Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: cassandra and sara's daddy on January 30, 2014, 06:04:49 PM
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Again
I have to admit I bought the hype first time around.
Not so much this time
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My mind-reading skills are down today.
Crystal ball yields no results.
Don't feel like googling it.
Background?
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http://news.yahoo.com/italy-court-says-knox-sollecito-guilty-murdering-meredith-211336529.html
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I paid little attention to this, but I did see a recent interview with Knox. My gut feeling was that she is guilty.
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OK, thanks for the link.
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I paid little attention to this, but I did see a recent interview with Knox. My gut feeling was that she is guilty.
she had a publicity machine that was pretty good. i thinks shes not only guilty but she tried to hang it on her boss . he was lucky he could prove his innocence. and she admits to wrongfully naming him"cause she was scared"
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extradition ???
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hopefully
it'll take a while
shes got as many defenders as troy davis and they are just as delusional
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Zero extradition. U.S. won't on any grounds or trials that are unconstitutional. This one being simple double-jeopardy.
I feel bad for Kercher's family, but frankly, the kangaroo court third world freakshow that is "Italian Justice", the alternately three stooges then abusive police, and incompetent amateur-hour mistakes in basic scientific procedure and chain of custody in evidence by the forensics people is the much larger issue now. Italy's criminal justice system is an embarrassment to Italy, Europe, and Western Civ in general.
Even if she did do it, Italy essentially went to court with what amounts to a frame job to convict her.
I wouldn't turn *expletive deleted*ing Charles Manson over to them.
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This is the same Italy that convicted a scientist because he failed to predict an earthquake-
The Italian court system is weird, even by US standards.
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Zero extradition. U.S. won't on any grounds or trials that are unconstitutional. This one being simple double-jeopardy.
I feel bad for Kercher's family, but frankly, the kangaroo court third world freakshow that is "Italian Justice", the alternately three stooges then abusive police, and incompetent amateur-hour mistakes in basic scientific procedure and chain of custody in evidence by the forensics people is the much larger issue now. Italy's criminal justice system is an embarrassment to Italy, Europe, and Western Civ in general.
Even if she did do it, Italy essentially went to court with what amounts to a frame job to convict her.
I wouldn't turn *expletive deleted* Charles Manson over to them.
What he said.
She could be guilty as sin or innocent as a bird, I really don't care.
The soap opera aspect is as annoying as hell and the Italian court is koo koo for co co puffs.
Hell, actual soap opera's are better scripted, researched and acted out, which is really saying something.
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This is the same Italy that convicted a scientist because he failed to predict an earthquake-
The Italian court system is weird, even by US standards.
Thank you! I was trying to remember that one.
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Any bets on Obama's "justice" dept. finding a way to give her to Italy?
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Any bets on Obama's "justice" dept. finding a way to give her to Italy?
Only if she becomes a conservative activist... and somehow I doubt that happening.
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Her biggest cheerleader has been the American media. As the American media is rarely ever right on anything, my first notion was that she must be guilty. :laugh:
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Bummer.
I thought she was kinda cute.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg3.rnkr-static.com%2Fuser_node_img%2F50009%2F1000161034%2F870%2Famanda-knox-photo-u1.jpg&hash=59ec6cc8fbb7063d7888d60693579b1bc93c4095)
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Bummer.
I thought she was kinda cute.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg3.rnkr-static.com%2Fuser_node_img%2F50009%2F1000161034%2F870%2Famanda-knox-photo-u1.jpg&hash=59ec6cc8fbb7063d7888d60693579b1bc93c4095)
That's Anna Chapman. Russian Spy.
Not Amanda Knox, convicted (by a kangaroo court!) murderess.
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.abcnews.com%2Fimages%2FSocial_Climber%2FAP_amanda_knox_tk_140130_16x9_992.jpg&hash=88f79bce07ac25019036143adf8eeb8200fb7448)
This is Amanda Knox
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"Pretty white girl in trouble in a foreign country. Film at 11"
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Great. Now the local news will be all Amanda Knox all the time for 2 weeks.
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Any bets on Obama's "justice" dept. finding a way to give her to Italy?
