Save the children from their parents

[Perd Hapley]

I keep hearing that children being kept home from school are at greater risk of child abuse.

The summit, led by “experts,” will focus especially on “educational deprivation and child maltreatment that too often occur under the guise of homeschooling, in a legal environment of minimal or no oversight.”

https://www.dailywire.com/news/walsh-harvard-professor-makes-the-case-for-homeschool-ban-heres-everything-wrong-with-her-argument

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/coronavirus-isolation-can-escalate-child-abuse-in-miami-11623173

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2020/apr/13/surge-in-domestic-abuse-feared-20200413/

So are we to believe that children are in greater danger when being cared for by their own families than under the watchful eye of our all-benevolent government? Are we to believe that public schools are the ones who "oversee" children's well-being by their own families, instead of the reverse?

Now I get that the loss of income or the frustrations of this very unusual period may increase the risk of child abuse, but that's not what's being blamed here.

[MillCreek]

I think that in many cases, homeschooling can be of benefit to children, and my wife the elementary school teacher helps out a lot of our friends who do homeschooling to some degree or another.  Having said that, anyone who works in pediatrics or law enforcement can describe cases of physical or mental child abuse that occurred under the guise of homeschooling as a way to keep the abuse from being discovered.  I am not sure what the answer is.

[Ben]

Is it the same study that said this:

Harvard Law School is officially hosting an anti-homeschooling conference in June.

Professor James Dwyer organized the conference.

He claims "The reason parent-child relationships exist is because the State confers legal parenthood."

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2020/04/20/prof-organizing-anti-homeschooling-conference-parent-child-relationships-exist-because-the-state-confers-legal-parenthood/

[Perd Hapley]

I think that in many cases, homeschooling can be of benefit to children, and my wife the elementary school teacher helps out a lot of our friends who do homeschooling to some degree or another.  Having said that, anyone who works in pediatrics or law enforcement can describe cases of physical or mental child abuse that occurred under the guise of homeschooling as a way to keep the abuse from being discovered.  I am not sure what the answer is.

Home-schooling is only a small aspect of it. The question is, are children safer with their own parents, or with "experts" and professionals not related to them? If there's any doubt as to the answer, there's something deeply wrong with us that government can't fix. I don't mean, "are they better educated?" I mean, are they more safe from abuse?

[MillCreek]

In that case, perhaps there is something deeply wrong with me, because I cannot agree with your statement that children are always safer with their parents as an absolute.  Most of the time, yes.  All of the time, heck no.  I have called Child Protective Services way too many times to believe that and cheered when children were saved from abusive parents.  We have discussed many such cases of abuse in this very forum.  Abuse of children happens from the parents, and it happens from the teachers, doctors and Scoutmasters. 

[Perd Hapley]

In that case, perhaps there is something deeply wrong with me, because I cannot agree with your statement that children are always safer with their parents as an absolute.

Given we're talking about vast numbers of children being home from school I think that should have clued you in I was talking about "most of the time."

[Hawkmoon]

The trouble with sweeping generalities is that they're sweeping generalities.

[zxcvbob]

The trouble with sweeping generalities is that they're sweeping generalities.

Well, usually. 

[Perd Hapley]

The trouble with sweeping generalities is that they're sweeping generalities.

Is there a sweeping generality in this discussion? 

[Angel Eyes]

https://www.9news.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/calls-to-child-abuse-hotline-down-more-than-40-percent/73-6363085c-44f0-4ed1-bc87-005da652f59d

In the Denver area, not nationwide data.  The counter-argument is that since the kids aren't in school, abuse is harder to detect, similar to the claims in the first post.

[Perd Hapley]

https://www.9news.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/calls-to-child-abuse-hotline-down-more-than-40-percent/73-6363085c-44f0-4ed1-bc87-005da652f59d

In the Denver area, not nationwide data.  The counter-argument is that since the kids aren't in school, abuse is harder to detect, similar to the claims in the first post.

Understandable.

[Northwoods]

I think that in many cases, homeschooling can be of benefit to children, and my wife the elementary school teacher helps out a lot of our friends who do homeschooling to some degree or another.  Having said that, anyone who works in pediatrics or law enforcement can describe cases of physical or mental child abuse that occurred under the guise of homeschooling as a way to keep the abuse from being discovered.  I am not sure what the answer is.

I don't think anybody is trying argue in absolutes.  Some kids are certainly abused at home, and the perps "homeschool" to keep it from being discovered.  But that is a tiny fraction of homeschool kids.  A more meaningful question would be, what percentage of kids are homeschooled to facilitate abuse vs the percentage of kids abused by teachers/administrators/other kids at school?

I know of 1 family that homeschooled largely because the dad was sexually abusive to 6 of the 7 kids (why not the 1, I have no idea).  That man was still in prison last I heard, turned in by the pastor when the abuse came to light.  The mom continued to homeschool afterwards, though with a lot of outside observation that she requested. 

But I know of several families that homeschooled for at least a year or two if not longer, because of severe bullying their child was subjected to that the school refused to address.  I don't personally know anyone who was willing to tell me they were abused directly by a teacher/administrator, but they're in the news too often.

And I know of MANY people abused by various adults in their life without legal consequences (even though reported in some cases) who went to public school the whole time.

In other words, homeschool vs public school is not really a factor in the odds of a child being abused.  If it is a factor my money is on homeschool being safer overall.  Abusers will find a way to abuse, no matter the schooling choices made available.

