100 MPG cars...

[Manedwolf]

Yeah, but it was a renault.

If you were riding a motorcycle and that truck hit you, you'd be in just as bad shape.
 
If you were in a Corolla or an Accord, you'd still be squashed.
 
The object isn't to play bumper cars. It's to get Out Of The Way.

Maybe old ones.

My Accord's dimensions are 16x6 feet, curb weight of almost 3000 lbs. Unless it climbed up over it, it'd likely just get shoved out of the way. They stopped being a "little" car some years ago. 

[MechAg94]

Well, my truck is paid for.  I commute less than 10 miles now.  If I had to transfer back to a job commuting in to work, I would seriously consider a fuel efficient car.  I doubt I would get something quite that small.  A guy at work here has a diesel VW Jetta that gets really good mileage.  Diesel isn't cheap, but gas isn't far off.  I could see myself getting that or a small pickup/SUV with the best mileage I could find. 

The main thing I like about my truck in traffic is that I am sitting tall enough that I can normally see what is going on ahead of the car in front of me.  That helps prevent some accidents.

[Scout26]

IF they could just be powered by a Mr. Fusion we'd be all set.

[doc2rn]

I think that the ~40 MPG cars that you see these days are about as far as you can push a conventional engined vehicle.

I would have to disagree. The 1987 Dodge Omni I bought got 39 in town and 49 on the highway. The 1989 Dodge Charger 2.2 I bought after my brother wrecked my car got 39 in town and closer to 52 highway. The decision to make cars heavier and molded like a cockpit on the inside moved the auto industry away from economy to luxury. Not to mention big oil has bought stakes in all the major auto makers. Where is the incentive to make a cost effective auto?

[Fjolnirsson]

http://www.smartusa.com/

Strange. Looking at the technical info, they're only claiming 45 or so highway miles per gallon. Now, looking at that little thing, I would expect it to be more on the line of 60-80MPG, given the size difference n comparison to say, a Corolla...

Wonder what the deal is there?

[Iain]

The new Audi R8 6.0 litre diesel is Cali legal, so diesels are coming to you guys. I've said before that my fathers Vauxhall Vectra hatchback (mondeo/passat/accord rival) 2.2 td has averaged nearly 48mpg over 60,000 miles in the last three years. His next car on order is the new Renault Laguna estate, 2.0 td, 30 more horsepower than the Vectra and should get slightly more mpg. Some of the little 1.4's are getting 60+.

Citroen has a diesel hybrid in development that is pushing very close to 100mpg - link

[Declaration Day]

I sat in one of those Smart cars at the North American International Auto Show last month.  A neat gadget, for sure, but not a good deal.  There are several good new, 4-seater compacts on the market that can be had for the price of a Smart, with similar fuel economy to boot.

Iain:

Opels / Vauxhalls are sold as Saturns here, so we know the Opel Vectra as the Saturn Aura.  It probably has a few styling changes but is essentially an identical car.

[280plus]

If the whole country would take a giant step towards public transportation you wouldn't be having this discussion. That's the real solution. To see the thousands upon thousands of cars stuck in traffic every day commuting back and forth from Hartford, each one with a single occupant, is just laughable. Alleviate that alone and you'll see gas prices plummet. The whole situation is self induced by all those who refuse to pool up one way or another and MUSt each drive their own car to work. They built an HOV lane here on I-84. What a wonderful idea! First it was three or more occupants to qualify, the lane was a ghost town. So they lowered it to two occupants. The lane is STILL a ghost town. We're talking YEARS now, still very little use. Go figger...

 

[Manedwolf]

Won't do public transportation, either. And if they ask for more of my taxpayer dollars for the waste of money known as "trains", I'll vote NO.

In Boston, there's regularly gang executions on MBTA buses.

On other buses, you have to deal with such joys as an unidentified wet spot on a seat, the reeking homeless guy generating a noxious cloud, the two groups of guys with their "colors" scowling at each other making you hope you're not in between them, the 600lb lady taking up two seats while filling out this month's welfare paperwork, the meth twitches and crack addicts looking bug-eyed at people...

Oh, and whatever the third-world disease of the month is? You're breathing it. Enjoy.

Basically, whatever segment of humanity wishes to board, including the lowest common denominator, trapped in a small, rocking metal tube with hot, stale air.

I'll be in my car, thanks. With the doors locked, the climate control on, and a nice, powerful audio system. I work so I can afford and enjoy things like that every day, so the commute is a pleasure, not a third-world ordeal.

As regards Connecticut and the Hartford area, every time I've passed through that area, it's a mess of road construction destruction that causes the traffic nightmare. Perhaps if they finished the highway and left it alone, that'd solve a lot of problems?