Since Amanda lives here in Seattle, suffice it to say that her story has gotten media coverage here up the wazoo for years. The State Department has a pretty defined process for considering requests for extradition. We have had a mutual extradition treaty with Italy for decades. If the Italians want her back, and we ever want to ask Italy to send a criminal convicted in American courts back, that is something that State takes into consideration: not just that case, but potential future cases. The only real exception is that Italy, along with many other First World nations, will not extradite someone who faces the death penalty back in the country that wants them.
As for all the media attention, I think this is another case of cute middle class white girl rallies the troops to fight for her rights in a foreign land. Italy has had a well-functioning court system for centuries before the USA did, and there are many aspects of the American justice system as practiced throughout the country that I would have a hard time defending to foreigners.
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As for all the media attention, I think this is another case of cute middle class white girl rallies the troops to fight for her rights in a foreign land. Italy has had a well-functioning court system for centuries millennia before the USA did, and there are many aspects of the American justice system as practiced throughout the country that I would have a hard time defending to foreigners.
Fixed. Don't forget Rome.
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Fixed. Don't forget Rome.
Worked out well for that Jewish carpenter =|
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If she has half a brain she'll be on her way to a non extradition country. Write a book and live fat dumb and happy.
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If she has half a brain she'll be on her way to a non extradition country. Write a book and live fat dumb and happy.
Proving she's a criminal [/Tommygunn]
Chris
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Since Amanda lives here in Seattle, suffice it to say that her story has gotten media coverage here up the wazoo for years. The State Department has a pretty defined process for considering requests for extradition. We have had a mutual extradition treaty with Italy for decades. If the Italians want her back, and we ever want to ask Italy to send a criminal convicted in American courts back, that is something that State takes into consideration: not just that case, but potential future cases. The only real exception is that Italy, along with many other First World nations, will not extradite someone who faces the death penalty back in the country that wants them.
As for all the media attention, I think this is another case of cute middle class white girl rallies the troops to fight for her rights in a foreign land. Italy has had a well-functioning court system for centuries before the USA did, and there are many aspects of the American justice system as practiced throughout the country that I would have a hard time defending to foreigners.
I based my comment on AJ's comment-
Zero extradition. U.S. won't on any grounds or trials that are unconstitutional. This one being simple double-jeopardy.
I feel bad for Kercher's family, but frankly, the kangaroo court third world freakshow that is "Italian Justice", the alternately three stooges then abusive police, and incompetent amateur-hour mistakes in basic scientific procedure and chain of custody in evidence by the forensics people is the much larger issue now. Italy's criminal justice system is an embarrassment to Italy, Europe, and Western Civ in general.
Even if she did do it, Italy essentially went to court with what amounts to a frame job to convict her.
I wouldn't turn *expletive deleted* Charles Manson over to them.
But if you see the flustercluck of a kangaroo circus court that is "Italian Justice" as a "well functioning court system" well, we must use a different standard for what "well functioning" means. and NO I do not have any extra or even any particular respect for their system just because it's centuries older than ours, Sharia law is older than our system as well and I don't particularly see that as a superior system.
While our system is pretty FUBAR as it is it is still, IMHO, orders of magnitude better and more fair than the Italian system.
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As for all the media attention, I think this is another case of cute middle class white girl rallies the troops to fight for her rights in a foreign land. Italy has had a well-functioning court system for centuries before the USA did, and there are many aspects of the American justice system as practiced throughout the country that I would have a hard time defending to foreigners.
I agree with that (except for the part about Italy having a well functioning system) but I'm curious what specific parts you find troubling?
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If she has half a brain she'll be on her way to a non extradition country. Write a book and live fat dumb and happy.
Thing is, she IS effectively in a non-extradition country. There's not a lot of them anymore, not when it comes to foreigners anymore at least, and many/most of the remaining ones I wouldn't want to be in as a woman.
In most cases your home country is your best bet if you're not actually wanted there.
