Cop tasers 10 year old boy for...

[Ben]

I try to avoid cop bashing, because I figure police populations are pretty similar to general populations wherever they are - around 80% decent people and 20% jackasses. Where I have a problem is with responses to incidents like this one - and not just by the police dept involved, but the DA's office and all others in that local government.

A police officer doing something negligent or stupid should be no different than any other citizen doing something negligent or stupid. For a case like this, what would the police and District Attorney response be if, say a guy was showing the neighborhood kids his new taser, being negligent and acting like it was a toy, and then accidentally shooting his neighbor's son and instead of calling EMS, just pulling the probes out himself and trying to minimize the incident? Would they look at giving him the equivalent of a three day suspension, or would they prosecute him for a misdemeanor or felony crime ? If the latter, the officer in this case should face the same potential criminal consequences (I'm sure the civil consequences cannot be avoided here).

[HankB]

^^^^^^^^^
What Ben said.

A cop should face at least the same consequences for his misconduct that a private citizen would face for the same misconduct; I'm quite certain that if I were to taze a neighboring 10 year old for not cleaning my car, I'd be facing more - a LOT more - than a 3 day suspension from work.

[T.O.M.]

^^^^^^^^^
What Ben said.

A cop should face at least the same consequences for his misconduct that a private citizen would face for the same misconduct; I'm quite certain that if I were to taze a neighboring 10 year old for not cleaning my car, I'd be facing more - a LOT more - than a 3 day suspension from work.

As probably the only member who has presented cases against police officers to a grand jury, I can say that it does happen.  A lot more than anyone knows, because of the secrecy of grand jury proceedings.  Or, at least it did in my office.  And like Ben said, 80% good, 20% bad (unless the group is lawyers...)

All this said, I'd also look at the civil complaint's allegations as being exaggerated.  Civil complaints always exaggerate the facts to justify the high damages amount.  My wife does civil law, and it often amazes me how often plaintiff lawyers just outright lie in a complaint to justify jacking up demands for damages, especially punitive damages.

[Viking]

Taser my kid like that....and Officer Friendly will know what it is like to be tasered in the colon....

Why colon, when there's a pair of (miniature) testicles to zap?

[Tallpine]

So, was that cop the only one on that schoolground professional enough to handle a taser 

 

[geronimotwo]

and it came out of the holster, why?

[makattak]

I take the police officer at his word as I find it extremely hard to believe he planned on tasering the child.

That means he has admitted to horsing around with a weapon with children.

That is gross negligence by itself and were that all that happened, should have merited at least EXTENSIVE (unpaid) retraining, if not dismissal.

Actually firing the taser??? (I'm sure it "just went off" for the same reason guns "just go off") Immediate dismissal.




Let's compare: what would happen to a GI if he were horsing around with some Iraqi children and had a less-than-lethal weapon "just go off" while pointing it at one of said children?

Leaving the military, how about a security gaurd, if he were horsing around and a child was shot by his taser, what would be the outcome?

Why are the police held to such a low standard?

[T.O.M.]

and it came out of the holster, why?

I've seen some cops demonstrate a taser to kids.  Without fail, each one popped the cartridge off before doing anything...except that one Vegas cop that let the kid pop fat Jesus in the face.   

[AZRedhawk44]

Why are the police held to such a low standard?

1* !   1* !   1* !   1* !   1* !   1* !   1* !   1* !   1* !   1* !   1* !   1* !   

9/11!  9/11!  9/11!  9/11!  9/11!  9/11!  9/11!  9/11!  9/11!  9/11!  9/11! 

Why do you hate 'Muhrica?

[MillCreek]

1* !   1* !   1* !   1* !   1* !   1* !   1* !   1* !   1* !   1* !   1* !   1* !   

9/11!  9/11!  9/11!  9/11!  9/11!  9/11!  9/11!  9/11!  9/11!  9/11!  9/11! 

Why do you hate 'Muhrica?

You forgot 'officer safety'.

[HankB]

So, was that cop the only one on that schoolground professional enough to handle a taser 

 

Of course - after all, he didn't accidentally shoot himself in the foot now, did he?

