100 MPG cars...

[Tecumseh]

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/landingpage.aspx?cp-documentid=450035&landing=hybrids&topart=hybrids&icid=364&GT1=10861

Interesting. 

[Boomhauer]

I'm pretty sure that 100 MPG cars have been built before...

Only, no good for daily use. One person only, no storage space, stripped down, etc.

Not very much of anything.

Everybody is hollering about electric cars...not much use to me, though. And what happens when the batteries "go flat" like normal electronics batteries? Expensive to replace...

If they could actually produce a 100mpg car that can seat four and do the tasks of a normal vehicles, I'd like to see it. But I think that the ~40 MPG cars that you see these days are about as far as you can push a conventional engined vehicle.

[Tecumseh]

But what if we continued further development of the technology?  Eventually we could come up wth bigger, better, and more efficient vehicles.

I do see a lot of cars with only the driver, imagine it as a daily driver for home to work and places where you will be going alone and not taking any cargo.

[Boomhauer]

Oh, but I have cargo every day.

Bookbag
Dufflebag
uniform
Rifle
Ammo
Tools
Groceries.

My stuff easily fills the backseat of a Chevy extended cab truck.

[Tecumseh]

Ah but do you always have that much stuff with you?

[Boomhauer]

Well, yeah, considering I have to go to work and school and all that.

And breaking down in the middle of nowhere isn't any fun, and even less fun calling a tow truck for $150 when I can limp home with what I have in the truck.

And I want my rifle with me. I can't carry a pistol, so a rifle it is.

[ilbob]

my guess is that a useful, general purpose vehicle with comfortable seating for 5 normal sized people that gets 100 mpg is probably not possible.

however, no reasone you could not build them mostly for commuters and driving around town. I would bet a lot of driving is one person 20 miles or less.

a lot of families would buy a 1 or 2 person vehicle for the short 1 or 2 person hops, and an SUV for serious driving.

there is an issue that is rarely mentioned. if we do manage to come up with higher mileage vehicles, motor fuel taxes will have to skyrocket. probably add 75 cents to a dollar to every gallon of motor fuel sold just to get the same amount of revenue for roads.

[Brad Johnson]

100 mpg would be a snap ... if that darned thing called "physics" wasn't getting in the way.  Aerodynamic forces dictate X amount of force needed to overcome Y amount of drag at Z speed.

Drag, in and of itself isn't a problem.  If the vehicle was pencil thin, rode on extremely low-rolling-resistance wheels, and had an insanely low Cd of say, .10 or some such, 100 mpg would be no problem.  Unfortunately, building something that will hold passengers, their stuff, and the propulsion system dictates that ain't going to be the case.  You would also need a propulsion system engineered for maximum efficiency at that particular engine speed (which usually also dictates maximum power output at the same speed).  A high efficiency gas turbine would actually be the perfect power plant if you had one that produced exactly the power needed to maintain a given speed.  Problem is, at any speed other than that exact speed, everything crumbles into mayhem.

Interesting concept, and I don't doubt someone will do it, but just how feasible or practical it will be is highly questionable.

Brad

[Bogie]

In the 11 years I've owned my Mitsubishi, there have been TWO people in the back seat, for less than 150 miles total.
 
I'd jump on a "single passenger vehicle." Or even something where you could put one guy in front, and one guy behind. Stick a motorcycle engine in it, maybe in a trike-type arrangement. Tube cage, and you're done.
 

[MillCreek]

I am with Bogie.  I have the Ford Escape, and Ms. MillCreek has the Mercedes 200 class sedan, and most of the time, they are driven as single-occupant vehicles about 10 miles each way to work.  I would be thrilled to have an ultra fuel efficient and safe single occupant vehicle for the daily commute. 

[Bogie]

And guys, I used to drive a VW bus. The air-cooled type. The commuter car does NOT need to be fast - it just needs to be.
 
I want a comfy seat, controls where I can reach them/see them, and a decent radio. That's pretty much it.

I'm thinking a 750/1000 cc engine would be enough. Steel cage, fiberglass shell.
 
Hmmm... Running a single electric drive wheel in the rear, how much juice do you think I'd need to throw at it? A generator/battery combo might be a thought.
 
Just how much power does an electric motor of this size need?

[mtnbkr]

Current Toyota Corollas get 40+ on the highway using an auto transmission with the AC on (my parents get 45+), get over 30 around town, have decent power, space, and all the bells and whistles most people would want.

It uses conventional technology.

It isn't as cool as a hybrid though.

Chris

[Bogie]

So, what happens when you take that Corolla, cut the body size, cut a few of the bells and whistles, and cut the engine size a little?
 
Betcha you could get it up to 60mpg for a two seater...
 

[Manedwolf]

These ideas of "micro cars" would be fun to watch in snow. They'd just go poof and get stuck, and sit there as all the people in normal-sized vehicles passed them.

Oh, yeah, and good luck getting a heater to work well in something that tiny.

[Bogie]

Why do people think they need something heavy in snow?
 
I drive _over_ the snow, not through it. Works a LOT better.
 

[Manedwolf]

I'm just never going to be interested in a tiny car, ever. If I wanted that, I'd have wanted to live in East Germany or something, where they had those horrible Trabants.