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I'm not qualified to comment regarding Italy's justice system, but I think it's universal that media of any given country will defend the citizens of their own country regardless of the circumstances. Allow me to present an example: Annika Östberg. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annika_%C3%96stberg) Born in Sweden, moved to the US at a young age with her mother, got involved with drugs, admitted to stabbing a man to death (according to her it was to protect her then boyfriend who had several previous convictions). About 8 years later, she was involved in two murders. First victim was ex-restaurant owner Joe Torre. Östberg pretended to bring stolen meat out of her truck to allow her boyfriend to sneak up on the guy to shoot him. Later on, she was involved in the murder of a police officer, probably in the same way, ie distracting him so her boyfriend could kill him. However, according to Swedish media, she was an innocent little angel who was afwaid of her big bad boyfriend, and the only reason for her life sentence was because he hung himself (or was hanged perhaps) in prison, and the courts wanted to send someone to prison for the murders.
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Proving she's a criminal [/Tommygunn]
Chris
Well the Italians surely think she is. :P :P
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Proving she's a criminal [/Tommygunn]
Chris
She already did that. How familiar are you with the case? Non mcnews facts.
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She already did that. How familiar are you with the case? Non mcnews facts.
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Pssst, I don't think he's talking about this case.
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Ex boyfriend got stopped taking a leave of absence
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I based my comment on AJ's comment-
But if you see the flustercluck of a kangaroo circus court that is "Italian Justice" as a "well functioning court system" well, we must use a different standard for what "well functioning" means. and NO I do not have any extra or even any particular respect for their system just because it's centuries older than ours, Sharia law is older than our system as well and I don't particularly see that as a superior system.
While our system is pretty FUBAR as it is it is still, IMHO, orders of magnitude better and more fair than the Italian system.
Do you think that similar issues over forensics and police investigations do not occur in American courts? They are hardly unique to either the Italian or American jurisprudence systems.
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Do you think that similar issues over forensics and police investigations do not occur in American courts? They are hardly unique to either the Italian or American jurisprudence systems.
Yea, but in our system the govt. gets only one bite at the apple. It can't keep re-trying defendants until they get a verdict they like in the manner of a throw of dice.
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Yea, but in our system the govt. gets only one bite at the apple. It can't keep re-trying defendants until they get a verdict they like in the manner of a throw of dice.
What do you imagine happened there that wouldn't here? Tried convicted , overturned on appeal, appela overturned by higher court. I realize that pretty white girl syndrome is strong but lets get real.
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Yea, but in our system the govt. gets only one bite at the apple. It can't keep re-trying defendants until they get a verdict they like in the manner of a throw of dice.
And this raises a key point: other countries have their own legal systems. These actions are perfectly appropriate under Italian law. This latest decision is able to be appealed and will be. Why should Italy be criticized for not having double jeopardy provisions? Why apply American legal standards to a person being tried in an Italian court? Why the concern over this case? Is it because it is a young photogenic middle class white girl from Seattle? I don't see a lot of people complaining over the injustice (if any) to Rudy Guede who was convicted of the murder and is serving 16 years, or Raffaele Sollecito, Knox's boyfriend who is also going through the same appeals process. Huh.
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And this raises a key point: other countries have their own legal systems. These actions are perfectly appropriate under Italian law. This latest decision is able to be appealed and will be. Why should Italy be criticized for not having double jeopardy provisions? Why apply American legal standards to a person being tried in an Italian court? Why the concern over this case? Is it because it is a young photogenic middle class white girl from Seattle? I don't see a lot of people complaining over the injustice (if any) to Rudy Guede who was convicted of the murder and is serving 16 years, or Raffaele Sollecito, Knox's boyfriend who is also going through the same appeals process. Huh.
lets not forget the bar owner that pwg originally told the cops was the killer.
its a good thing he had a good alibi
its a funny thing when folks name an innocent its usually to cover their own crime
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And Ms. Knox was convicted of defaming Mr. Lumumba, the bar owner, and sentenced to serve three years and pay him 32,000 Euros for falsely accusing him of the murder. I wonder if she ever paid that award.
Now mind you, I have no real opinion as to if she did it or not. Based solely on what I have read in the media and the legal journals, it appears as if the investigation was sub-par in many respects. But I do think that the Italian court system is in the best position to make these determinations applying Italian law, and I do not think this was a show trial on the level of some of the Soviet trials.
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What do you imagine happened there that wouldn't here? Tried convicted , overturned on appeal, appela overturned by higher court. I realize that pretty white girl syndrome is strong but lets get real.
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I have a major issue with this: Government being able to appeal a decision it doesn't like to a higher court.
Once there's a "win" for the defendant, government loses. Otherwise it's double jeopardy IMO.