[MechAg94]

It was relayed to me by word of mouth, but what I was told jives with what Roo_ster posted. 

Chris

Sorry mtnbkr.  I had a couple meetings and didn't come back to the thread until now. 

[MechAg94]

The article roo_ster posted is what I heard.  Walton & Johnson mentioned in their morning taser report today.  They said the officer took off the cartridge earlier in a class demonstration and for some reason thought he had left it off.  Then (like a gun he knew was unloaded) he got in trouble when he pulled the trigger on the boy later.

The article at least states that he did take the boy to the nurse's office and stayed for the parents.  The complaint implies he dumped the kid at the principle's office and took off. 

Anyway, it sounds like he screwed up with a negligent discharge of the taser on a child, but that is about as far as it goes.  Is a 3 day suspension enough?  I don't know.  Unless they can show the kid has some real medical issues, I am not sure I see a big money award justified here. 

[makattak]

Anyway, it sounds like he screwed up with a negligent discharge of the taser on a child, but that is about as far as it goes.  Is a 3 day suspension enough?  I don't know.  Unless they can show the kid has some real medical issues, I am not sure I see a big money award justified here. 

Let's compare: what would happen to a GI if he were horsing around with some Iraqi children and had a less-than-lethal weapon "just go off" while pointing it at one of said children?

Leaving the military, how about a security gaurd, if he were horsing around and a child was shot by his taser, what would be the outcome?

Is a 3-day suspension enough? Would a soldier be placed on 3 day restricted duty? Would a security guard get three days off works without pay?

[brimic]

A police officer doing something negligent or stupid should be no different than any other citizen doing something negligent or stupid. For a case like this, what would the police and District Attorney response be if, say a guy was showing the neighborhood kids his new taser, being negligent and acting like it was a toy, and then accidentally shooting his neighbor's son and instead of calling EMS, just pulling the probes out himself and trying to minimize the incident? Would they look at giving him the equivalent of a three day suspension, or would they prosecute him for a misdemeanor or felony crime ? If the latter, the officer in this case should face the same potential criminal consequences (I'm sure the civil consequences cannot be avoided here).

If I were present while a cop pulled out a taser and hit my son with it, cop or not, I would have shot him.
Tasers are 'less lethal' devices, not 'non-lethal'- I view it no differently than if the cop grabbed a nightstick or Asp and started beating my kid.

[MechAg94]

Is a 3-day suspension enough? Would a soldier be placed on 3 day restricted duty? Would a security guard get three days off works without pay?

With a taser I assume?  Is it?  You tell me.  Would a security guard be demonstrating how a taser works at a school?  I doubt it.

3 days sounds pretty light to me also.  Long term, it appears no one is hurt, but causing the kid to pass out is pretty bad.  I guess we'll find out what the jury thinks about it before too long.

[Strings]

>I take the police officer at his word as I find it extremely hard to believe he planned on tasering the child.

That means he has admitted to horsing around with a weapon with children<

I would actually prefer he meant to do it, to he just "made a mistake".

One would show that he is vindictive: that can be dealt with.

The other shows that he's an idiot. And we have been FAR to forgiving of idiots with badges

[makattak]

With a taser I assume?  Is it?  You tell me.  Would a security guard be demonstrating how a taser works at a school?  I doubt it.

If you will note the article, the Officer does not claim to have been "demonstrating how a taser works". You just assumed that. Read the article, it says "The officer contends his stun gun went off by accident while he was showing it to a group of students, according to Department of Public Safety documents."

That's not a school demonstration. In fact, it is completely consistent with the claim of the victim that he pulled it out while horsing around with the boys. (And sounds suspiciously like an attempt to put the best face on his actions while still being technically true.)

So, if a security guard were horsing around with his taser and accidentally shot someone, what would happen to him? (I note you didn't answer that question.)

[MechAg94]

It depends on how good the guards union is.   . I've never seen security guards treated too well so I don't think it is an apples to apples comparison. 

The radio report I heard this morning is where I got the info that he was demonstrating the taser prior to this.  I don't know where they got it from.  It was still a foolish thing to do. 

