Author Topic: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged  (Read 24309 times)

Boomhauer

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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2016, 06:53:09 AM »
I read about this on failbook this weekend (I have to stay away from that site, it leads me to telling off a lot of people =| ) and it seems that a very large % of responses were that there are more humans on this earth than gorillas so the gorilla's life is worth more than a human child's.

Anybody who's claiming that needs to be killed off
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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2016, 10:06:13 AM »
If mom can't teach junior to heel he should be on a leash.

This.  I've leashed or carried mine plenty of times when they couldn't be trusted around things a lot less dangerous than a bunch of gorillas.

TechMan

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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2016, 10:09:17 AM »
A good read
https://www.facebook.com/amanda.odonoughue/posts/1203379586363094


I am going to try to clear up a few things that have been weighing on me about Harambe and the Cinci Zoo since I read the news this afternoon.
I have worked with Gorillas as a zookeeper while in my twenties (before children) and they are my favorite animal (out of dozens) that I have ever worked closely with. I am gonna go ahead and list a few facts, thoughts and opinions for those of you that aren't familiar with the species itself, or how a zoo operates in emergency situations.
Now Gorillas are considered 'gentle giants' at least when compared with their more aggressive cousins the chimpanzee, but a 400+ pound male in his prime is as strong as roughly 10 adult humans. What can you bench press? OK, now multiply that number by ten. An adult male silverback gorilla has one job, to protect his group. He does this by bluffing or intimidating anything that he feels threatened by.
Gorillas are considered a Class 1 mammal, the most dangerous class of mammals in the animal kingdom, again, merely due to their size and strength. They are grouped in with other apes, tigers, lions, bears, etc.
While working in an AZA accredited zoo with Apes, keepers DO NOT work in contact with them. Meaning they do NOT go in with these animals. There is always a welded mesh barrier between the animal and the humans.
In more recent decades, zoos have begun to redesign enclosures, removing all obvious caging and attempting to create a seamless view of the animals for the visitor to enjoy watching animals in a more natural looking habitat. *this is great until little children begin falling into exhibits* which of course can happen to anyone, especially in a crowded zoo-like setting.
I have watched this video over again, and with the silverback's postering, and tight lips, it's pretty much the stuff of any keeper's nightmares, and I have had MANY while working with them. This job is not for the complacent. Gorillas are kind, curious, and sometimes silly, but they are also very large, very strong animals. I always brought my OCD to work with me. checking and rechecking locks to make sure my animals and I remained separated before entering to clean.
I keep hearing that the Gorilla was trying to protect the boy. I do not find this to be true. Harambe reaches for the boys hands and arms, but only to position the child better for his own displaying purposes.
Males do very elaborate displays when highly agitated, slamming and dragging things about. Typically they would drag large branches, barrels and heavy weighted balls around to make as much noise as possible. Not in an effort to hurt anyone or anything (usually) but just to intimidate. It was clear to me that he was reacting to the screams coming from the gathering crowd.
Harambe was most likely not going to separate himself from that child without seriously hurting him first (again due to mere size and strength, not malicious intent) Why didn't they use treats? well, they attempted to call them off exhibit (which animals hate), the females in the group came in, but Harambe did not. What better treat for a captive animal than a real live kid!
They didn't use Tranquilizers for a few reasons, A. Harambe would've taken too long to become immobilized, and could have really injured the child in the process as the drugs used may not work quickly enough depending on the stress of the situation and the dose B. Harambe would've have drowned in the moat if immobilized in the water, and possibly fallen on the boy trapping him and drowning him as well.
Many zoos have the protocol to call on their expertly trained dart team in the event of an animal escape or in the event that a human is trapped with a dangerous animal. They will evaluate the scene as quickly and as safely as possible, and will make the most informed decision as how they will handle the animal.
I can't point fingers at anyone in this situation, but we need to really evaluate the safety of the animal enclosures from the visitor side. Not impeding that view is a tough one, but their should be no way that someone can find themselves inside of an animal's exhibit.
I know one thing for sure, those keepers lost a beautiful, and I mean gorgeous silverback and friend. I feel their loss with them this week. As educators and conservators of endangered species, all we can do is shine a light on the beauty and majesty of these animals in hopes to spark a love and a need to keep them from vanishing from our planet. Child killers, they are not. It's unfortunate for the conservation of the species, and the loss of revenue a beautiful zoo such as Cinci will lose. tragedy all around.
*me working (very carefully) with a 400+ pound silverback circa 2009
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MechAg94

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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2016, 10:21:37 AM »
Shocked,  SHOCKED I tell you,  to discover ignorant assholery being perpetrated by the BLM goons...
BLACK LIVES MATTER!!!

Fur-less Lives Matter!

What are we talking about again?  ???
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T.O.M.