We wouldn't have Miller as a precedent, if so.
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I have a major issue with this: Government being able to appeal a decision it doesn't like to a higher court.
Once there's a "win" for the defendant, government loses. Otherwise it's double jeopardy IMO.
We wouldn't have Miller as a precedent, if so.
i'd agree if they lost first trial but they didn't the appeals process was started by the killer. and ironically she got more time this trial. seen that here to. guys had a funny look on their face
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>Great. Now the local news will be all Amanda Knox all the time for 2 weeks.<
Better than hearing more about that Bieber thing
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>Great. Now the local news will be all Amanda Knox all the time for 2 weeks.<
Better than hearing more about that Bieber thing
Give them Bieber and tell them it's Amanda Knox.
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ROTFL :lol:
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What do you imagine happened there that wouldn't here? Tried convicted , overturned on appeal, appela overturned by higher court. I realize that pretty white girl syndrome is strong but lets get real.
In the U.S. system, a verdict of not guilty by a jury in a criminal case cannot be appealed or overturned.
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In the U.S. system, a verdict of not guilty by a jury in a criminal case cannot be appealed or overturned.
she wasn't found not guilty by a jury in italy. so whats your point?
bearing in mind that one does not carry a bubble of american law surrounding them whem they choose to go overseas
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Give them Bieber and tell them it's Amanda Knox.
Winning.
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And this raises a key point: other countries have their own legal systems. These actions are perfectly appropriate under Italian law. This latest decision is able to be appealed and will be. Why should Italy be criticized for not having double jeopardy provisions? Why apply American legal standards to a person being tried in an Italian court? Why the concern over this case? Is it because it is a young photogenic middle class white girl from Seattle? I don't see a lot of people complaining over the injustice (if any) to Rudy Guede who was convicted of the murder and is serving 16 years, or Raffaele Sollecito, Knox's boyfriend who is also going through the same appeals process. Huh.
I have always liked the provision against double jeopardy, it keeps the buzzards honest. They get their one bite. They don't get to make some poor shlub into a whipping boy when their egos get bruised by a "not guilty" verdict and thus keep after the defendant like a Lt. Gerard after a Dr. Kimble.
As for the Italians, meh, it would be nice if they would get wise and adopt a double jeopardy law but I really don't care if they do. Despite whatever verdicts have been delivered over there, I really don't have any strong feelings about Amanda Knox and whether or not she's guilty. That also applies to the codefendants.
Like it or not, I just don't invest a lot of concern over what happens in other nations, we have enough problems here. I was just injecting an offhand comment about the matter of double jeopardy into the thread, is all.
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I can assure you that after this fiasco, the earthquake manslaughter (or was it murder?) trils, the Senna related trials, the American pilots that clipped the gondola cable, and probably others I'm not remembering, I have little intention of ever visiting Italy. I don't need to have my life turned upside down for a decade or longer fighting them over a murder charge due to an accident, or false accusation.
FWIW, I don't know if Knox is innocent or guilty in her roommates death but a lot of the case never made any sense.
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And this raises a key point: other countries have their own legal systems. These actions are perfectly appropriate under Italian law. This latest decision is able to be appealed and will be. Why should Italy be criticized for not having double jeopardy provisions? Why apply American legal standards to a person being tried in an Italian court? Why the concern over this case? Is it because it is a young photogenic middle class white girl from Seattle? I don't see a lot of people complaining over the injustice (if any) to Rudy Guede who was convicted of the murder and is serving 16 years, or Raffaele Sollecito, Knox's boyfriend who is also going through the same appeals process. Huh.
1. Italy isn't being criticized for lack of double jeopardy provisions; they're being criticized for a rather lousy trial process and inability to let a poor case go
2. American legal standards aren't being applied to the Italian court; since she's now in the USA in order to get Amanda back Italy would have to apply for extradition, for which American legal standards very much apply. One of these is that, applicable in Italian courts or not, US Citizens on US soil are protected by double jeopardy standards when it comes to extradition.
3. Common opinion is that Rudy really DID do it.
4. Sad to say, Raffaele is Italian and thus not as interesting a legal problem as Amanda, nor is protecting him as much of protecting one of our own. I have seen sympathy expressed for him here.
