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Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Ben on February 15, 2017, 01:21:34 PM

Title: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Ben on February 15, 2017, 01:21:34 PM
Looks like it's time for Harrison Ford to quit the flying thing.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2017/02/14/report-harrison-ford-messes-up-landing-ca-airport/97911170/
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: K Frame on February 15, 2017, 01:44:27 PM
Maybe he was trying to make the Kessel run in something less than an inappropriate unit of measurment...
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: 41magsnub on February 15, 2017, 01:50:44 PM
He's fine at the flying thing.  Landing is his problem.
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Ben on February 15, 2017, 01:55:45 PM
Maybe he was trying to make the Kessel run in something less than an inappropriate unit of measurment...

 :rofl:
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Angel Eyes on February 15, 2017, 02:09:46 PM
He's fine at the flying thing.  Landing is his problem.

Yup.

https://youtu.be/WmwppdJlVVc?t=36

Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: KD5NRH on February 15, 2017, 02:12:48 PM
Hmmm...20L...cleverly marked with a big "20L" at the end, some nice yellow chevrons to tell you to stay out of the overrun, and...well, that's about it.  I guess if he was watching toward the middle and didn't pay attention to the end, the taxiways could look pretty similar.

Not a great layout, though; looks like all the commercial terminals are on the east and about 2/3 of the GA on the west, with the big runway (20R/2L) on the west side and the little one on the east, so everybody's having to cross everything most of the time.
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: TechMan on February 15, 2017, 02:26:17 PM
YEEHAW

(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.dilcdn.com%2Fbl%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F6%2F2015%2F01%2FE4D_IA_5306.jpg&hash=63ec4ee23eea2c37665646ec645147dab623f4a4)
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: MechAg94 on February 15, 2017, 03:11:35 PM
He's fine at the flying thing.  Landing is his problem.
His landings have been good enough so far.   =)
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Perd Hapley on February 15, 2017, 03:18:17 PM
What happened? Did he land in a giant space whale again?
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Angel Eyes on February 15, 2017, 03:45:26 PM
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.azquotes.com%2Fpicture-quotes%2Fquote-if-you-can-walk-away-from-a-landing-it-s-a-good-landing-if-you-use-the-airplane-the-chuck-yeager-102-26-28.jpg&hash=3e1b887b032a8e06a30c989e2319d359a0c3b852)
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Fly320s on February 15, 2017, 04:32:33 PM
Meh.  Ford is getting up there in age and may need to quit flying, but there have been plenty of people that landed on taxiways, airline pilots included.

The only reason this story made the national news is because it was Ford flying the plane.
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Ben on February 15, 2017, 04:44:14 PM
Meh.  Ford is getting up there in age and may need to quit flying, but there have been plenty of people that landed on taxiways, airline pilots included.

The only reason this story made the national news is because it was Ford flying the plane.

Age is where I was going with this, as it's his second incident in a year. Or he may want to start restricting himself to less busy airspace / airports, so there's less simultaneous information to process. Just like my dad is still fine driving into town, but I'd never let him drive through downtown LA anymore (hell, I don't even want to do that anymore).
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: KD5NRH on February 15, 2017, 05:49:54 PM
Meh.  Ford is getting up there in age and may need to quit flying, but there have been plenty of people that landed on taxiways, airline pilots included.

Isn't there something of an occasional push to have some sort of daytime taxiway marking?  Like green stripes every 50 feet or something?

Never really been an issue around here, since the only taxiway parallels the runway, and 80% of the traffic could easily land on it between intersections without making the slightest bit of difference.  The fact that it's half the width and lacks any sort of marklngs is usually a pretty good clue to move over to the big thing with lots of paint, though.
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 15, 2017, 06:52:57 PM
Age is where I was going with this, as it's his second incident in a year. Or he may want to start restricting himself to less busy airspace / airports, so there's less simultaneous information to process. Just like my dad is still fine driving into town, but I'd never let him drive through downtown LA anymore (hell, I don't even want to do that anymore).

THe previous incident was due to engine failure and was deemed not pilot error.
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Fly320s on February 15, 2017, 06:56:53 PM
Isn't there something of an occasional push to have some sort of daytime taxiway marking?  Like green stripes every 50 feet or something?

Maybe.  I don't know.

Your next paragraph sums it up.

Quote
The fact that it's half the width and lacks any sort of marklngs is usually a pretty good clue to move over to the big thing with lots of paint, though.

If this was day VMC, then there is a big issue.  If it was night... well, sh*t happens.
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Ben on February 15, 2017, 06:57:18 PM
THe previous incident was due to engine failure and was deemed not pilot error.

Oh, I misremembered that then.
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Fly320s on February 15, 2017, 06:57:46 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Ford gets a FAA check flight.
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Unisaw on February 15, 2017, 07:58:45 PM
SeaTac has had several airliners cleared for 16C land on the taxiway instead.  Supposedly, there can be quite a glare that obscures the runway markings, so they have issued special warnings about this.  Here's a link to page 2 of the IAP for runway 16C:

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1702/00582IL16C_C.PDF
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Firethorn on February 15, 2017, 08:09:45 PM
At least he landed at the right airport? 