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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2016, 10:31:53 AM »
Good post Adively.  And, as I think this through, having heard/read more crap about how the Zoo should have put up better barricades to keep people out of the exhibit, I can't help but think about the fact that this exhibit it 38 years old.  For 38 years, the fence, and shrubbery, and freaking 20 foot deep pit with water at the bottom, did just fine keeping the people and the gorillas apart.  Of course, 38 years ago when I went to the zoo as a 10 year old, I never would have thought about trying to cross the fence.  I guess now at zoos (for as long as we get to have them before the SJWs convince enough people that zoos are nothing more than prisons for the poor wittle animals) will need to erect barricades to not only keep animals in, but keep people out.  Concertina wire will become de rigueur. 

God people are stupid. 
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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2016, 11:06:40 AM »
I can't help but think that had they tranked the spectators the outcome would have been better.
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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2016, 11:54:50 AM »
If mom can't teach junior to heel he should be on a leash.
I'm ok with the zoo pulling trigger because that gorilla situation could have gone bad so fast that nothing could have saved junior and nobody really knew what the 400 pound primate was thinking.

Done the leash thing before.  Not practical in many circumstances, though.  Such as multiple kiddos.

I read about this on failbook this weekend (I have to stay away from that site, it leads me to telling off a lot of people =| ) and it seems that a very large % of responses were that there are more humans on this earth than gorillas so the gorilla's life is worth more than a human child's.

It's *expletive deleted*it like this that has me praying for a zombie apocalypse or even S.M.O.D.

We have become un-rooted from any moral grounds these last 100 years.  What can you expect?




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makattak

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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2016, 11:57:43 AM »
I read about this on failbook this weekend (I have to stay away from that site, it leads me to telling off a lot of people =| ) and it seems that a very large % of responses were that there are more humans on this earth than gorillas so the gorilla's life is worth more than a human child's.
We have become un-rooted from any moral grounds these last 100 years.  What can you expect?

On the other hand, the lefties are showing a modicum of economic analysis.

Really, this is a breakthrough. We ought to be encouraging that.

(Just like you want to encourage the learning disabled when they are still wrong, but at least headed in the right way.)
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roo_ster

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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2016, 12:20:18 PM »
One other thing...

It is very possible that mom in this situation was an irresponsible POS who did not properly supervise her kid.  It is also very possible that mom was an on-the-ball gal who took her eyes off Junior for a moment to tend to her other kiddo and Junior took that moment to bum rush into the gorilla cage.

The fact is that little kiddos will manage to get out from parental observation at times.  All of them.  Unless one is wealthy enough to hire 24/7 supervision.  Because parents still have to sleep, drop trou, tend to other kiddos, pay the cashier, etc.  The difference is the frequency of such an event, usually dependent on how attentive is the parent. 

Zoos are generally considered much more kid-safe than, say, a downtown street.  And this (perhaps mistaken) belief in the generally safe nature of a zoo many times will result in looser rein (literally or figuratively) on the kiddos.
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roo_ster

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KD5NRH

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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2016, 12:31:07 PM »
Done the leash thing before.  Not practical in many circumstances, though.  Such as multiple kiddos.

Toyed with the idea of rigid yokes before my ex wife had her tubes tied after the second one.  Prevents the bola effect of multiple leashes.

Fortunately, by the time the oldest was about 4, she responded very well to command voice.  Now, she will also grab her sister if needed to make sure both obey a command.

Zoos are generally considered much more kid-safe than, say, a downtown street.  And this (perhaps mistaken) belief in the generally safe nature of a zoo many times will result in looser rein (literally or figuratively) on the kiddos.

In the last few days, I've seen three kids who couldn't have been over 12 playing completely unattended on the rocks at the edge of the *very* storm-swollen Bosque River at around 10:30PM in a closed section of the park, and a kid who might have been 5 riding a scooter down a residential street for at least three blocks just before rush hour.  No parents in sight, nor any indication the parents think there's anything wrong with it.  There have been a few parents taken to task over the years about turning their <10 year old kids loose in the park and leaving.  Their argument is always that it's a park, so it's supposed to be safe.  I can't imagine what would constitute a looser rein for these kids.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2016, 12:54:27 PM »
I thought we didn't like helicoptor parenting.   [popcorn]
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KD5NRH

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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2016, 01:08:34 PM »
I thought we didn't like helicoptor parenting.

That term really only applies when they're doing stuff where it would be appropriate for them to be unattended, or where they are properly attended by other adults.  Following a 12 year old 3-4 blocks would be excessive, but a 4-5 year old should never be out in public unsupervised.

brimic

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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2016, 01:49:12 PM »
On the other hand, the lefties are showing a modicum of economic analysis.

Really, this is a breakthrough. We ought to be encouraging that.

(Just like you want to encourage the learning disabled when they are still wrong, but at least headed in the right way.)


I saw a few posts that came really, really close to self-awareness and attacking the root of the problem amongst the anti human population screeds- a very low number of responses mentioned a stop to subsidized human breeding. Then again those few responses may have been conservatives trolling as animal rights activists....
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TechMan

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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2016, 02:13:58 PM »
Shocked,  SHOCKED I tell you,  to discover ignorant assholery being perpetrated by the BLM goons...

Like these idiots:
http://imgur.com/zwkSoJv
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2016, 02:15:58 PM »
One other thing...