[Declaration Day]

I'll be in my car, thanks. With the doors locked, the climate control on, and a nice, powerful audio system. I work so I can afford and enjoy things like that every day, so the commute is a pleasure, not a third-world ordeal.

Agreed.

I read a really good article once about the psychological importance of having your own car.  Something about it being the only environment that you're in complete control of for a couple of hours per day.  If I can dig it up, I'll post it.

[AmbulanceDriver]

I've done both the public transit thing and the drive yourself thing.

Here in Portland, Tri-Met (the regional transit authority) is nothing more than a sinkhole for money.  I mostly rode the bus when it was too much of a hassle to try to find parking downtown.  And even then, it was primarily when I was going to college downtown.  Because the bus was conveniently close (5 block walk to the stop near my house) and it dropped me off right in front of the school.  Plus I could do a little review on the way in if I really needed to (not that it ever actually worked.  Was too busy paying attention to the methhead eyeing my backpack or avoiding getting trampled during the commute into town...  that bus got packed).  The other downside was that it took 2-3 times as long to get down there than just driving myself.  And now, for my commute into work, It's only about 5 miles, but I drive because I have to be here at 0600, and leave here at 1800.  I don't want to have to wait 15 extra minutes on either end just to avoid driving, and then have to leave the house for a commute 3 or 4 times longer than if I drove myself.  Because at that time of the morning, it only takes me 10 minutes to drive to work, as opposed to 30 or 40 minutes if I took the bus.  I'd rather spend that extra half an hour snuggled up next to my wife, thank you very much!

[Sergeant Bob]

Yeah, but it was a renault.

If you were riding a motorcycle and that truck hit you, you'd be in just as bad shape.
 
If you were in a Corolla or an Accord, you'd still be squashed.
 
The object isn't to play bumper cars. It's to get Out Of The Way.

Maybe old ones.

My Accord's dimensions are 16x6 feet, curb weight of almost 3000 lbs. Unless it climbed up over it, it'd likely just get shoved out of the way. They stopped being a "little" car some years ago. 

Wishful thinking will not save your "3000 lb Accord". Maybe you don't consider 3000 lbs a "little" car but, to an 80,000 lb (thats about 27 times the weight of your Accord) truck it doesn't matter if you're driving a Pious or an Accord.

Don't try to convince us, try to convince the truck.

[Teknoid]

Yeah, but it was a renault.

If you were riding a motorcycle and that truck hit you, you'd be in just as bad shape.
 
If you were in a Corolla or an Accord, you'd still be squashed.
 
The object isn't to play bumper cars. It's to get Out Of The Way.

Maybe old ones.

My Accord's dimensions are 16x6 feet, curb weight of almost 3000 lbs. Unless it climbed up over it, it'd likely just get shoved out of the way. They stopped being a "little" car some years ago. 

Wishful thinking will not save your "3000 lb Accord". Maybe you don't consider 3000 lbs a "little" car but, to an 80,000 lb (thats about 27 times the weight of your Accord) truck it doesn't matter if you're driving a Pious or an Accord.

Don't try to convince us, try to convince the truck.

I drive an SUV, and wouldn't want to find out what being rear-ended by the monster in that pic would feel like. It would definitely leave a mark!

[Ben]

The new Audi R8 6.0 litre diesel is Cali legal

Iain -- do you know what the emission technology is that Audi used to make it CA legal? I ask because I have a diesel that meets the 2008 CA emission standards, and the technology they used to make the emissions clean (cleaner than gasoline engines actually) reduced the fuel efficiency over the previous year's model by at least 25%. So the diesel for fuel economy thing is killed. If I could run straight biodiesel, that wouldn't be as much of an issue, however because of the design mods to run the ULSD diesel fuel, the injector manufacturer will void my warranty if I use greater than B5 (due to possibly clogging injectors, etc.).

[Manedwolf]

Once it gets US clearance, I suspect Honda's new turbodiesel design will set the standards. It doesn't sound like a coffeegrinder when it's idling, it has good power, and it does not require urea injection, which was a total kludge (and something else to break) that some other companies have introduced.

[Sergeant Bob]

Oh yeah, diesel is coming!

Audi Diesel Wins Twelve Hours of Sebring Race
19 March 2006
V12_tdi
The aluminum V12 TDI

Audi made racing history on Saturday as its diesel-powered Audi R10 TDI won the Mobil 1 Twelve Hours of Sebring, becoming the first diesel car in the world to win a major sports car race. Audi used Sebring as a test for the 24 Hours of Le Mans race, set for June 17-18.