I like room for a good sound system, room to fill a trunk with groceries, and a low and wide chassis to handle turns. I have no desire to be a speed bump for SUVs, either.

[ilbob]

I'm just never going to be interested in a tiny car, ever. If I wanted that, I'd have wanted to live in East Germany or something, where they had those horrible Trabants.

I like room for a good sound system, room to fill a trunk with groceries, and a low and wide chassis to handle turns. I have no desire to be a speed bump for SUVs, either.

To each his own. But I would be willing to bet a decent 1 or 2 passenger car with 80 to 100 mpg, and selling for $6000 or so, would sell a lot of copies. A lot of commuters would love it. And the gas savings would pay for it. you could even keep your SUV for non-commuting times and the gas savings would still pay for the commuting only car.

[Manedwolf]

I'm just never going to be interested in a tiny car, ever. If I wanted that, I'd have wanted to live in East Germany or something, where they had those horrible Trabants.

I like room for a good sound system, room to fill a trunk with groceries, and a low and wide chassis to handle turns. I have no desire to be a speed bump for SUVs, either.

To each his own. But I would be willing to bet a decent 1 or 2 passenger car with 80 to 100 mpg, and selling for $6000 or so, would sell a lot of copies. A lot of commuters would love it. And the gas savings would pay for it. you could even keep your SUV for non-commuting times and the gas savings would still pay for the commuting only car.

Uh-huh. I think people try it and forget over and over every couple of decades.



Extreme fuel mileage = itty bitty horsepower = you can't get the hell out of the way of things when you really really need to. Or hybrid with expensive electric motors + expensive batteries + fire departments can't pull you out after a crash till they get someone to make sure it's safe.

No thanks. My full-sized Accord gets me 30mpg highway, and is comfortable, agile and powerful. Good enough for me.

Also...and this will likely never change. An itty bitty car does not impress most women, apart from patchouli-smelling treehuggers.  To most others, it's like someone who still uses a laundromat after age 30. It means you've not succeeded yet.

Or to put it more succinctly...you're not gonna get any, driving this:

[Declaration Day]

How about one of these?  http://jalopnik.com/343003/the-2500-tata-nano-unveiled-in-india

It claims 54 MPG, which is not significantly better than the Hyundai Accent I recently sold.  That car had four seats, a trunk, and an engine that had plenty of power for its size.  I could get 45MPG on the freeway with it.

What is significant is its price.  $2500!  I'm sure that if they made it here, Federal regulations would jack the price up to double that.  I could never trade my pickup for one, but I'd buy one for city commuting.

[Bogie]

Thing is, I'm not buying a car in hopes that it'll get me laid. I'm buying it to get from Point A to Point B. And that's pretty much it.
 
I like little cars. They're easy to park. They're easy to maneuver around tight spots. I can do a U-turn in a relatively small area.
 
Used to know a guy who drove a large caddy... New one, every couple of years. The appearance of success was very important to him. Why? I have no freakin' clue - the guy was an accountant. And not self-employed either (having to "look successful" can be a part of success in some businesses). He _had_ to know the kind of depreciation his fixation on "auto as extension of self" was costing him... Could probably have lived in a MUCH nicer house if he cut the car thing back, but hey... Some folks believe the advertising.
 
If I have to tow something, I use my van. It's going on 13 years old. Works fine. If I have to do a car road trip, I rent something - for $100, I can get an Avis Chevy Impala Rolling Living Room that gets 30mpg on the highway, and put a thousand miles on it in a weekend without twitching.
 

[Manedwolf]

I like little cars. They're easy to park. They're easy to maneuver around tight spots. I can do a U-turn in a relatively small area.

Of course. They'll fit anywhere. 

[roo_ster]

Ever see an off-country* auto in a crash test?  Not pretty.

Folks have tried to sell itty bity autos every decade or so.  They usually don't sell well, even when subsidies** are used.

To each his own. But I would be willing to bet a decent 1 or 2 passenger car with 80 to 100 mpg, and selling for $6000 or so

Sounds like a 250cc street bike.



* china, India, etc.

** To make CAFE regs, some auto makers will intentionally mark down the price of their small autos.

[roo_ster]

I like little cars. They're easy to park. They're easy to maneuver around tight spots. I can do a U-turn in a relatively small area.

Of course. They'll fit anywhere. 

But, but ,but ,but it had a 5-star crash rating!  (The driver & passenger lived a microsecond or two longer than the itty btty auto that got the 3-star crash rating would have.)

Physics is a biatch. 

=========

I am not anti-little car.  I am just not so taken by tham as others, it seems.

If you want 50+ MPG, I am sure there are still manual shift 3-cyl Geo Metros in the used auto listings.  I recall the 3 door got 52 or 54 MPG.

[Declaration Day]

One of my dad's friends had a LeCar 25 years ago.  It was the same color as the one in that top picture.  One day the engine spontaneously combusted in front of our house.   

[Bogie]

Yeah, but it was a renault.

If you were riding a motorcycle and that truck hit you, you'd be in just as bad shape.
 
If you were in a Corolla or an Accord, you'd still be squashed.
 
The object isn't to play bumper cars. It's to get Out Of The Way.