[AZRedhawk44]

Public education exposes children to more risk than homeschooling, when it comes to abuse.

Home exists 99.99% of the time for kids anyways.  One or two parents, or state custodianship in a foster home, whatever.  It's a constant.  Abuse in that environment, if it's going to happen, is unavoidable (if the parent/guardian is an abuser, public schooling won't prevent it).

But attending public school introduces dozens of new vectors for potential abuse, that homeschooled kids aren't exposed to.

Furthermore, homeschooled kids are typically given a more skeptical view towards external authority figures outside of the home, than public schooled kids get.  Pretty hard for external adults to molest homeschooled kids that know they don't have to do what some random stranger tells them to do. 

[Perd Hapley]

I guess, to put it really simply, some people are trying to claim kids are in danger because they're at home with their parents. That sounds crazy, doesn't it?

[Northwoods]

I guess, to put it really simply, some people are trying to claim kids are in danger because they're at home with their parents. That sounds crazy, doesn't it?

Only, apparently, to a rampaging fascist such as yourself!!!  Or something.

[zxcvbob]

I guess, to put it really simply, some people are trying to claim kids are in danger because they're at home with their parents. That sounds crazy, doesn't it?

The parents are at home, and don't want to be there.  They are stressed-out from losing a big chunk (maybe all) of their income.  "What are you doing here, aren't you supposed to be in school?!?"  *smack*

It's not a homeschool thing.  It's a public *or* private school thing when the schools are closed and the kids are home unexpectedly all the time.  Agree with it or not, it's not hard to understand.

Home school v. public school v. private school is a different matter, and all are avenues for abuse, but I think that abuse is kinda rare.

[Northwoods]

Dunno how rare abuse really is.  Every single female (at least older than 20) on my wife's side of the family was abused.  Everything from a one-time grope to years long sustained rape.

Nobody on my side ever was abused, to my knowledge.  But that doesn't mean my wife's family is all that unusual.

[MillCreek]

The parents are at home, and don't want to be there.  They are stressed-out from losing a big chunk (maybe all) of their income.  "What are you doing here, aren't you supposed to be in school?!?"  *smack*

This made me wonder on a related note: I wonder if there is any data on the quarantine leading to more incidents of domestic violence?

[zxcvbob]

This made me wonder on a related note: I wonder if there is any data on the quarantine leading to more incidents of domestic violence?

I have not seen any data, but how could it not?

[Perd Hapley]

The parents are at home, and don't want to be there.  They are stressed-out from losing a big chunk (maybe all) of their income.  "What are you doing here, aren't you supposed to be in school?!?"  *smack*

It's not a homeschool thing.  It's a public *or* private school thing when the schools are closed and the kids are home unexpectedly all the time.  Agree with it or not, it's not hard to understand.

You're saying we should agree that children are more at risk from their own parents than from the loving government schools they usually attend? It's not hard to understand why some people find that a troubling question.

It seems like some of you are unaware of the left's long-held belief that "the village" knows better than individual parents, even if said village is pushing the kids into transgenderism, and other leftist tripe. It would be wise to view this issue in that light.

As for the parents being stressed by loss of income - well, yeah. Are these self-appointed guardians of your children also calling for an end to the lockdowns?

[cordex]

This made me wonder on a related note: I wonder if there is any data on the quarantine leading to more incidents of domestic violence?

Anecdotally, I've heard that from all my cop friends that I've talked to.  Traffic accidents are way down (as is traffic enforcement, by the way).  Domestics are way up.  More teenage "runaways" too.  Also a lot of neighbors calling in neighbors for stupid Karen stuff.  One of my friends got called on someone in my neighborhood because they allegedly had a rooster and chickens are prohibited by the HOA.

[zxcvbob]

You're saying we should agree that children are more at risk from their own parents than from the loving government schools they usually attend? It's not hard to understand why some people find that a troubling question.

It seems like some of you are unaware of the left's long-held belief that "the village" knows better than individual parents, even if said village is pushing the kids into transgenderism, and other leftist tripe. It would be wise to view this issue in that light.

As for the parents being stressed by loss of income - well, yeah. Are these self-appointed guardians of your children also calling for an end to the lockdowns?

Some children are more at risk from their own parents than they are at school, in the best of times.  You have to be naive to not know that.  These are not the best of times, so the risk goes up.  It has nothing to do with the leftist Village People indoctrination at a lot of schools; that's a legitimate but seperate issue. 

[Hawkmoon]

One of my friends got called on someone in my neighborhood because they allegedly had a rooster and chickens are prohibited by the HOA.

Roosters aren't chickens. Roosters are roosters. Chickens are chickens.

[dogmush]

Is there any good data on the prevelence of kids being molested at schools?

It seems like every other week some 2 somthing teacher rapes one of their kids, but that could very well be reporting bias.

[cordex]

Some children are more at risk from their own parents than they are at school, in the best of times.  You have to be naive to not know that.  These are not the best of times, so the risk goes up.  It has nothing to do with the leftist Village People indoctrination at a lot of schools; that's a legitimate but seperate issue. 

Yes, this is true.  And it is also true that some children are more at risk at school than at home.

I think the salient point is that no one suggests we ban public schools because of the risk there, whereas people may suggest banning homeschooling because of that risk.  Or rather, people who want to ban homeschooling anyway will use the risk to some children as their excuse.