The new Audi R10 TDI is powered by a completely new all-aluminum, 5.5-liter, twelve-cylinder bi-turbo TDI engine that delivers more than 485 kW (650 hp) and more than 1,100 Nm of torque.

The V12 TDI used in the R10 is the first Audi diesel engine with an aluminium crankcase. The cylinder-bank angle is 90 degrees. The V12 TDI has, like Audi production car engines, four valves per cylinder and twin overhead camshafts. The common rail fuel injection system exceeds 1,600 bar, and ignition pressures reach values never previously seen in any Audi engine. The V12 TDI is equipped with a pair of diesel particle filters.

    This engine is the specifically most powerful diesel there is in the world and, up until now, the biggest challenge that Audi Sport has ever faced in its long history. There has never been anything remotely comparable. We started development with a clean sheet of paper.
    Ulrich Baretzky, Head of Engine Technology at Audi Sport

Audi wants to use its diesel work in motorsport to increase its technology advantages in the commercial diesel engines. Every second Audi sold today is delivered with a TDI diesel engine.

    With regard to fuel consumption, environmental friendliness, the combustion process and other new technologies we expect an enormous push in the coming years. We are still relatively close to the findings of our colleagues from production since we are breaking completely new ground in motorsport. However, this will change. I believe to be able to share the things that we developed specifically for motorsport with production in the future.
    Ulrich Baretzky

[Bogie]

Make a small car so it's not lugging around an extra 500-1000 pounds of ancillary BS, and you're starting to get there... Use "off the shelf" parts - keep new production tooling to a minimum. Make stuff easily accessible for maintenance. Function is more important than form. Think Ikea rather than Mercedes... But comfort, etc., _can_ be addressed. There's no reason, other than dealer markup, that a decent sound system has to cost a thousand dollars, for instance.
 

[mfree]

The trouble with diesel is that combustion temperatures when running most efficiently produce a WHOLE lot of nitrogen dioxides, and if you turn up the fuel to drop temps, you make a whole lot of particulates.

So you either get rid of NOx (urea injection) or filter particulates and cut mileage (Ford powerstroke et.al.)

If they have a cat that cracks NOx, that's the winner right there. Otherwise it's a bodge.

[280plus]

Well, you see, if more people used the public transportation system(s) they would have more money to do things like make improvements, instead of sucking money out of the gov't. And the attitudes shown in the responses here are not unusual by any means and demonstrate why it will never ever change. There's lip service to saving energy etc etc but then there's also taking action. Besides, I never said you had to take the bus, how about grouping up with fellow workers and pooling it in, alternating who drives? Think of the $ you could each save if you only drove in once every 4-5 workdays instead of 5 times a week. You could use the HOV lane! No traffic over there!   

Perhaps if they finished the highway and left it alone, that'd solve a lot of problems?

WHAT!?! AND RUIN EVERYBODYS FUN!?! Especially the mob owned construction companies and crooked pols? Perish the thought!! This is CT dammit!!

Actually, there hasn't been much going on as far as highway construction around Hartford in a while. They did and enormous project about 1985ish (when they added the useless HOV lanes) and now we have  BIG BEAUTIFUL HIGHWAYS! All kinds of lanes!! Problem is, the streets in Hartford never got any bigger and are not capable of handling anymore traffic than they could damn near 100 years ago, you know, when things like horses and buggys tooled around. So we can get the 10 pounds of poop over to the 9 pound bag much better than we used to but we STILL can't fit it all into the bag so good. Still, people persist in driving one per car while the very nice and very expensive HOV lane remains idle to this day. NOBODY takes advantage of it.

Another reason, which goes back even further, is because of a woman named Grace Fox Auerbach. You may recognize her by her abbreviated name, G Fox. Grace Fox had a LOTTA pull in Hartford. Enough pull so that when they were going to build a new intersection between 91 and 84 outside of Hartford and nowhere near her store, SHE HAD THE INTERSECTION MOVED!! I don't know if the structure still stands but thanks to Grace 91 and 84 intersect right in front of what used to be the G Fox store in Hartford. Smack dab in the middle of town. Grace is dead now, she doesn't really care. That move on her part is mainly why things are the way they are in Hartford today, and will remain so forever more.

How's THAT for some 'splanations? 

[Tecumseh]

Won't do public transportation, either. And if they ask for more of my taxpayer dollars for the waste of money known as "trains", I'll vote NO.

In Boston, there's regularly gang executions on MBTA buses.

On other buses, you have to deal with such joys as an unidentified wet spot on a seat, the reeking homeless guy generating a noxious cloud, the two groups of guys with their "colors" scowling at each other making you hope you're not in between them, the 600lb lady taking up two seats while filling out this month's welfare paperwork, the meth twitches and crack addicts looking bug-eyed at people...