It is very possible that mom in this situation was an irresponsible POS who did not properly supervise her kid.  It is also very possible that mom was an on-the-ball gal who took her eyes off Junior for a moment to tend to her other kiddo and Junior took that moment to bum rush into the gorilla cage.

The fact is that little kiddos will manage to get out from parental observation at times.  All of them.  Unless one is wealthy enough to hire 24/7 supervision.  Because parents still have to sleep, drop trou, tend to other kiddos, pay the cashier, etc.  The difference is the frequency of such an event, usually dependent on how attentive is the parent. 

Zoos are generally considered much more kid-safe than, say, a downtown street.  And this (perhaps mistaken) belief in the generally safe nature of a zoo many times will result in looser rein (literally or figuratively) on the kiddos.

agreed, and what's more, I'll add again, there is the age of "death wish". There are times when I'm watching Emily and I swear to god, she's like a bit of steel and everything that can kill her is a super magnet.

I honestly don't know how you guys do it 24/7.  :O
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2016, 02:59:41 PM »
agreed, and what's more, I'll add again, there is the age of "death wish". There are times when I'm watching Emily and I swear to god, she's like a bit of steel and everything that can kill her is a super magnet.

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makattak

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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2016, 03:50:47 PM »
agreed, and what's more, I'll add again, there is the age of "death wish". There are times when I'm watching Emily and I swear to god, she's like a bit of steel and everything that can kill her is a super magnet.

I honestly don't know how you guys do it 24/7.  :O

They have to sleep some time. (Although if they are just SUPPOSED to be asleep, you will find them trying to find ways for things like a bed to kill them.)
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Balog

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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #42 on: May 31, 2016, 03:53:12 PM »
Gorilla was born into captivity and the kid was black, so all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth about a wild animal killed to protect whitey is especially humorous.

I had no idea zoos had animal SWAT teams standing by with rifles, but it does make a lot of sense. I wonder how you apply for that job? One would think it'd be a lot like PMC's, mostly ex.mil combat vets.

If you want to see crazy hippy vitriol look up Matt Walsh'd twitter feed and the responses he's received for suggesting that human life is more valuable than a gorilla.

My oldest is four, and as other folks have said it is not physically possible to keep eyes on and prevent them from running off at all times.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #43 on: May 31, 2016, 05:02:36 PM »
If you want to see crazy hippy vitriol look up Matt Walsh'd twitter feed and the responses he's received for suggesting that human life is more valuable than a gorilla.

Oh, yeah, I guess so. After all, it's saying stuff like this that makes you a horrible person, obviously:

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Ben

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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2016, 05:11:36 PM »
I'm genuinely curious about the percentage of those who are currently outraged about the gorilla, who would be taking exactly the opposite outrage had the zoo done nothing and had the boy ended up seriously injured or dead. Especially given his race. I would then be interested in correlating how many in that percentage identified as SJWs.
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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #45 on: May 31, 2016, 05:23:23 PM »
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Hawkmoon - Never underestimate another person's capacity for stupidity. Any time you think someone can't possibly be that dumb ... they'll prove you wrong.

Bacon and Eggs - A day's work for a chicken; A lifetime commitment for a pig.
Stupidity will always be its own reward.
Bad decisions make good stories.

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MechAg94

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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #46 on: May 31, 2016, 06:24:50 PM »
Gorilla was born into captivity and the kid was black, so all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth about a wild animal killed to protect whitey is especially humorous.

I had no idea zoos had animal SWAT teams standing by with rifles, but it does make a lot of sense. I wonder how you apply for that job? One would think it'd be a lot like PMC's, mostly ex.mil combat vets.

If you want to see crazy hippy vitriol look up Matt Walsh'd twitter feed and the responses he's received for suggesting that human life is more valuable than a gorilla.

My oldest is four, and as other folks have said it is not physically possible to keep eyes on and prevent them from running off at all times.
Your title would be Gorilla Sniper, but you could just tell everyone you are a Guerrilla Sniper. 
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #47 on: May 31, 2016, 06:28:45 PM »
Very interesting that we (as a society) see this as something to get in a row over, instead of a story with a happy ending. Not that anyone should be glad that an animal died,* but no one seems very interested in the fact that a child's life was saved. (And saved with a rifle, FWIW.)


*Well, I'm quite glad for animals to die, when I get to eat them. but I digress...
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #48 on: May 31, 2016, 07:23:43 PM »
Another interesting viewpoint, very good read.
https://writerdreamerbeliever.wordpress.com/2016/05/30/if-its-yours-its-yours/

Yes, but also harsh. By those standards, every parent fails at least once or twice (and usually a lot more)

I have scars from a couple of those failures. That doesn't mean my mother was a complete failure at parenting. It just means I was a kid and she's a parent, and that's part of life.  =| *expletive deleted*it happens.

I think this blog writer does exactly what she rants about people shouldn't do at the beginning of her blog. She is looking for someone to blame. It's a very hypocritical piece.
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Angel Eyes

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Re: Zoo kills gorilla, people outraged
« Reply #49 on: May 31, 2016, 07:35:05 PM »

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