"Let's just make up evidence !!!"

[AZRedhawk44]

Like Chris, I can see a SCOTUS ruling as having the potential to be used very selectively.  For instance, in my home state of Virginia, sodomy, including oral sex, is a crime.  Of course they never devote the resources to an investigation because there is no voter demand for such nonsense.  But if the crime were to, say, be incidentally mentioned in a phone call, and the guilty party just happened to be a political opponent of the current administration, would it still be legal for them to use that info to create a case with a different back story?

Your example conflates state law with federal law enforcement officers.

Feds don't enforce state laws.

[Scout26]

Your example conflates state law with federal law enforcement officers.

Feds don't enforce state laws.

No, but if you read the story the feds were passing the illegally obtained information to state agencies.

[230RN]

Question should be easy for the defense.

"Have you ever knowingly created a false, 'alternative' or misleading trail of evidence, per DEA regulations?"
"Have you ever committed perjury, or omitted relevant information, during a trail?"
"Have you ever provided false information on 'tips', 'informants', or 'sources' "?
"Have you ever failed to provide evidence, to include covering up SOD involvement, to defense or prosecutors?"
"Have you provided knowledge to prosecutors and defense attorneys when evidence was illegally obtained, to include illegal warrantless wiretapping?"

Once an agent answers Yes to any, should be easy for a defense attorney to say "Agent Shmucettelli admitted to lying under oath, fabricating evidence, etc in the Scumbag A case. My client Scumbag B claims to be innocent as new fallen snow, and that Agent Shmucettelli is lying in his case as well."

But, but...  aren't the police allowed to lie?  So what's the big deal?

[tokugawa]

 The database will be used to turn the courts also. Remember Roberts curious last minute reversal on Zerocare?

[MechAg94]

I wasn't sure what opinion I had on this, but I think I agree with Chris in that this would essentially encourage police and investigators to use illegal evidence at will and then come back and white wash things to hide the fact or to fool the court into allowing the evidence.  Sets a bad precedent. 

[230RN]

"Ve haff our vays."

[Levant]

But we were told by the government defenders right here in these very forums that the NSA is not sharing information with law enforcement - because the NSA said they're not.

When will we wake up - and I mean us here who supposedly have our guards up? 

Didn't I see a sig here quoting someone else here about how when you think someone can't be any more stupid they prove you wrong?  When we think the government could do no worse to us, they prove us wrong.  There's very little, or possibly nothing, that I would not believe bad about what our government will do to its own people.

[roo_ster]

But we were told by the government defenders right here in these very forums that the NSA is not sharing information with law enforcement - because the NSA said they're not.

When will we wake up - and I mean us here who supposedly have our guards up? 

Didn't I see a sig here quoting someone else here about how when you think someone can't be any more stupid they prove you wrong?  When we think the government could do no worse to us, they prove us wrong.  There's very little, or possibly nothing, that I would not believe bad about what our government will do to its own people.

Just because gov't denies it doesn't make it true.  Now, every denial gov't has made in this area has thus far been shown false and the "wild conspiracy theory accusation" true. 

Still doesn't mean they've got mind rays and we should all break out the tinfoil hats.

[Balog]

Fed.gov is more limited by capability than intention. If they had the ability to do X awful thing they would, but thankfully they're fat and lazy and stupid and corrupt, on the whole. It's the few small pieces that are less incompetent that are scary.

[AZRedhawk44]

But we were told by the government defenders right here in these very forums that the NSA is not sharing information with law enforcement - because the NSA said they're not.

When will we wake up - and I mean us here who supposedly have our guards up? 

Didn't I see a sig here quoting someone else here about how when you think someone can't be any more stupid they prove you wrong?  When we think the government could do no worse to us, they prove us wrong.  There's very little, or possibly nothing, that I would not believe bad about what our government will do to its own people.

The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

Sometimes the left directs the right and the right goes along.  Sometimes the right directs the left and the left goes along.

I can't wait for the day when all of the Fitzes and Stetsons and Bens stop working for FedGuv because they're disgusted by their own complicity in the system that exists.  Sure, it'll take time for all of them to find different jobs.  It won't be overnight.  But that's the "shrug" that needs to happen to right this Ship of State.

Voting won't fix it.  Either in the ballot box or from the rooftops.

Two things will fix it:  Starving it by denying it taxes, and starving it by denying it competent manpower to implement its inanities.

Maybe both methods of starving it go hand in hand.


But without starving it, the inane evil stupidity of it all will continue, because government is a perpetual motion machine of inane, stupid, evil ideas born from the faulty assumption of ownership of the product of others, and justified theft.

[Balog]

All the competent folks quitting won't starve fed.gov, it'll just make it less efficient.

[French G.]

All the competent folks quitting won't starve fed.gov, it'll just make it less efficient.

Is it possible that a large organization becomes more efficient? It's always the guy who knows what's going on that is complaining about the stupid stuff, leaking illegal programs, innovating new ways that aren't in the book, etc. If everyone left just drones along...

[MechAg94]

But we were told by the government defenders right here in these very forums that the NSA is not sharing information with law enforcement - because the NSA said they're not.

When will we wake up - and I mean us here who supposedly have our guards up? 

Didn't I see a sig here quoting someone else here about how when you think someone can't be any more stupid they prove you wrong?  When we think the government could do no worse to us, they prove us wrong.  There's very little, or possibly nothing, that I would not believe bad about what our government will do to its own people.

Obama also said they weren't spying on Americans when that is certainlyi not true. 

[Levant]

Fed.gov is more limited by capability than intention. If they had the ability to do X awful thing they would, but thankfully they're fat and lazy and stupid and corrupt, on the whole. It's the few small pieces that are less incompetent that are scary.

Like most industries, Government does well what it cares most about doing.  Just because we see terribly stupid and even deadly failures by government, don't mistake that for the norm.  Those things government does really badly are things that they only pretend to care about.  Child welfare and protection, education, border protection - these are not things the government cares about doing well.  In fact, for many of these, there is specific intent to do them badly.

Although government fails miserably in protecting you, there is one thing that the government does extremely well: protecting government.  They do well at protecting government from threat.  And they have made it clear that it is folks like us here that they see as the biggest threat to government.  They will do a great job of watching we, the people.

[T.O.M.]

Fed.gov is more limited by capability than intention. If they had the ability to do X awful thing they would, but thankfully they're fat and lazy and stupid and corrupt, on the whole. It's the few small pieces that are less incompetent that are scary.

I've been a governtment employee of one kind or another since I was a 16 year old lifeguard at the city pool.  I can say without hesitation that you smacked that nail square.  The best workers are the ones with minimal authority, but work hard for lower wages, and don't play the politics game, so they don't get promoted.  The ones who climb the ladder and gain authority are lazy and motivated only by a desire to gain more authority, more pay, and climd even higher.  That's why I generally don't fear .gov as much as I worry about the Government.