From what I have seen on these "bad cop" articles over the years, cops rarely get fired unless they are doing something illegal.  That may not apply to all departments, but he wasn't fired.  With that in mind, I don't know if 3 days is nothing or a lot.  In my company, 3 days off and a letter in your file is about as bad as it gets short of firing. 

[makattak]

It depends on how good the guards union is.   . I've never seen security guards treated too well so I don't think it is an apples to apples comparison. 

The radio report I heard this morning is where I got the info that he was demonstrating the taser prior to this.  I don't know where they got it from.  It was still a foolish thing to do. 

From what I have seen on these "bad cop" articles over the years, cops rarely get fired unless they are doing something illegal.  That may not apply to all departments, but he wasn't fired.  With that in mind, I don't know if 3 days is nothing or a lot.  In my company, 3 days off and a letter in your file is about as bad as it gets short of firing. 

The fact that "bad cops" (or in this case, negligent cops) don't ever get fired without a conviction is exactly the problem.

Any other organization with such gross negligence, ESPECIALLY with a 10 year old child getting injured, would be fired summarily (or as summarily as possible.) A police officer gets three days off.

This clear double standard (coupled with the fact that the police would likely be looking to charge any other person for such negligence) is what raises the hackles of even people like me who really want to support the police. I know most police are good. It REALLY bothers me that the police officers who are obviously not so are generally protected by the blue wall.

[HankB]

. . . I know most police are good. It REALLY bothers me that the police officers who are obviously not so are generally protected by the blue wall.

Can you really call the cops who protect the bad ones good?

The fact that this cop hasn't been fired, charged, or placed on longer suspension says the department itself is rotten.

[RoadKingLarry]

Can you really call the cops who protect the bad ones good?

The fact that this cop hasn't been fired, charged, or placed on longer suspension says the department itself is rotten.

This. A million times over. And that's  the #1 reason my default position with LE  total distrust.

[MechAg94]

The fact that "bad cops" (or in this case, negligent cops) don't ever get fired without a conviction is exactly the problem.

Any other organization with such gross negligence, ESPECIALLY with a 10 year old child getting injured, would be fired summarily (or as summarily as possible.) A police officer gets three days off.

This clear double standard (coupled with the fact that the police would likely be looking to charge any other person for such negligence) is what raises the hackles of even people like me who really want to support the police. I know most police are good. It REALLY bothers me that the police officers who are obviously not so are generally protected by the blue wall.

Not always.  I have seen companies tolerate quite a bit of incompetence and/or negligence without firing anyone.  Of course, no one gets hurt in most of those cases.  It is in the nature of big organizations to worry about CYA more than justice. 

I don't know why that department decided he shouldn't be fired.  I can only assume that unlike you, they were more objective and weren't approaching it from the perspective of an angry parent.  I am a bit surprised they didn't punish him more, but they may have done so just not publicized it, or maybe it wasn't reported.  They only thing we know they didn't do was fire him. 

[AZRedhawk44]

From what I have seen on these "bad cop" articles over the years, cops rarely get fired unless they are doing something illegal.  That may not apply to all departments, but he wasn't fired.  With that in mind, I don't know if 3 days is nothing or a lot.  In my company, 3 days off and a letter in your file is about as bad as it gets short of firing. 

Like maliciously (or "negligently"  ) assaulting a kid with 50,000 volts of electricity?

If it's out of the holster and pointed at a kid for anything other than true law enforcement purposes... it ain't "negligent."  No matter what.  The intent was snarky intimidation compliance "I am above the law" authoritah bullscat.

If I were present while a cop pulled out a taser and hit my son with it, cop or not, I would have shot him.
Tasers are 'less lethal' devices, not 'non-lethal'- I view it no differently than if the cop grabbed a nightstick or Asp and started beating my kid.

Unless my non-existent son were on some sort of Ritalin-rage or other situation calling for his tasing, I'm right there with you.

[Balog]

Can you really call the cops who protect the bad ones good?

The fact that this cop hasn't been fired, charged, or placed on longer suspension says the department itself is rotten.

This. A million times over. And that's  the #1 reason my default position with LE  total distrust.

Yep. Cops treat non-cops far far worse than I ever treated the Iraqis I worked with in country. Masters with electric whips instead of servants.