Oh, and whatever the third-world disease of the month is? You're breathing it. Enjoy.

Basically, whatever segment of humanity wishes to board, including the lowest common denominator, trapped in a small, rocking metal tube with hot, stale air.

I'll be in my car, thanks. With the doors locked, the climate control on, and a nice, powerful audio system. I work so I can afford and enjoy things like that every day, so the commute is a pleasure, not a third-world ordeal.

As regards Connecticut and the Hartford area, every time I've passed through that area, it's a mess of road construction destruction that causes the traffic nightmare. Perhaps if they finished the highway and left it alone, that'd solve a lot of problems?

  You do realize that a while ago we did use public transportation much more in the early part of the century than before.  The trolley cars, buses, and subways used to be the way to travel.  If we worked toward marketing Amtrak as an efficeient way to travel as well as local public systems we would be seeing more usage. 

Ironically, who bought out the public transportation systems?  Take a guess.

[Manedwolf]

Amtrak is a collosal subsidized money suck that should have had its funding cut off many years ago. It will never be "efficient" because it's a giant big-government bureaucracy full of useless outdated bureaucrats. Someday, a conservative might grow a pair and actually cut off the funding, but I'm not holding my breath.

You do realize that a while ago we did use public transportation much more in the early part of the century than before.

You mean before Henry Ford made the family automobile affordable? No kidding. So? People couldn't afford to have a car before the Model T. Then, when they could, they started using cars instead. Before that, automobiles were for the rich, and the poor and middle class were herded onto public transit.

You arguing against transportation egalitarianism?

[Bogie]

Where do you think the term "station wagon" came from? It was the car that was used to drive Joe Hubby to the station in the morning, so he could get on his train and go into town and earn a living...
 

[Tecumseh]

Amtrak is a collosal subsidized money suck that should have had its funding cut off many years ago. It will never be "efficient" because it's a giant big-government bureaucracy full of useless outdated bureaucrats. Someday, a conservative might grow a pair and actually cut off the funding, but I'm not holding my breath.

You do realize that a while ago we did use public transportation much more in the early part of the century than before.

You mean before Henry Ford made the family automobile affordable? No kidding. So? People couldn't afford to have a car before the Model T. Then, when they could, they started using cars instead. Before that, automobiles were for the rich, and the poor and middle class were herded onto public transit.

You arguing against transportation egalitarianism?

  Not at all.  I am saying a few things.  If we actually let a private business (NOT A NO BID CONTRACT!!!) run Amtrak for profit we might see profit. 

As far as the automobile, I believe that Ford bought them up to shut them down so people would be forced to drive his car.  It was a good business practice on his part.  People had no choice but to buy cars. 

[MechAg94]

Public Transportation?  Ha!!  I live 40 miles from the nearest public transportation.  There is no public transportation anywhere near me.  Y'all do realize that the only people you are bitching at are people who live and commute in big cities right? 

I like to think about the guys who live near Freeport or Texas City or Pasadena and work in chemical plants.  I see them commuting 40 miles or more across back roads and such to get to work at various chemical plants.  Somehow those chemical plant areas that hire all sorts of people are rarely factored in to public transportation plans.  The trains in Houston run from the Football Stadium to Downtown.  Why?  So some idiot mayor could make a half hearted attempt at the Olympics.  They had half a dozen car wrecks with that train system before they even allowed passengers. 


Also, Houston has HOV lanes.  They are well used and often moving just a slow as the regular traffic.  They also are set up to take people to down town.  Not everyone works there.  Houston is pretty spread out.

[Tecumseh]

Yeah, but it was a renault.

If you were riding a motorcycle and that truck hit you, you'd be in just as bad shape.
 
If you were in a Corolla or an Accord, you'd still be squashed.
 
The object isn't to play bumper cars. It's to get Out Of The Way.

Maybe old ones.

My Accord's dimensions are 16x6 feet, curb weight of almost 3000 lbs. Unless it climbed up over it, it'd likely just get shoved out of the way. They stopped being a "little" car some years ago. 

Wishful thinking will not save your "3000 lb Accord". Maybe you don't consider 3000 lbs a "little" car but, to an 80,000 lb (thats about 27 times the weight of your Accord) truck it doesn't matter if you're driving a Pious or an Accord.

Don't try to convince us, try to convince the truck.

I drive an SUV, and wouldn't want to find out what being rear-ended by the monster in that pic would feel like. It would definitely leave a mark!

  Not if both of you are driving one...