Like many provisions in the Constitution, the double jeopardy clause was put in there because Kings were fond of holding as many trials as it took to get a guilty verdict.
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Do you think that similar issues over forensics and police investigations do not occur in American courts? They are hardly unique to either the Italian or American jurisprudence systems.
I have a friend who married an Italian, and lives in Italy half the year. His comments on the Italian court system are...interesting. When I mentioned the conviction of the men for "failing to predict an earthquake", he was not surprised-at all. His reaction had nothing to do with procedure, forensics, science or anything of that ilk- his comments were on the depth of belief in superstition and witchcraft prevalent in the society. He said for Americans, it is hard to fathom.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2549196/Amanda-Knox-handed-Italy-appeal-fails-claims-Harvard-law-professor-buck-stops-President-Obama.html
http://news.sky.com/story/1204117/amanda-knox-will-be-extradited-by-us
This, and many other articles make the point that relying on double jeopardy to block her extradition is not necessarily something you should bet money on. It is likely that the language of the actual extradition treaty will control.
Also some interesting comments on how the US seeks to have more people extradited back here than any other country in the world.
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I don"t believe she can apply double jeopardy. First trial got her convicted. She appealed got it overturned. Higher court reversed first appeal. That would fly here and should
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Interesting that in the first trial the prosecution claimed Kercher was killed during sex games gone wrong. During the second trial she was killed because of a disagreement on housekeeping standards.
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Interesting that in the first trial the prosecution claimed Kercher was killed during sex games gone wrong. During the second trial she was killed because of a disagreement on housekeeping standards.
yup
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I have always liked the provision against double jeopardy, it keeps the buzzards honest.
No, it just means they find another crime to try you for, in another court. Ask those cops involved in the Rodney King beating trial.
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^^^ Exactly. State charges versus Federal civil rights charges.
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Yea, but in our system the govt. gets only one bite at the apple. It can't keep re-trying defendants until they get a verdict they like in the manner of a throw of dice.
But different jurisdictions can get a crack at the accused - think back to the Rodney King beating; acquitted by a state court, the Feds brought charges. And Eric Holder's justice department is still considering some sort of charges against George Zimmerman, despite his acquittal in Florida court.
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No, it just means they find another crime to try you for, in another court. Ask those cops involved in the Rodney King beating trial.
That is a good point except:
But different jurisdictions can get a crack at the accused - think back to the Rodney King beating; acquitted by a state court, the Feds brought charges. And Eric Holder's justice department is still considering some sort of charges against George Zimmerman, despite his acquittal in Florida court.
IIRC the Constitution's provision against double jeopardy merely states that the defendant may not be tried more than once for a particular crime.
Thus what the govt. did with accuse in the Rodney King event as HankB pointed out. That sort of things seems an inventive if cynical "work-around" of the double-jeopardy rule. They use the Fedgov. to charge some kind of depravation of right charge. But it STILL remains the same crime. The Constitution does not state the Fedgove gets an exception from the double jeopardy prohibition for any reason.
Thus, it seems there is a bad defect in our judicial system that needs to be fixed ... somehow.
And Eric Holder going after Zimmerman would only emphasize the problem, despite the fact I think Zimmerman is not the brightest bulb in the chandelier.
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I don"t believe she can apply double jeopardy. First trial got her convicted. She appealed got it overturned. Higher court reversed first appeal. That would fly here and should
N... No, it wouldn't. That's procedurally impossible here, mostly because that's not what actually happened, but also because our system is more of a pass/fail with verdicts.
There isn't really a perfect analogue here, but the gist is that Italians get two trials. The appellate court is actually able to return two basic types of acquittals, which break down further into five actual verdicts. The point is that the second trial returned a full-on 'Not Guilty' (as opposed to a 'Not Proven') because of insufficiency. And blisteringly so: "Material nonexistence" of evidence in the first trial, a motive that "while not corroborated by any evidence, is itself far from probable," and ends with "Having excluded the existence of any proof of the guilt of the current defendants..."
In the US, the overturning of a guilty verdict resulting in a retrial is considered a continuation of jeopardy provided that it's a procedural issue (and a few other miscellaneous things). A completed trial with a conviction that is overturned on grounds of sufficiency cannot be retried. See Burks v. US.