I've known of several flights where the pilots managed to miss even that - both military and commercial.

IE The commercial flight lands at a military airport, and a military flight lands at a commercial one.

The heavy lift cargo plane realizing that they're committed to landing on a short strip and showing just how fast they can brake when they need to...

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/21/travel/kansas-cargo-plane-wrong-airport/
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 15, 2017, 09:30:32 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHMhClzfoi8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi58Ds3Krgw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an-UgwM1V8g
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: MechAg94 on February 16, 2017, 09:58:27 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHMhClzfoi8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi58Ds3Krgw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an-UgwM1V8g
I have seen one of those heavy lift Air Force jets land and take off at an air show.  I figure it was empty when I saw it, but it was amazing how little room it needed to land and take off.
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: KD5NRH on February 16, 2017, 10:16:40 AM
If this was day VMC, then there is a big issue.  If it was night... well, sh*t happens.

Take a look at the satellite view of the difference between 20L and 20R;  if he was just thinking "ignore the pretty runway and use the mixed-surface county-road looking thing east of it" then he just went one level of craptasticness too far.
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Jamisjockey on February 16, 2017, 10:56:01 AM
Happens more than you think, and at airports without parallel runways too.  BTDT

Somewhere there is a pilot deviation with my name on it and the quote
...deemed it was more safe to let N12345 land on the taxiway rather than send him around and let him menace the sky for another lap in the pattern..."
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: 41magsnub on February 16, 2017, 11:21:13 AM
At least he landed at the right airport?  

I've known of several flights where the pilots managed to miss even that - both military and commercial.



I was on a Delta flight many years ago coming into Great Falls, MT and was thinking the scenery looked all wrong.  Then we pulled up, turned away from Malmstrom AFB, and landed at Great Falls International as planned on the other side of town.
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: TechMan on February 16, 2017, 11:48:16 AM
Happens more than you think, and at airports without parallel runways too.  BTDT

Somewhere there is a pilot deviation with my name on it and the quote
...deemed it was more safe to let N12345 land on the taxiway rather than send him around and let him menace the sky for another lap in the pattern..."



 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: KD5NRH on February 16, 2017, 11:48:52 AM
Happens more than you think, and at airports without parallel runways too.  BTDT

Somewhere there is a pilot deviation with my name on it and the quote
...deemed it was more safe to let N12345 land on the taxiway rather than send him around and let him menace the sky for another lap in the pattern..."

Granddad once had a rather heated discussion with a small airport manager near Abilene who was complaining about him landing on the "taxiway" of a grass strip.  He'd spent plenty of time setting tail draggers down in pastures, and just aimed for the greenest path he could see in what looked to me like a ~80 yard wide lawn with some ruts along one side.  Apparently the manager thought it was better to have everybody keep chewing up the same slot rather than spread out the 3-4 takeoffs and landings a day over the whole usable surface.

And that was after a really steady tail-up landing where he didn't drop the back until just before turning off the "runway" area.  He threatened to land in their ~4 car parking lot next time he came through there in that Super Cub.
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Jamisjockey on February 16, 2017, 11:58:27 AM
Airport managers can be morons.  The one at EFD tried telling us we couldn't let helicopters land in the hanger area.  Um...we pretty much can't stop them.
"Landing at your own risk, use caution for _____ (if applicable), wind.  Report landing assured"
We can only tell them no for published prohibited areas/restricted areas and TFR's.
I had a heated discussion with the Airport manager, laughed at him, hung up on him. 

I've had a few tail draggers request grass landings.
"Landing at your own risk, area west of runway one seven right is uncontrolled, use caution for ditch on right side of runway, wind."
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: HankB on February 16, 2017, 02:01:09 PM
I remember hearing a story about a commercial airliner that accidentally landed at a military base - they allegedly were worried that some passengers may have seen or taken pictures of something secret so the .mil cops supposedly issued dire warnings about talking about the incident to everyone on the plane.

Another incident had a jetliner land at some really tiny airport - as I recall, the runway was too short for a normal takeoff, so they brought in a prize crew and took everything they possibly could off the plane (including seats and reserve fuel) to lighten it, waited for ideal weather conditions, and then took off, with a direct, pre-cleared flight to the nearest legitimate airport.
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Boomhauer on February 17, 2017, 11:20:42 PM
Quote
   
Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2017, 03:01:09 PM »
Reply with quoteQuote
I remember hearing a story about a commercial airliner that accidentally landed at a military base - they allegedly were worried that some passengers may have seen or taken pictures of something secret so the .mil cops supposedly issued dire warnings about talking about the incident to everyone on the plane.

Another incident had a jetliner land at some really tiny airport - as I recall, the runway was too short for a normal takeoff, so they brought in a prize crew and took everything they possibly could off the plane (including seats and reserve fuel) to lighten it, waited for ideal weather conditions, and then took off, with a direct, pre-cleared flight to the nearest legitimate airport.


