering fake drones, and dropping/crashing them all over enemy countries. I'd fill them with all sorts of gonzo head-scratcher stuff, like a tube of magnets and wires where the jet turbine should be, tanks of liquid carbon dioxide, and fill it with fiber optics, and instead of microchips, have junk circuit boards with little crystals mounted in them that I'd gathered up from the Smithsonian gift shop's "box o rocks".  Add in a mix of fake squiggly alien writing on some of the parts too with a mix of bogus U.S. NSN's.

[Monkeyleg]

Hell, if I were No-Such-Agency, I'd be ordering fake drones, and dropping/crashing them all over enemy countries. I'd fill them with all sorts of gonzo head-scratcher stuff, like a tube of magnets and wires where the jet turbine should be, tanks of liquid carbon dioxide, and fill it with fiber optics, and instead of microchips, have junk circuit boards with little crystals mounted in them that I'd gathered up from the Smithsonian gift shop's "box o rocks".  Add in a mix of fake squiggly alien writing on some of the parts too with a mix of bogus U.S. NSN's.

I like the way you think.

[MillCreek]

Plus a nice stencil on the bottom:

If found, please drop in the nearest mailbox and return to Area 51.