So it's that second trial that was overturned. The second verdict is only supposed to be overturned on some kind of issue with procedure or the application of the law. There is allegedly much fishiness in how this appeal went. It has nothing to do with the evidence of the original trial, but with the trial of Guede determining that there were additional perpetrators. Let me say that again: The opinion of the court in a separate trial of another person was accepted as evidence in an appeal that is not supposed to be about evidence. That a third court is able to render an opinion in a criminal trial at all, much less have it accepted as "fact" in another trial is a complete joke.
The second trial was re-tried, and it returned a conviction. That can be appealed just like the last second trial.
Also, they don't have juries. Not like we do, anyway. It's kind of an odd system.
So yeah, I wouldn't give the Manson, either.
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And now the result of the appeal of the appeal will be appealed.
Quite a system. [popcorn]
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And now the result of the appeal of the appeal will be appealed.
Quite a system. [popcorn]
Sir Frank Williams, Patrick Head and Adrian Newey spent over a DECADE fighting off a murder charge over the death Ayrton Senna. They were, IIRC, acquitted at the original trial. Prosecution appealed, and appealed, and appealed. I know that in 2004 (the 10 year mark) it was still ongoing. I think I remember hearing about it still going on ca. 2008.
That was an accident. There's supposition that the design was faulty, or the construction of the steering column was botched. Either way, it's a race car and race cars are always prototypes and also built to the lightest possible weight. That makes them inherently more likely to fail and cause an accident. But the accident has never been proven to be caused by a steering column failure. And yet they wouldn't let it go.
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Sir Frank Williams, Patrick Head and Adrian Newey spent over a DECADE fighting off a murder charge over the death Ayrton Senna. They were, IIRC, acquitted at the original trial. Prosecution appealed, and appealed, and appealed. I know that in 2004 (the 10 year mark) it was still ongoing. I think I remember hearing about it still going on ca. 2008.
That was an accident. There's supposition that the design was faulty, or the construction of the steering column was botched. Either way, it's a race car and race cars are always prototypes and also built to the lightest possible weight. That makes them inherently more likely to fail and cause an accident. But the accident has never been proven to be caused by a steering column failure. And yet they wouldn't let it go.
didn't the prosecute the owners of a track when fans were hurt too?
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The ability of a prosecutor to refile charges after a dismissal is also , IMO ,a work-around of the double jeopardy rules- I have a friend who had multiple dismissals - (four, IIRC) of his charges, and 13 years elapsed, before the county finally gave up - this time the county asked for a dismissal as their witness was unavailable-and my friend asked for a dismissal "with prejudice", the judge granted it.
13 years fighting it- he was his own lawyer. No way he could have done that with hired help.
victimless crime- but he is a white Christian gun owning middle class male in a very blue county and the "prosecuter" (spelling correct) had a vendetta going.
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In general, I avoid pop culture mediagasms and wasn't going to read this thread.
But I got myself ensnared in it and it's actually interesting, like, justice-wise, y' know? See what I'm sayin'?
Hell, it even prompted cassandra and sara's daddy to locate the shift key. :)
TommyGunn remarked,
I have always liked the provision against double jeopardy, it keeps the buzzards honest. They get their one bite. They don't get to make some poor shlub into a whipping boy when their egos get bruised by a "not guilty" verdict and thus keep after the defendant like a Lt. Gerard after a Dr. Kimble.
Me, too. Past history hath shewn many instances where "sorcerers" and "witches" and "traitors" et cetera have been retried until guilty. Hell, if that ugly old crone doesn't have the Devil's Mark on her, let's see if she can float in the river. That ought to prove our case. Or put her on the rack until she 'fesses up.
I just wish we could apply the same double jeopardy reasoning to Acts of Legislatures somehow. Once rejected, a potential law (or its concept) should be "juris non grata" for a while. Beats the coin-tossing in successive legislative sessions.
(I just made up that "juris non grata" phrase. Just this very minute.)
Terry
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didn't the prosecute the owners of a track when fans were hurt too?