The second incident you mentioned was a Piedmont Airlines 737 which landed at Daniel Field in Augusta, GA in 1986 (same field I learned to fly at). They didn't strip the seats out or anything but they did put in minimum fuel and flew it to Bush Regional, the original destination which is a very short 6 miles away. The pilot was flying a night visual approach  and was unfamiliar with the area. The tower at Bush had already closed for the night. He realized he was at the wrong airport while on short final and elected to land rather than attempt an abort.
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Fly320s on February 18, 2017, 07:42:51 AM


The second incident you mentioned was a Piedmont Airlines 737 which landed at Daniel Field in Augusta, GA in 1986 (same field I learned to fly at). They didn't strip the seats out or anything but they did put in minimum fuel and flew it to Bush Regional, the original destination which is a very short 6 miles away. The pilot was flying a night visual approach  and was unfamiliar with the area. The tower at Bush had already closed for the night. He realized he was at the wrong airport while on short final and elected to land rather than attempt an abort.

Which is why we practice low altitude go-arounds now.  I've had the main gear bounce off the runway during a go around in the sim.  No big deal.
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: dogmush on February 18, 2017, 07:45:11 AM
I think we all know Chewy was the real pilot in the team.  All Han does it get the jobs.
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Fly320s on February 18, 2017, 07:55:46 AM
I think we all know Chewy was the real pilot in the team.  All Han does it get the jobs.

That means they are all...... Han jobs.
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: cordex on February 18, 2017, 10:32:41 AM
Happens more than you think, and at airports without parallel runways too.  BTDT

Somewhere there is a pilot deviation with my name on it and the quote
...deemed it was more safe to let N12345 land on the taxiway rather than send him around and let him menace the sky for another lap in the pattern..."

(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Faircraft-in-focus.com%2Fwp-content%2Fgallery%2Fmonocoupe-n12345%2Fscan-151003-0007-800x.jpg&hash=0cbb0a20aeb21b9a4f558330d99c33c3c64b980a)
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Sergeant Bob on February 20, 2017, 12:55:54 AM
I have seen one of those heavy lift Air Force jets land and take off at an air show.  I figure it was empty when I saw it, but it was amazing how little room it needed to land and take off.

Are you thinking of the C-17? That thing is like a rocket ship. I saw it at the Dayton air show, pretty impressive.
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Sergeant Bob on February 20, 2017, 12:58:07 AM
That means they are all...... Han jobs.

I guffawed!
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: RocketMan on February 22, 2017, 10:48:05 AM
For your consideration, TACA Flight 110. (http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=470615)
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 22, 2017, 11:45:53 AM
For your consideration, TACA Flight 110. (http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=470615)


You can find an episode of Mayday: Air Crash Investigation on Youtube that's about this incident. To make it even better -- the pilot was blind in one eye.
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: 230RN on February 23, 2017, 05:56:12 PM
Granddad once had a rather heated discussion with a small airport manager near Abilene who was complaining about him landing on the "taxiway" of a grass strip.  He'd spent plenty of time setting tail draggers down in pastures, and just aimed for the greenest path he could see in what looked to me like a ~80 yard wide lawn with some ruts along one side.  Apparently the manager thought it was better to have everybody keep chewing up the same slot rather than spread out the 3-4 takeoffs and landings a day over the whole usable surface.

And that was after a really steady tail-up landing where he didn't drop the back until just before turning off the "runway" area.  He threatened to land in their ~4 car parking lot next time he came through there in that Super Cub.


You mean like this?

https://youtu.be/bPSElw8qEsI
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: KD5NRH on February 23, 2017, 06:10:20 PM
You mean like this?

https://youtu.be/bPSElw8qEsI

Heck, even unmodified, a Cub that isn't too heavily loaded can set down in an impressively small space.  Give it a 15-20mph headwind and a good pilot and that landing isn't too unusual.  No-wind roll for takeoff is 250ft and landing 300ft, so it doesn't take much to put those unnervingly close to zero.  Given a really good pilot with excellent timing and a strong gusting wind, it's possible to hover and set down vertical.  I've heard of them landing at negative ground speed, but even the braggarts that used to come through the local airport when granddad managed it never claimed to have had the guts to do it.
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Fly320s on February 23, 2017, 07:01:46 PM
I've never landed going backwards, but I have had a negative ground speed.  A Cessna 150/152 with full flaps and a decent headwind.
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Andiron on February 23, 2017, 08:39:27 PM
Are you thinking of the C-17? That thing is like a rocket ship. I saw it at the Dayton air show, pretty impressive.

Local guard unit has 141s,  which are pretty impressive in that regard too.
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: KD5NRH on February 24, 2017, 11:23:50 AM
I've never landed going backwards, but I have had a negative ground speed.  A Cessna 150/152 with full flaps and a decent headwind.

Tricycle gear is a little less...weird. 
Title: Re: Han Solo Needs to Quit Flying
Post by: Unisaw on February 24, 2017, 12:31:55 PM
At least one cartoonist has noticed:

https://townhall.com/political-cartoons/2017/02/23/148902