Probably. But what's that got to do with the Senna trials? I looked it up. Williams, Head and Newey along with about 4 other team members were acquitted at the first trial. They appealed the acquittal, and appealed all rulings in the favor of the F1 team members/owners. Eventually they got a "conviction" for manslaughter (or the equivalent charge, I think it was called culpable homicide) against Patrick Head. But that came over 13 years after Senna died, and the statute of limitations (surprised they didn't appeal that) came around 6 years before that, so they couldn't impose the jail sentence they were after on Head.
Even if the steering column had failed, and even if that was the proximate cause of the accident that killed Senna, and if that failure was due to poor design and/or workmanship such that the failure was foreseeable it would still be a stretch in any reasonable person's mind to call that manslaughter, never mind murder. A tort action by Senna (had he lived) or his heirs would maybe be called for. But he was probably heavily involved in the modifications, regardless he knew what was done, and raced that car anyway.
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I just wish we could apply the same double jeopardy reasoning to Acts of Legislatures somehow. Once rejected, a potential law (or its concept) should be "juris non grata" for a while. Beats the coin-tossing in successive legislative sessions.
But what if it is a "law" that increases liberty ???
For instance, establishing shall issue CCW or better yet, "consitutional carry" ?
Could you only bring up a bill once that repeals an existing law?
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^ Good point. My anger at the constant similar attempts to infringe blinded me there for a minute.
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http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/31/opinion/burleigh-amanda-knox-verdict/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
This article is by a woman who spent two years in Perugia and researched the case exhaustively. Makes for interesting reading, and doesn't lend a lot of credence to the prosecution theory-du-jour (regardless of which jour)/
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http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/31/opinion/burleigh-amanda-knox-verdict/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
This article is by a woman who spent two years in Perugia and researched the case exhaustively. Makes for interesting reading, and doesn't lend a lot of credence to the prosecution theory-du-jour (regardless of which jour)/
her first demonstrable lie is in paragraph 6 i stopped then does she get better at it in the rest of her book promotion?
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This guy sees her a lil different. and he knew her. i was gonna say "he was there" but thats also a proven lie as well
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2047234/Amanda-Knox-fantastic-actress-says-Patrick-Lumumba-accused-murder.html
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her first demonstrable lie is in paragraph 6 i stopped then does she get better at it in the rest of her book promotion?
ID the "lie" and refute it.
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no dna evidence
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/The_Double_DNA_Knife
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no dna evidence
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/The_Double_DNA_Knife
Knox's DNA found on the handle of a knife in her own house. Should I call the police to come get you now, or will you be taking them your knives to test for your own DNA, murderer?
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tldr? try again or ask for help
If the DNA Profile on the Knife Matches the Victim Then What Is the Issue?
That the profile found on the knife recovered from Sollecito's apartment is a match to Meredith was never in question. The experts for both sides stipulated to the fact that those two profiles match. Conti and Vecchiotti, although they reveal their bias in attempting to avoid directly answering the question, eventually admit that the DNA profile recovered from the knife is a match to Meredith Kercher. Their criticism with respect to the knife DNA is that they feel Stefanoni ought not to have tested it at all, but since it was tested and a profile obtained this result should nevertheless be excluded because the small size of the sample precluded dividing it first for two separate amplifications. Specifically there is a minor objection that the lack of genetic material did not allow for repeated testing and a more significant objection that because the quantity of DNA was so small it might have arrived on the knife by some innocent means.
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But what if it is a "law" that increases liberty ???
There is no such thing- all a "law that increases liberty " does is rescind a previous law impairing liberty.
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her first demonstrable lie is in paragraph 6 i stopped then does she get better at it in the rest of her book promotion?
Okay, then ...
The latest Italian proceeding did not involve any new evidence and, sadly, didn't shed any new light on the crime. There is still no proof that Amanda Knox was in the bedroom where someone stabbed Meredith Kercher. The DNA and fingerprint evidence is still entirely linked to a man named Rudy Guede, who is serving a 16-year jail sentence for the murder -- shortened thanks to testimony that put Amanda Knox on the crime scene.
What's the demonstrable lie? I'm not seeing it.
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kerchers dna was found on knife at b/f's apt. Not even blood dna but tissue dna. Also on knife was knoxes blood on handle. kercher had never been to b/f's place though he tried to claim she had been. In much the same way knox claimed she saw her boss kill the victim.
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Ed,
All those people have names. Use them.
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Who's Ed? ???
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Moi
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